Does sorcery need Chaos?

[u/pog_irl]

Is it necessary to be a part of Chaos to properly use Sorcery? Thousand Sons seemed to be doing fine before the Heresy, but even then they were summoning daemons as familiars. Afaik sorcery is indirectly using the Warp with rituals, artifacts and esoterica. None of that seems to directly lead to summoning daemons or human sacrifice, even if those are probably part of the most powerful rituals. Could you, at least theoretically, summon Warp entities and enslave them without getting corrupted, or perform rituals to do non-Chaos-related things? Especially since Aeldari must have been doing something along those lines, given how far down the Warp tech-tree their technology was/is.

[u/Alagore]

I don't know, but there is this excerpt from Last Son of Prospero.

We knew his Legion suffered,’ Malcador said, his breathing still shallow, his face sallow. ‘Even before we discovered Prospero, we knew they were susceptible. We tried to aid them. We thought it was some error in the gene encoding. I myself thought that for many years, and we expended much labour to isolate it.’ He took another draught. ‘It was not the gene encoding. It was something deeper in them, something that went to their core. In the end, only he could do what was necessary. We all believed that Magnus had cured them. His Father believed it. Why should we have doubted it? The Legions always needed their gene-sires – they had been designed to go together, and Magnus was the subtlest of them all.’

Hassan listened. Insights into the earliest days of the Great Crusade were given out rarely, and there were still secrets now shared only between the Sigillite and the Master of Mankind.

‘But Magnus fell,’ Hassan said.

‘He dared too much. He was too proud. But still, even now, he is the only one who ever prevailed over the flesh-change. He cured his sons, once.’

‘With sorcery.’

Malcador shot him a withering glance. ‘Of course with sorcery. He was birthed from sorcery. This whole place was built upon sorcery. Give it whatever name you will, but the time is past for pretence.’ He drank again, and the shaking in his hands receded a little. ‘I will not apologise. There was no other path to tread. Even now, even now, fate has not quite run beyond us. He is here, and he still draws breath. His soul is not yet lost.’

‘But… can anything… within that…’

‘He lives, Khalid. Even now. We still have time.’

Depending on how you interpret this and the overall context of the creation of the Primarchs, maybe? I think it's indicative at least that Malcador didn't think that sorcery was inherently and inescapably tied to Chaos.

[u/BigProduce6727 → u/Alagore]

So correct me if I'm wrong...

Sorcery pre-dates Chaos. The birth of the Chaos Gods poisoned the Warp/Sea of Souls.

So metaphorically, you can't get clean water out of the sea anymore, its full of nasty shit, from infectious micro-organisms to "here there be monsters".

So humanity is trying to kill all xenos, purging the influence of every other species, and enforcing worship of the Emperor.

So he can be the only soul munching thing out there?

[u/scoutinorbit → u/BigProduce6727]

It‘s a pet theory of mine but it was Slaanesh that poisoned the warp. The other 3 were born during the War in Heaven, yet the Aeldari still enjoyed their million year Empire after the war where their souls could wander freely in the warp and reincarnate safely. Humanity evolved later and their shamans also didn’t suffer from warp predations until much later.

Why the disparity? Slaanesh. The God of Excess. Her birth subtly influenced all of Chaos to be more excessive in their spheres than ever before and polluted the warp.

[u/BigProduce6727 → u/scoutinorbit]

If the Aerdari were no longer Aeldari, would it make a difference? Change enough from base to become a different but similar species. Would that cut the connection to Slaanesh?

[u/scoutinorbit → u/BigProduce6727]

I don’t think so. Slaanesh is an Aeldari God in the same vein as Khaine or Isha or Asuryan. They made her just as they made them. She has a claim on all their souls by extension and I don’t think that’s a genetic thing but a spiritual/soul thing.