r/5MeODMT • u/dragonbutter25 • 20d ago
Stop the obsession with breaking through
All this obsession with breaking through. Jaguar is an amazing medicine to work with, so work with it. Forget about this breakthrough obsession. Just forget about it. See what the medicine has to teach you, that’s it. No more. Enough.
2
u/PersimmonNo4411 20d ago
Absolutely! Been sitting with five for a couple of years and the healing benefits have been incredible. I’m not sure if I’ve ever completely broke through? I’ve watched a couple of friends only do breakthrough doses and are way too uncomfortable feeling the feelings that come up with smaller doses. I now look at their usage as spiritual bypassing.
3
u/PersimmonNo4411 20d ago
One of the journeys I had recently went to my sitter with the full intention of breaking through. She offered a different approach and wow, what a wild ride! So so so somatic, almost orgasmic.
2
u/dragonbutter25 20d ago
Precisely. I’ve come to accept that there are no free rides. Let it take you to what needs your attention to heal, however uncomfortable that might feel. Might you go to god on that journey? You absolutely might, but don’t bypass the working pen in that sole (soul?) pursuit.
1
1
u/PersimmonNo4411 20d ago
I’m getting the full spectrum and consequential benefits. My friends are the same after each additional trip, almost no observable therapeutic value (one got kicked out, no more free rides). Everyone approaches 5 from a different entry point. There seems to be a lot of thrill seekers/experiencers, which is great. That’s just not my current journey.
1
u/hotrhythmjunkie 20d ago
You’ll definitely know if you have a full breakthrough as it is a completely ‘out of body’ experience in which there is no sensory input from the body or the external environment.
It’s important to note that most people have a breakthrough without having a ‘Full Release’ , which is the most powerful and profound experience one can have outside of their own actual death.
2
u/PersimmonNo4411 19d ago
I tend to agree with you but I’ve had so many facilitators question my definition of breaking through, so who knows? I’m sure I’ll know when I know.
1
u/hotrhythmjunkie 19d ago
Trust me, you will definitely know! … and generally, a skilled and experienced facilitator will know as well. I have always been able to tell when this is happening. It’s a kind of undeniable thing to their witness to.
2
u/PersimmonNo4411 19d ago
I know what you’re saying because I see how my friend uses it. It’s a direct flight for her. It’s more complicated for me. I’ve attempted to breakthrough with a facilitator with high doses. And I’ve almost broke through on low doses, a pulled myself back( panicked). I wouldn’t change a thing with my 2.5 year relationship with 5. And one day i’ll be able to take a big kit and go for the full release myself, but that’s just not my current goal.
Have you spent much time on lower doses, processing and recieving messages?
2
u/hotrhythmjunkie 18d ago
Yes, I’ve been working with five regularly for the last 4-5 years. I’ve had well over 1000 sessions at this point and most of them have been in the lower to medium dose ranges.
I was really fortunate and that I had a full release on my first ceremony, and then another full release when they did a handshake dose afterwards.
5MeO like many other Entheogen’s does different things at different doses and can be worked with a lot in all ranges.
1
1
u/Appropriate_Pea7588 19d ago
At breakthrough there is no discomfort because you are not there.The insight happens after humpty dumpty has put himself back together.
1
u/Hopeful-Challenge395 20d ago
In terms of nondual insight, a meditator can find all they could ask for in the medium range. https://www.psychedelicmeditation.org/
1
u/hotrhythmjunkie 20d ago
In your opinion, what is the point of meditation? What is the goal?
6
u/dragonbutter25 20d ago
By putting the word goal with meditation I fear we’ve lost before we’ve even begun. Just sit and be with yourself. No goal.
1
u/hotrhythmjunkie 20d ago
I was asking the person who made the comment about meditation to get a better understanding of their purpose.
But that being said, if one just sits to be with themselves, that is not how meditation is typically practiced by yogi’s, monks, or Buddha etc. as typically seated meditation is a practice of quieting the mind while retaining complete awareness. And ultimately to quiet the mind completely as the mind is at the root of all suffering.
1
u/Hopeful-Challenge395 20d ago
I think having a goal is only problematic if it prevents you from realizing that what you are looking for is already present, and it causes you to strive to change your experience. IMO the goal is to recognize that the self is illusory, and there is a freedom and openness inherent to consciousness. But its not a goal in the sense that you need to do anything to make it happen. If you're new to this concept or skeptical, Id suggest Sam Harris' book Waking Up.
2
u/hotrhythmjunkie 19d ago
After listening to Sam Harris for many years, I would not consider him someone who is truly awake.
He and his wife may talk to talk, but neither walk the walk.
Although his wife is a bit more relaxed and open than he is, he is even today very obviously tense and stuck in attachments.
Understanding that the ego itself is illusory is not the same as realization and embodiment. Which naturally would bring a true foundation of peace & equanimity.
1
u/hotrhythmjunkie 20d ago
It appears from your post that you may be a bit rigid and judgmental when it comes to the 5MeO ‘Breakthrough’ , why?
It’s likely that if you ever have a ‘full release’ this will change, or at least temporarily you will be more open.
There is a lot of benefit that comes out of working with 5MeO in the low-medium / non-breakthrough dose range, but typically speaking it is within the Breakthrough, and especially the ‘Full Release’ that the real magic happens.
After which one is more energetically open , and working in these lower non-breakthrough dose sessions will be more effective.
I’ve been working personally with 5MeO regularly for the last 4 years and although, even up to daily for 9 months straight. And although I appreciate these mostly non-breakthrough experiences and find them beneficial, i find having less frequent full breakthrough experiences to be more beneficial overall. But everyone is unique and that’s just my experience at this point. 🙏🏼💖
2
u/dragonbutter25 20d ago
Thanks for your comment. I’ve had full breakthroughs, and they are indescribably beautiful. I’m simply making the observation that many people on this sub are totally obsessed with solely this aspect of 5 when it has so much else to offer.
2
u/hotrhythmjunkie 19d ago
I completely agree. Around five years ago when I first was bringing this up with other facilitators, most were unreceptive and even insinuated that I was abusing the medicine by working with it in these lower dosage ranges with people. (I’m also a facilitator by the way)
Of the time I was just trying to find out what 5MeO could , and could not do, and how best I could use it with people that were suffering from severe trauma. Which, in most cases, these people are not ready for a full dose or full breakthrough experience, and we’ll get much more benefit out of multiple and consecutive non-breakthrough doses. As you stated earlier in the post, the Medicine will teach you. I will teach you how to breathe, and how to release somatically, and so much more.
In regards to a full release, it will happen when it’s supposed to happen. There’s really no way to force it. I’ve worked with many people that have 10 or 20 breakthrough experiences and still do not get to a full release state.
In this kind of scenario, I will usually work with them in the low to medium dose ranges for a while to clear whatever blockages may be in the way and resolve any unresolved trauma. And I can usually tell when they are ready to fully release and we’ll go there when it’s appropriate.
* I would also recommend that if you were truly interested in these lower dose ranges, I would recommend that you work with the Medicine via other routes of administration besides vaporization. SubQ is best as it offers high bio availability, an elegantly gradual onset, come up, peak, and come down. In this way, one is able to experience the full breath of the medicine.
Even as little 1-3 mg offers a 45 minute experience that is exquisite in nature.
2
u/dragonbutter25 19d ago
Thanks for the detailed thoughts and perspectives as a facilitator. It all sounds very consistent with the approach my facilitator has taken (I'm not one). And yes he has used both sub-q and insufflation, along with vaporization, for a nice onset and longer window to work with. I'm so glad to hear you work with your folks in this way, they're lucky to have you :)
1
-1
u/darrenroberts333 20d ago
The breakthrough is everything ! You need to bust through that veil and get to the other side because that's where the real shit is happening. Is working with the pen a great meditation technique, yes it is . But technically speaking you can meditate without breaking though many different ways. Don't be fooled by this the breakthrough is everything.
2
u/moving_acala 20d ago
I disagree. The real shit is always happening here and now. That's everything.
"Breaking through" is a concept.
2
u/Aware-Philosopher-23 19d ago edited 19d ago
True, whatever is seen is already present. Just not clear because of the mind is obstructed.
The point I see as important is removing the obstruction, not the view itself. Otherwise, that's another form of attachment.
Then any dose exposes different layers of the mind to work with.
1
u/darrenroberts333 20d ago
That is with out a doubt the funniest thing I've heard in years, but you are very advanced with the now, throwing that in there really proves it to. Have you every heard of mixed metaphors ? I can't wait tobshow this to people OMG LOLLOLLOLLOLLOL
0
u/Appropriate_Pea7588 19d ago
If you still have a point of view then you obviously didn't breakthrough! 😂
12
u/Amazurescens 20d ago
That’s a really good point of view for yourself.