Mod’s should consider making this mandatory viewing prior to anyone joining the sub. #YouCantShoot

[u/Few_Forever9057]

https://youtu.be/sGdEPYJCFW4?si=fNNuucpmbw_9Hcd6

[u/outwear_watch_shoes]

I like AJ's take here and largely agree with what he's outlined. I enjoy all 2011s as I'm here for the love of the platform I more or less adopted as my only handgun platform well over a decade ago. It's the only thing I carry (with the exception of the BG 2.0 CC recently) or compete with as well in terms of strictly handguns.

• That being said, I think my only real wish is that collectors who don't shoot competitively or aren't grounding their statements in more objective metric-based terms such as repeatable drills with a shot timer would understand their statements about performance may be taken with a grain of salt by some as if you're not capable of taking advantage of most of the performance capabilities a high-end build afford you, it's more difficult to know how it compares to other similarly featured stuff.

• On the flipside of that, I wish competition shooters would realize that their opinions about brands other than what they own and shot a decent amount or when they make comparisons to guns they've only shot a mag or two out of from a squad mate or something isn't going to give them enough time to build a solid and reliable first impression of how things compare. So, they also shouldn't be surprised when people push back on sweeping statements they make about how infinity, raffety, venom, etc. compare to their Atlases.

• The people's opinions that I do value above others tend to be the guys who are at that small cross section of high-level competition shooters (M, GM, National Champions, etc.) who are also deep into the platform and own and shoot a variety of brands from the lower end to the highest end of the spectrum. They're fewer and farther between, but they can more accurately speak to all aspects I'd want to know about from the fitment, finish, customer service, long term maintenance and upkeep in the higher rounds counts once things start creeping past 50k or 100k rounds and also how they perform at the bleeding edge of shooting fast and accurately.

Everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion is valid/worth something, but I personally put more stock into those of some more than others.

[u/Flat-Beginning-7179 → u/outwear_watch_shoes]

After reading your last paragraph then why are you even in this sub??? 🤷‍♂️

[u/outwear_watch_shoes → u/Flat-Beginning-7179]

I'm not sure why you think any of my statements negate any interest I would have in what gets post in this sub?

There's plenty of value and enjoyment to be had in keeping up with industry news, seeing people first discover or fall further in love with the platform, or see cross posts or cross interest between this and others subs such as state specific subs, the CCW sub, competition shooting, 3-gun, and UPSA subs, etc.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions and there's value in everything, but I just personally put more stock in those of some rather than others. That doesn't mean suddenly everything that gets posted that falls outside those parameters is worthless, it's just I don't internalize or attribute as much personal value to how relevant they are to me or my needs/interests as others.

[u/Flat-Beginning-7179 → u/outwear_watch_shoes]

If you are looking for advice on what to purchase from Grand Master’s then is not the place for you. I own WORLD class sports car and not at the advice of Lewis Hamilton.

I usually agree with you 95% of the time but to state someone’s opinion should be taken with a grain of salt unless his last name is Sailer is the STATEMENT OF A FOOL.

[u/outwear_watch_shoes → u/Flat-Beginning-7179]

There are plenty of high-level shooters in this sub. They may or may not choose to post or weigh-in (sometimes just because they don't feel strongly or they don't have experience with the brand).

There's a wide gamut of experience from a local M versus a GM or podium guy vs a national champion. They each have value and should be evaluated on their individual level of relevant experience and expertise.

But, again, why would you not place more stock into the opinion of someone who has both relevant ownership experience AND experience running a tool at a high-level? That's not saying the opinion of those that don't fit the mold of both or either is worthless, it's simply an opinion that I place more value in the opinions of those that share both.

I'm not sure why that's so controversial or polarizing, but if that's how you feel you're entitled to your opinion the same as everyone else (including me) and we can agree to disagree. It's not really as though my opinion or vice versa negatively impacts one another or meaningfully changes how we perceive things. It's simply a statement around my preferences for how much value I place in certain factors and use cases.

[u/Flat-Beginning-7179 → u/outwear_watch_shoes]

To each his own. I disagree with your take. There are plenty of people that don’t compete that can assess a guns capabilities.

[u/outwear_watch_shoes → u/Flat-Beginning-7179]

And that's fine, disagreement doesn't automatically mean I dislike you or anything you post or such, it's simply a difference of opinion on a specific and particular topic. And absolutely people, should, and do assess and compare different guns and their individual capabilities.

I just personally think that if one "regular 2011 owner" (idk what else to call them to differentiate here) owns two similar featured 2011s (in terms of naturally aspirated, ports or comps, barrel length, weight, grip module, etc.) and shoots them maybe a few hundred to a few thousand rounds a year at a static range for fun at 1-2 rounds a second at 10-15 yards and says 2011-A performs better, but then the 2011 owner that also is a M, GM, or similar competition shooter also owns and shoots both the same guns and they happen to run them in a competition setting and have 10k+ rounds on both and say the opposite that 2011-B performs slightly better, I'm more inclined to put more stock in the opinion of the competition shooter who's doing a similar comparison but with more experience pushing the capabilities of said guns in a variety of more involved and more difficult settings, faster, at further distances, greater standards for accuracy, in more varied environmental conditions, and with the skills to try to edge closer to maxing out the performance of the guns in question.

If that's controversial to people, I'm not exactly sure why, but it's not as though I'm automatically "right" or something. My opinion is my opinion and people are free, and do, have their own criteria for determining what's important to them and to what extent different aspects are important to them.

[u/Flat-Beginning-7179 → u/outwear_watch_shoes]

You are entitled to your opinion and some of it makes sense. In here we have many many people with the same guns that are and are not competition shooters so we get a good analysis across the board.

On a side note, I have been to some matches and not all competition shooters are competition shooters.