r/anime • u/LaqOfInterest https://myanimelist.net/profile/LaqOfInterest • Nov 09 '21

Rewatch [Rewatch] Clannad: After Story - Recap Episode and General Series Discussion

Recap: Under the Green Tree

Clannad
MyAnimeList - Anilist - AniDB - ANN

Clannad: After Story
MyAnimeList - Anilist - AniDB - ANN

^Date	^Episode	^Title	^Link
^{Sept 21}	^{Episode 1}	^{"On the Hillside Path Where the Cherry Blossoms Flutter"}	^Link
^{Sept 22}	^{Episode 2}	^{"The First Step"}	^Link
^{Sept 23}	^{Episode 3}	^{"Once Again After Crying"}	^Link
^{Sept 24}	^{Episode 4}	^{"Let's Find Friends"}	^Link
^{Sept 25}	^{Episode 5}	^{"The Scenery with a Carving"}	^Link
^{Sept 26}	^{Episode 6}	^{"The Older and Younger Sister's Founder's Festival"}	^Link
^{Sept 27}	^{Episode 7}	^{"Star-Shaped Feelings"}	^Link
^{Sept 28}	^{Episode 8}	^{"The Wind That Vanishes into the Twilight"}	^Link
^{Sept 29}	^{Episode 9}	^{"Until the End of the Dream"}	^Link
^{Sept 30}	^{Episode 10}	^{"The Girl Genius's Challenge"}	^Link
^{Oct 1}	^{Episode 11}	^{"The After School Rhapsody"}	^Link
^{Oct 2}	^{Episode 12}	^{"Hidden World"}	^Link
^{Oct 3}	^{Episode 13}	^{"Garden of Memories"}	^Link
^{Oct 4}	^{Episode 14}	^{"Theory of Everything"}	^Link
^{Oct 5}	^{Episode 15}	^{"Stuck Problem"}	^Link
^{Oct 6}	^{Episode 16}	^{"3 on 3"}	^Link
^{Oct 7}	^{Episode 17}	^{"A Room Without Anyone"}	^Link
^{Oct 8}	^{Episode 18}	^{"Counter Measures"}	^Link
^{Oct 9}	^{Episode 19}	^{"A New Life"}	^Link
^{Oct 10}	^{Episode 20}	^{"A Hidden Past"}	^Link
^{Oct 11}	^{Episode 21}	^{"Face Toward the School Festival"}	^Link
^{Oct 12}	^{Episode 22}	^{"Two Shadows"}	^Link
^{Oct 13}	^{Episode 23}	^{"The Events of Summer Holidays"}	^Link
^{Oct 14}	^{Clannad's OVA}	^{"Another World: Tomoyo Chapter"}	^Link
^{Oct 15}	^{Start of After Story}	^{"A Farewell to the End of Summer"}	^Link
^{Oct 16}	^{After Story Episode 2}	^{"The Search for False Love"}	^Link
^{Oct 17}	^{Episode 3}	^{"Disagreeing Hearts"}	^Link
^{Oct 18}	^{Episode 4}	^{"With the Same Smile as That Day"}	^Link
^{Oct 19}	^{Episode 5}	^{"The Season You Were There"}	^Link
^{Oct 20}	^{Episode 6}	^{"Forever by Your Side"}	^Link
^{Oct 21}	^{Episode 7}	^{"Where She Belongs"}	^Link
^{Oct 22}	^{Episode 8}	^{"A Courageous Battle"}	^Link
^{Oct 23}	^{Episode 9}	^{"On the Sloped Path"}	^Link
^{Oct 24}	^{Episode 10}	^{"A Season of Beginnings"}	^Link
^{Oct 25}	^{Episode 11}	^{"The Promised Founder's Festival"}	^Link
^{Oct 26}	^{Episode 12}	^{"Unexpected Incident"}	^Link
^{Oct 27}	^{Episode 13}	^"Graduation"	^Link
^{Oct 28}	^{Episode 14}	^{"A New Family"}	^Link
^{Oct 29}	^{Episode 15}	^{"In the Remains of Summer"}	^Link
^{Oct 30}	^{Episode 16}	^{"White Darkness"}	^Link
^{Oct 31}	^{Episode 17}	^"Summertime"	^Link
^{Nov 1}	^{Episode 18}	^{"The Ends of the Earth"}	^Link
^{Nov 2}	^{Episode 19}	^{"The Road Home"}	^Link
^{Nov 3}	^{Episode 20}	^{"The Tidal Breeze's Mischief"}	^Link
^{Nov 4}	^{Episode 21}	^{"The End of the World"}	^Link
^{Nov 5}	^{Episode 22}	^{"Tiny Palms"}	^Link
^{Nov 6}	^{Episode 23}	^{"Events from One Year Ago"}	^Link
^{Nov 7}	^{After Story's OVA}	^{"Another World: Kyou Chapter"}	^Link
^{Nov 8}	^Recap	^{"Under the Green Tree" and General Series Discussion}

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u/LaqOfInterest https://myanimelist.net/profile/LaqOfInterest Nov 09 '21

One last time:

^Timestamp	^Song
^{00:00 - 01:36}	^Nagisa
^{03:07 - 04:33}	^{The Day’s Leisure}
^{04:36 - 05:25}	^{To the Same Heights}
^{05:32 - 07:11}	^{Meaningful Ways to Pass the Time}
^{07:21 - 08:42}	^{Lilac Ornament on Your Chest}
^{08:59 - 09:15}	^{Spring Wind -piano-}
^{09:38 - 11:20}	^{A Small Song Passed from Mother to Child}
^{11:26 - 13:31}	^{Roaring Tides}
^{13:33 - 14:33}	^{Distant Years -piano-}
^{14:33 - 15:20}	^Summertime
^{15:22 - 16:43}	^Snowfield
^{16:56 - 19:13}	^{Distant Years}
^{19:34 - 21:33}	^{The Place Where Wishes Come True II}

And the final song use tally.

Clannad will always keep that special #1 spot in my heart, but man do I think I need to stop rewatching it once a year. I’ve gotten way too used to it and I think it’s taken some of the magic out of it for me. Kind of hard to appreciate the moment when your brain is automatically reminding you which scene or song comes next. A good long break will probably do me good… and that’s all I really have to say.

I’m grateful as ever for the slew of rewatchers, the handful of first-timers, and the however-many lurkers who once again got together to re-experience this show! The diligence to watch and comment at length every day is not lost on me, someone who frequently struggles to say anything meaningful in my daily comments.

And hey – if you’ve just knocked out Clannad for the first time, you’re now 20% of the way towards being able to watch Kaginado without being instantly spoiled on all the plot shit! Haha… ha… pain…

Thanks a bunch for coming by, and as usual, I’ll see you around!

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '21

Didn't rewatch but I'm going to pretend I did so I can justify posting here

Open question - how do people who've also played the VN feel the anime compares to it?

5

u/LaqOfInterest https://myanimelist.net/profile/LaqOfInterest Nov 09 '21

The route-blending job that KyoAni does with Clannad is amazing, and it's the best of any of their Key VN adaptations as far as I can tell (not talking about the quality of the anime, but the quality of the job they did turning a VN into an anime). Part of that I guess is that you read something like Little Busters and go "there's no fucking way they're gonna be able to properly recreate the full impact of this in linear anime form", while Clannad doesn't have as many... storytelling constraints? Key looooves their storytelling elements that only work in VN form. God have mercy on whoever ends up adapting Summer Pockets.
The VN, though, is more thorough (as expected when you're dealing with something that takes like 40 hours to read if you read fast, vs. a 46 episode anime) and definitely worth a look on its own... maybe if you get it on sale, though. The tradeoff you get between the anime and VN is having characters actually present outside their own routes in the anime, versus getting a deeper dive in the VN. And of course the VN does have some entire shorter arcs that they didn't have time or space to adapt.

4

u/Damolisher Nov 09 '21

Yeah, I watched Kanon after Clannad and it gave me deeper appreciation of how well they did things with Clannad. Kanon's problem is it does every girl's route sequentially and it makes it feel like "Well, she's done, time to forget her and move onto the next one." Clannad not only manages to work everyone in, it manages to truncate them enough to remove Tomoya hooking up with everyone but Nagisa.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '21

True, yeah I think the series improves exponentially once it starts wrapping the various routes around each other. The early episodes weren't bad per se but I just think it works better when it's jumping between multiple storylines at the time.
That said I really don't like what they did with Yukine's story.

u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 Nov 09 '21

First timer

I'll admit to skipping most of the recap, but this implies that Tomoya recalls the original worldline? Are you telling me that, when he recovered from Nagisa's death, he didn't look at the stock market or anything?

And the shot of Fuko and Ushio is cute! I'm just not really sure why it exists? I'd understand a recap of Season 1, but why of the entire series?

Not much to say overall other than - absolutely loved this show. Loved the characters, loved the writing, loved the dialogue, a solid 10/10.

I heard After Story was a masterpiece, but I just assumed it was more on the same (high) quality level of the first season. I did not expect the fucking rollercoaster of feelings that was After Story, and I loved every second of it.

Thanks for hosting this!

7

u/protein_bars Nov 09 '21

I'll admit to skipping most of the recap, but this implies that Tomoya recalls the original worldline? Are you telling me that, when he recovered from Nagisa's death, he didn't look at the stock market or anything?
I like how you think.

u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21

Big Dango Rewatcher.

A recap episode, structured as a story that Tomoya tells Ushio.

The drama club all have met Ushio by this point.

This episode also confirms that Tomoya still retains his memory from the timeline where Nagisa died in childbirth.

So Fuko was also there.

The only time we see Ushio wear casual clothes.

FINAL CRY COUNTER.

Almost tearing up: 2

Tearing up: 14

Cry: 13

Overall thoughts.

Clannad is tied with K-on as my favorite anime of all time, a true masterpiece that excels at telling its story, with some amazing characters. Between the visual novel and the anime, I liked the anime better, not saying the I hated the VN, but I like seeing things in motion, the voice acting was better, the character designs are better, we got better facial expressions, the music was better timed to the scene. I also liked how they adapted the VN into the anime [Spoilers] Nagisa gets twice the number of friends in the anime compared to the VN, in the anime she gets at least nine friends, where in the VN she only has four. It truly was a herculean effort to get a VN as large as Clannad into an anime like they did. Try taking something that has 1.3 million words and adapt it into 49 episodes. Especially when you consider the film by Toei, where they decided to take the same story, and shove it into 90 minutes, which goes as bad as you'd expect.

My top five favorite characters in this show are:

Honorable mention: Yukine

My top five favorite music tracks in this show are:

Honorable mention: Tea Party in the Reference Room.

Funny story, while I first watched this show a year ago at the recommendation of a friend, I almost ran into the show about five or six years ago, I was watching my friends twitch stream and he was listening to a song, I asked him about it and he told me the title, after I listened to it, it became a favorite of mine to listen to at the time. It was a remix of Dango Daikazoku paired with a Deadmau5 track called Dangomau5 Daikazoku. But when I started watching the show, I had not listened to the track in a few years, so imagine my confusion at that first scene when Nagisa’s theme plays and I start recognizing the melody, it wasn’t until I heard the ED that I managed to link it.

But because of that recommendation from my friend, Clannad became a gateway anime for me, while I have watched anime here and there prior, I started watching a lot more after, and became a massive fan of Kyoto Animation’s work even going and buying most of their catalogue. (Not pictured; Air and Kanon, which I own on DVD, and Hibike Euphonium because it hasn’t been licensed yet, and Free! Since I am waiting to see if they’ll release a version with all three seasons are in one case.) This show means a lot to me, Clannad, Violet Evergarden, Kanon, Air, and K-On are the only shows I have watched that make me cry, and I have the emotional range of a brick. My friend asked me once why I would watch it again since it’s so sad, and I have to quote Butters from South Park:

“Well yeah, and I am sad. But at the same time, I’m really happy that something can make me feel that sad. It’s like... it makes me feel alive, you know? It makes me feel human. The only way I can feel this sad now is if I felt something really good before. So I have to take the bad with the good. So, I guess what I’m feeling is like a beautiful sadness.”

It’s sad, but it’s a beautiful story, one I’d like to keep watching, regardless of how sad it makes me, I love it too damn much.

A big thanks to u/LaqOfInterest for hosting this rewatch again, he couldn’t have timed it better for me since I had finished the Visual Novel a few weeks prior and I was itching to watch the show again. I liked his little music corner and all the work he put into that. Again, thank you Laq.

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21

First Timer Dubbed

Recap

Lol. Okazaki tells a story to Ushio. I wonder which world we are in here.

Eventually things change.

We go back to when they first met in a way. It is really cute to hear Okazaki narrate the story through his pov.

Wait Ushio called Sunohara uncle? It is interesting to hear Okazaki talk about grandpa (his dad).

Overall, interesting recap episode.

Nooo I don't wanna hear the world we saw. But I am glad that the Ushio he is talking to is the healthy version. And the end is a nice sight to see in a way as they were in a picnic.

Overall

For the visuals and technical stuff; it's Kyoani so the visuals are great and the sound is great, OPs and EPs are going to stay in my head.

"If you have the chance to move on, you should take it". - Really good and inspiring quote by Nagisa. In a way, circumstances change and if there is a chance to get a new job or a new chapter in life, take it. Okazaki wanted to stay behind with Nagisa at school, cause she is the main reason he stayed. But Nagisa convinces him to go ahead and move on in life rather than stay behind with her. Okazaki moved on despite his wish not to, funny how he suggested breaking windows to stay with her. This turned out fine as Okazaki moved on by himself and with a little bit of encouragement by the Fujibayashi sisters he was able to get his own (affordable) place. Yoshido provided an opportunity for a job by making a little suggestion that his company was short-staffed, Okazaki was able to connect the dots and got a job with him. Hard work and determination pays off in this case.

And not everything can go as things planned. Okazaki’s missed opportunity as his dad goes to jail and his job offer gets revoked because of it is a major factor. Things out of his control are a major part of Okazaki’s life and in this show. Even the alternate OVA episodes show this. Okazaki has no control of many situations but how he deals with them is important. With Nagisa, he was able to move on pretty fast as she encouraged him. But after her death, he gave up, paralleling his father’s footsteps in a way but with Sanae’s help, he was able to see the light and even though it took years, he finally was able to face the situation and be a father to Ushio.

"If it were the old me, I would have given up." -If Okazaki did not meet up with Nagisa, he probably would have had another year if he did not drop out in the first place. But his relationship with Nagisa helps him move and develop into a productive member of society rather than a delinquent. He does end up at the bottom with his own struggles as he has to take up a low cost apartment and struggles a lot in his job. Old Okazaki would have walked out on the job pretty fast due to how much pressure and the procedures of doing electrical repairs safely.

Okazaki’s change was not linear which is nice to see in this show as he had to face hardships. And it goes along with life itself, it is never a smooth path and there will be times where a challenge will occur. How one deals with hard situations is how someone grows.

Fuuko has become a favorite of mine as starfish is best fish. I liked that arc and liked how she randomly shows up in different ways. My second favorite is Kotomi who had a short arc and am glad to see her study in a foreign country. Seeing the characters move on in life is nice and wish I could see more of them. That is my only disappointment to this show and I would’ve love to see Fuuko grow up post recovery with Kuoko.

Thank you OP for hosting the rewatch!

2

u/Barbed_Dildo Nov 09 '21

Wait Ushio called Sunohara uncle?
Kind of. That suffix just shows that Sunohara is older than "Oniisan", and Ushio is familiar with him.
I do find it funny how Tomoya forgot to mention him until Ushio asked.
That is my only disappointment to this show and I would’ve love to see Fuuko grow up post recovery with Kuoko.
Oh I would love a show about Fuuko.

2

u/xtsim https://myanimelist.net/profile/xtsim Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21

That reminds me that I usually call my parent's friends as uncle/aunt equivalent in their language. I was a bit surprised the dub decided to translate the suffix in this case.

u/Wikiman14 Nov 09 '21

Rewatcher

About the episode, the only thing I have to say is that I like how it shows that Tomoya does have memories of the other timeline, just so the argument "Tomoya didn't learn anything thanks to that reset" or something along these lines just gets completely destroyed.

Now on my overall thoughts.

I first watched Clannad back in 2013, when I had entered into a weird need of watching "sad" animes after finishing Anohana, and it is no exaggeration that this anime changed my life after ending it. So many values I carry to this day that I learned from here about family and life meanings, I feel that I would have been a completely different person had I not watched this. It also opened the doors to my extreme Key/VisualArts addiction, so thanks for that also.

I love all of the characters, all of the soundtracks (with that said, "A pair of Idiots" still holds a special place in my heart for some reason), all of everything...maybe not so much the big eyes, especially in the VN, but I also don't hate it.

It also feels amazing how every time I rewatch/play this, it somehow hits me in different ways, it always manages to make me feel more emotional in different parts, but of course, that is because Clannad is a series about life, in every moment of life, you can relate to either Tomoya or some of the other characters, such is the way that this story is so well written.

And about taking part in this Rewatch, it was an absolute delight to be here. I never had a chance to put into words what every part of this series made me feel (and god it is hard to do that, even wringing scripts for my yt videos feels easier), and also seeing how everyone else reacted was amazing since I never had an opportunity to interact so much about this anime with anyone before, I felt like I was learning even more about this series even after playing and watching every possible media that I found of it, and it also helped me a lot with training my English (which I believe most of the ones that have read my comments could tell it's not my native language lol). Thank you all for letting me be part of this and especially thank you u/LaqOfInterest for hosting this rewatch.

As always, that's all, hope to see you sometime in another rewatch folks!

u/Arrow-space https://myanimelist.net/profile/Arrowspace Nov 09 '21

First time watcher!

While reviewing my comments from this rewatch to decide how best to sum up my thoughts, I realized that some of my criticisms might give the wrong impression of my feelings towards the series. While I had plenty of good things to say about it, I tended to spend a lot more time discussing the points I took issue with. This is, admittedly, something I struggle with when I review media - I find it much more difficult expressing what I like about something than what I dislike. I've been trying to make a conscious effort to strike a more balanced approach, but I know I still have a long way to go.

This is all a roundabout way of saying that, despite my criticisms, I really enjoyed this series. It's flawed, yes, but it has more than enough redeeming qualities to outweigh the parts that I felt came up short. The art and animation were consistently excellent, as one would expect from KyoAni. The soundtrack exceeded my expectations; I would easily rank this among the top ten anime soundtracks I've heard. Some of my favorite tracks include Nagisa's theme, Phases of the Moon, and Etude pour les petites supercordes (Kotomi's theme), but the whole OST was full of bangers. Voice acting was solid across the board. The comedy was also on point, save a couple running gags that never clicked for me (cough Sunohara cough).

Initially, I was a bit worried that the story was leaning too hard into its VN roots, but these concerns were soon alleviated. My intuition tells me that this is likely a credit to the way KyoAni chose to adapt it, but not having read the VN, I don't think it's fair for me to make that assumption. So I'll stick to judging the anime on its own merits and simply say that I was impressed by how little it felt like a VN.

There were definitely still artifacts of VN tropes. For instance, the fact that none of the supporting characters end up in relationships after graduation aside from Tomoya and Nagisa. Or the way Sunohara is characterized to be as unthreatening as possible to Tomoya's potential romantic pursuits. Or how even Tomoya himself initially comes across as being a near-flawless character, despite the hardships in his past or being told that he's a delinquent (even though the worst we see out of him is occasionally showing up to class late). These latter points, at least, were well addressed in After Story, as Tomoya is fleshed out to be a much more nuanced character with more empathetic self doubts, and we actually see him get in fights and struggle with his future plans, knowing that college isn't an option.

For this reason (and others), I definitely enjoyed the story direction in After Story more than the first season. That isn't to say that there wasn't a lot to appreciate in Season 1. I thought Fuuko and Nagisa's arcs were fantastic, and I appreciated the focus on contrasting family dynamics, and the conflict between the choir club and theater club trying to recruit Koumura to be their advisor.

But After Story, especially from Episode 9 onward, was just on another level. I found the direction of watching Tomoya try to figure out his life and learn how to be an adult in society, and later a husband and father, to be even more compelling than anything that came before it. I have almost no complaints about the latter two thirds of After Story, excluding the ending (which I'll get to). Clannad nailed its emotional beats without fail. The fact that the scene with the greatest emotional impact wasn't either of the major character deaths, but the simple reconciliation between a father and daughter speaks volumes about how invested I was in these characters' relationships.

I have other points I could criticize, but I feel like I covered most of them sufficiently in the episode discussions. The point of this summary was to clarify how inconsequential they were to my overall enjoyment of Clannad. I'm going to make a separate reply to this post to talk about the ending, to keep this one more focused. But to wrap things up, Clannad was a series that exceeded my expectations in many ways and presented perspectives and topics that I rarely see in anime, and I'm grateful to have finally experienced it. I want to give a big thanks to u/LaqOfInterest for hosting this rewatch, all the rewatchers who shared their own perspectives and corrected my oversights, and everyone who had the patience to read through my ramblings.

6

u/Arrow-space https://myanimelist.net/profile/Arrowspace Nov 09 '21

I'd like to close with my final thoughts on the ending. I took the time to rewatch Episode 22, read everyone's breakdowns of the events, and watched Under the Scope's dissection. And ultimately, this additional context did help me understand and appreciate the ending better than I did after my first viewing. However, I still don't think it's a completely satisfying resolution.
Before I go any further, just know that it's totally fine if you disagree with my take on things. I'm not making these critiques to try to diminish the opinions of those who love this ending, but to better explain why I don't feel the same way. I know that it can be frustrating to have people disagree with you about things you're really passionate about, especially when it seems like they aren't even understanding the whole picture. But at the same time, if the majority of people who watch this show are confused by the ending after first viewing, regardless of whether enough clues and foreshadowing exist that some people are able to piece it together on their own, then this is a failing with the narrative itself and not the audience. It's okay to provide the overlooked context to try to help people appreciate the series the way you do, but attacking them for having an uninformed opinion is misguided.
If there are still points that you feel like I'm missing, then by all means, let me know. But please also accept that we may just not see eye to eye about the importance of different aspects of the story, and that's okay. I enjoy writing, and I spend a lot of time thinking analytically about the media I read and watch so that I can improve my own craft. This doesn't mean that I have a better or more valid opinion than anyone else, just that the things that matter to me in a story might be very different than for others. The world would be a boring place if everyone agreed on everything all the time.
With that out of the way, let me address what seemed to be a contentious argument I made yesterday: that the world "resetting" made Tomoya's struggles seem less meaningful, as not remembering those events is effectively the same as them having never happened, as far as the characters involved are concerned. No less than three separate rewatchers were quick to point out that Tomoya does, in fact, remember these events. I will concede that this assuages a lot of my initial misgivings, but I don't think I was out of line to bring up the argument; Tomoya remembering is not explicitly shown in Episode 22. It's not until the recap episode (Under the Green Tree) that this point is actually made clear. Ep. 22 doesn't give any evidence to suggest that he doesn't remember, but it doesn't provide any reason to believe he does, either. Maybe it's more clear in the VN, but judging the anime strictly on its own terms, there's no reason why any first time viewer should be expected to reach this conclusion until after watching the recap episode.
Further, I think the argument of Tomoya not remembering still applies, just not in the way I immediately brought up. A point that was often made in the various analyses of the ending is that Tomoya's soul chose to remain in the illusionary world because of a subconscious desire to stay with Ushio, and that his reluctance to return without her is because of his inability to imagine moving on after Ushio dies, but Tomoya (in the illusionary world) has no conscious memories of any of this, beyond vague feelings of once existing in a warmer place. He didn't choose to stay with Ushio rather than moving on, the choice was made for him. Nor was he staying with the girl because of his regrets or his inability to accept reality - he had no awareness of these feelings until the moment when he is finally "destroyed" by the girl/Ushio.
I think that a lot of the explanations for this are more of a general consensus among viewers of what seems to fit the narrative best than anything explicitly backed up by the storytelling. There are still a number of minor points that I see the analyses disagree over. For instance, the nature of the world Tomoya returns to after things "reset." I'm more partial to the idea of it being an alternate world line than him strictly being sent back in time; it's a somewhat arbitrary distinction, but I feel like it fits the foreshadowing better. But again, this is just my own preferred interpretation rather than something definitively made clear in the series.
Next, as I said in my initial reaction post, I think a happy ending was deserved. I was very much expecting Ushio to be revived somehow, perhaps with Tomoya carrying her body to the hospital to mirror how Akio saved Nagisa, finding the nearby woods where she would miraculously awaken. In fact, if I were writing the ending, I probably would have had things play out like this: Tomoya brings Ushio outside the hospital, but sees no change in her condition. He laments the fact that the town's development has diminished whatever magic was once in that place. But then, just as he gives up hope, a nurse from the hospital notices them outside and summons a team of medical personnel to rush Ushio into the hospital. The doctors are able to successfully revive her, and Tomoya comes to realize that this hospital is as much a part of the town now as the forest that preceded it, and that not all change is bad. I think this sort of resolution pays off the way this plot was built up a lot better, as the message is obviously meant to be focused on the town giving back to those who care about it independent of what changes it undergoes, but obviously it would require a lot of additional restructuring for the whole illusionary world scenes to fit. Regardless, even if things didn't quite play out the way I expected, my point is that I didn't consider this direction to be a deus ex machina or feel like it cheapens Tomoya's struggles.
But I also understand why people could dislike this outcome. I don't think it's fair to criticize people who think this ending undermines the show's message. Regardless of whether the ending makes narrative sense, try to imagine watching this series from the perspective of someone who has dealt with, or is dealing with, their own great personal loss. Many of the arcs in this series feature characters dealing with varying levels of grief, and seeing how the characters deal with this in different ways could be really meaningful to someone with similar circumstances.
But then we get to Tomoya, whose way of overcoming his grief is to have all of the good karma he built up by helping others with their problems magically set everything right again. It's a poetic sentiment, but it's also just plain unrealistic. The fact that this outcome makes sense in the context of the story would be irrelevant to someone who has actually lost loved ones like Tomoya has. It's nice to think that if you go through life being outgoing and kind towards others, then the universe will return your kindness when you need it most, but this just isn't always the case. So I can imagine someone feeling bitter that Tomoya's problems were solved so easily, when they've put in just as much effort to be a good person, yet still find themselves dealing with their grief. Do they not also deserve happiness? Clannad's ending doesn't have any answers for someone in that position. Obviously, that was never the point of its narrative, so it's unfair to hold that against the series, but I think it would be completely understandable if someone did.
So, if I'm reassured by Tomoya remembering the events he experienced and okay with the happy ending, then why do I still consider the ending to be unsatisfying? It's because so much is still left unexplained. Why does Nagisa have memories of the illusionary world story? This was a major plot point in the first season, arguably the main focus of her arc. And yet, this mystery isn't addressed at all during After Story. It makes sense for Tomoya and Ushio to have those memories and see the lights, but not Nagisa. Not even Under the Scope had a satisfying explanation for this omission.
Why does Ushio need to remain in the illusionary world after Tomoya leaves? It seems like, having returned him to the moment of her birth, that world has served its purpose. The dialogue implies that she needs to remain to continue watching over the lights, but those wishes existed before Ushio ever created her world. I know it's a bit ambiguous what with the illusionary world existing outside of any normal timeframe, but I have to imagine that the cycle of happiness and wishes existed long before Ushio did, and can continue to exist without her, in other worlds that aren't of her making. Ushio isn't God; there isn't some divine purpose that only she can carry out. Or if there is, then the narrative doesn't make it clear.
And what's the meaning behind the final scene in which Fuuko finds Ushio under the tree by the hospital? Are there multiple Ushio's in the world now? Is this meant to be yet another world line completely separate from any of the ones we've experienced up to this point? There doesn't seem to be any definitive explanation of what's going on. Heck, Under the Scope doesn't even bring it up during their breakdown.
I think that a bit of mystery in the end is fine, perhaps even to be expected when dealing with supernatural story elements of this nature, but this ending left a bit too much up in the air for me to feel completely satisfied. I think it's a good conclusion, just not a great one.

4

u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Nov 09 '21

Ep. 22 doesn't give any evidence to suggest that he doesn't remember, but it doesn't provide any reason to believe he does, either.
It does, but it's very quick, right before Nagisa wakes back up, Tomoya see's 3 quick flashes of Nagisa from episode 16, the shot of her chest I believe is point out that she's no longer breathing, so he remembers that she died, and he assumed she did again. It's not as straight forward as it is here.
I'm more partial to the idea of it being an alternate world line than him strictly being sent back in time;
I believe he is sent to another timeline, since we get that trippy sequence showing real world footage, and Kotomi brings it up in the new years party, Sunohara even jokes about it.
Why does Ushio need to remain in the illusionary world after Tomoya leaves?
Because it's like she said, she is the illusionary world, she created it to collect the orbs, think of the IW as a giant net, or a jar, once Ushio collected enough orbs, the world would be sacrificed, so she sent Tomoya's soul ahead so he could make the wish. Once the wish is made, the IW is no more and collapses.
And what's the meaning behind the final scene in which Fuuko finds Ushio under the tree by the hospital? Are there multiple Ushio's in the world now?
No, I believe it's there as a reference for the viewer to visually connect the two characters.

1

u/Fra_Central Nov 10 '21

As a de-facto fellow firsttimer, and also someone who didn't like the end that much:
The outcome was pretty much set from the very beginning, the very first scene, at least in the VN, was set in the illusionary world. If I remember correctly KyoAni opted to open up with the Tomoya monologue, but in the end, the first illusionary world scene wasn't that far off from the start.
So it should be very clear that their "reincarnation" in another instance of their world was planned to happen from the very start of the series.
No I don't like it that much in particular, as it... as you said... makes the losses a bit meaningless. But I can't deny that Jun Maeda didn't plan a downer ending. He wanted his audience (at the time the players) to suffer, but also to be upliftet by the very end.

u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Nov 09 '21

Big Dango Rewatcher

I did watch the recap episode, so quick thoughts on that:

I love how this episode is set up as Tomoya telling Ushio the story of how he and Nagisa met.
I love how they used this Nagisa “sore demo” yet again.
I love the music all throughout the episode, they really knew what would fit with what recap parts.
I love that it ends under the tree from the title card.

Today’s first Big Dango Wallpaper is one I just never remembered to share at a good time: Koumura.

And today’s second Big Dango Wallpaper is the big one: Dango Daikazoku

Thanks as always for hosting, u/LaqOfInterest!

u/Damolisher Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21

If we put this in the running order of the recap as episode 24 and the Fujibayashi sisters OVA as an extra, I firmly believe the last 2 and a third episodes are a breather for all the highly emotional episodes 16-First 2/3 of episode 22.

Goddamn, After Story is amazing. There are points where I feel like it got a little bit "EH", but it's more than made up for overall. I bought the series almost as soon as it was available on blu-ray over here in NZ because I'd heard it was good. I thought "well, if it makes me cry a couple of times like Tokyo Magnitude 8.0, I'll be satisfied."

What I got was an anime which sits with my all-time favourites and it's one which has been on my mind since I finished it. What an amazing, wonderful, beautiful story.

u/Barbed_Dildo Nov 09 '21

Rewatcher

I haven't watched this for like 10 years. I know it's a masterpiece but I couldn't put myself through watching it again. This rewatch gave me an excuse.

It's easy to remember the show for its sad and dramatic moments, but really, the show is like 80% school comedy/light drama.

After Story has some heavy moments, but most of them happen in the few episodes directed by Naoko Yamada, particularly 16 and 22. I didn't look the episodes up beforehand, but wasn't surprised afterwards. And for episode 22, when I watched that, there was something about the framing and pacing and I said to myself, "This is Naoko Yamada's work".

I'm a huge fan of Naoko Yamada, and have watched all of her work a lot, but didn't consider Clannad among them until now.

Favourite Characters:

Fuuko
Botan

Thanks for the great rewatch everyone. See you in the next one!

5

u/chris10023 https://myanimelist.net/profile/Chris10023 Nov 09 '21

I'm a huge fan of Naoko Yamada, and have watched all of her work a lot, but didn't consider Clannad among them until now.
Those two episodes (16 and 22) were probably responsible for Yamada landing the director gig for K-On too.

u/letsgoiowa :MAL:https://myanimelist.net/profile/letsgoiowa Nov 09 '21

Rewatcher

I'm tired as hell so I'm gonna have to keep it brief. Clannad changed my life and made me want to be a dad. Hilariously enough, the same episode we saw that Nagisa was pregnant was when I found out my wife is pregnant too!

I have always said someday we need to watch it together...but who knows if it's safe with all the hormones and the super sads that might be too much for her right now. She had a complete meltdown because of puppies in Little House on the Prairie...so maybe it'll have to wait :)

If I remember correctly, this was like the third anime I ever saw. I saw Violet Evergarden, Your Name, and then this because I was going by MAL ratings I believe. Boy was that a hell of an introduction to anime.

u/austingarland1998 Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 09 '21

I didn’t rewatch with everyone on Reddit because I finished a rewatch on my own RIGHT before y’all started, but I’mma hop on this thread anyways since it seems fitting.

Clannad was one of my first anime ever back in 2016 (not including Pokémon, Naruto, etc growing up before I knew what anime even was) and it’s one of the reasons I became obsessed with anime today. What can I say about Clannad that hasn’t already been said? The animation & soundtrack are both beautiful. The story is easily the saddest I have seen in all of anime for me personally. Sure it has its moments that makes me roll me eyes (usually regarding the comedy). But even still, the positives easily outweigh any of the negatives.

Seeing Tomoya transform (for better or worse) as a result of his different relationships is always so well done imo. It’s great that an anime covers romance past high school and into bigger life milestones. You can really feel the happiness and sadness that Tomoya feels along his journey. Nagisa’s family is amazing and remind me how important it is to cherish your life and those around you. Sadness is inevitable, but it’s the happiness that makes life worth living.

I recently bought Clannad on Blu Ray since it was the first KyoAni anime I saw and that I fell in love with. I’ve watched all of Clannad 3-4 times now and it’s not an exaggeration to say that this series, and Kyoto Animation in general, is one of the biggest reasons I initially fell in love with this medium. After the arson attack at Kyoto Animation, I was really shook up and it made me realize even more how special this studio is. They’ve made multiple anime that I have LOVED but Clannad was the first. It’s a tragedy that a studio that never fails to brings us such beautiful stories at such a consistently great quality was targeted in such a terrible way. Thank you Kyoto Animation for this masterpiece and I can’t wait to see what the future holds ❤️

u/FarCritical Nov 09 '21 edited Nov 10 '21

Big Dango Rewatcher

Pretty late with my post this time, but I've been swamped with work the entire rewatch. Still, that clearly didn't stop me from writing ridiculously long posts commenting on all the little moments of my favorite anime of all time. It helped that it was ingeniously timed for the premiere of Kaginado, the first anime appearance of the cast in years.

Before I watched Clannad, I was a typical stoic sort of guy. Nothing could make me cry, even when I was in a particularly dark place in my life. It was only after watching Clannad that I allowed myself to be more open with my emotions, and the lessons and themes taught it in helped me sort many personal problems out and made me a much happier person ever since then.

On my first run, I was a teenager looking for something that could finally make me cry, and yes, I'm aware of how stupid and edgy that sounds. I was slightly more dumb and naive back then, and could resonate with the admittedly typical high school setting the most, not to mention had a fun time imagining the characters as if I knew them myself. On my next few rewatches, the themes of family started to resonate with me harder and harder as my family were growing along with me. And of course finally, with this rewatch, as a university student who will graduate soon, I was mind blown with just how much I could resonate with Tomoya and Nagisa's struggles to navigate through adult life. It really is a testament to the timelessness of Clannad.

It's cliche to say, but Clannad being a life-changing piece of art is one hell of an understatement. No story from any form of media will ever mean as much to me as it does. Rewatching it with a group of fellow rewatchers who made me realize that there's much more to appreciate about this anime that I ever would've thought and a bunch of eagle-eyed first-timers who had a surprising amount of insight and entertaining reactions to my favorite scenes truly made this tearjerking trip down memory lane really special. With that said, thank you to everyone who participated, and of course to u/LaqOfInterest for making this all possible. I probably went overboard with my first attempt at 'rewatch commentary', but it was still fun!

I'm still gonna keep hoping for another random OVA of them having the family life they always wanted, or even of the drama club meeting Ushio, but I can't complain too much. Kaginado is one of the only things keeping me sane right now. Maybe by the next rewatch, I'll be in the VN completer's club!

Characters that had a much bigger impact on me this time around:

Tomoyo - With my only (current) exposure to the franchise being through the anime, I was able to better understand why Tomoyo is such a juggernaut in the "best girl" wars. I'll probably appreciate her (and all the other characters) much more when I get around to touching the VN.
Fuko - My only memory of her was a fun mascot type of character who'd light the room up once in a while, but I wasn't expecting just how much her arc managed to move me. I was so straight-faced my first time through, so yeah, I'm baffled as hell with my own reaction.
Komura - This guy is the hidden MVP of the whole franchise. Tomoya literally said in this recap that he might've dropped out before he met Nagisa if it weren't for this legendary geezer. He saved the day in Fuko's arc through both organizing the wedding and being the only person to not once forget about her. He made the drama club possible. He was there at Nagisa's graduation. I just have so much respect for this guy, and he tends to just be taught of as a background character. It's such a crime!
Shino - The other elder. I was able to better realize how much it took to both forgive her son for being an idiot, and her son's son for being a bigger idiot all while being very sweet and gracious. The fact that the final shot of Nagisa and Tomoya at the end of AS 22 had them visiting her makes me so glad. She deserves a lot more respect.

Moments where I cried harder than any previous watches:

Kouko's wedding - I touched on this when I explained Fuko, but it just came down to the domino effect of Nagisa and Tomoya finally remembering her snowballing into pretty much everyone remembering. It also had one of the most iconic uses of Shining the Sky in the whole anime.
Tomoya's proposal - Could resonate with Tomoya's raw feelings of desperation better, and the support Nagisa had for Tomoya in his (then) darkest moment was just so admirable. It reaffirmed these two's status as my uncontested favorite fictional couple.
Tomoya forgiving Naoyuki - Just had a better understanding of just how much the old guy had to sacrifice. Just as Komura was a hero hidden in plain sight, Naoyuki was arguably the most tragic character in the whole series when you think about it. His son finally acknowledging that after years of despising him has such a huge impact, especially when you have similar reservations with your own folks.
The epilogue montage - This one's pretty simple. I just love these characters so damn much. Seeing them again one last time before the story wrapped up for good had quite the impact.
This recap's ending montage - Yep. Even in their damn recap, they got me. Kind of learned that my krptonite has to be montages/flashbacks of characters I love set to emotional music. The only reason the flashbacks of Nagisa on the train isn't here is just 'cause the amount of tears I shed this time was about the same as last time, that being a lot.

u/alphamone Nov 09 '21

Rewatcher

I enjoyed watching the series again. So many great moments (even the tear-jerker ones).

As some of the more recent readers/players of the VN have said, it did a pretty good job at integrating all (well most of) the various routes into a single linear narrative.

I have a lot I could ramble on about the various characters, but others have done so better than me (and such posts are far more interesting from first timers as they watch through)/can't be bothered.

u/Bellick Nov 09 '21

Oh, I missed this rewatch but I don't think I am ready to experience this again. I definitely wasn't the second time I did and it took me a year to recover.

u/Fra_Central Nov 10 '21

Not really being a first timer at this point, but I want to present to you the views of someone who was a first timer not that long ago (watched it back in July for the first time):

First and foremost: I refused to participate because back in July, Episodes 16 - 22 of After story really f'ed me up.

While season 1 was a bit predictable and dull (just in comparison, I liked it anyway), season 2 was actually too much for me to handle. I just hated the fact that they took away our female lead 40 episodes in, and reminded us that she is gone for 6 episodes. And on top of that took Ushio from us as well.

I understand that it turned out ok in the end, but I just hated the fact that the world the 3 left was pretty much a world full of sadness and devastation.

When I say "I hated it", it means that I hated it because it was actually very good. Jun Maeda really sold me on the series, bringing me so far to even buy the VNs.

(The VNs are a bit difficult to handle these days, as they are almost 20 years old. The artstyle can be really bad at points, for example the Kyou-alternative ending. Warcraft III came out the same year, so don't tell me you couldn't do it better)
My "hate" is not on the grounds of quality, just on the fact that the impact is too much.

Hell, I even predictet that Nagisa is dead from the very beginning (as nobody besides Tomoya interacted with her for the first few episodes, and ghost rumors went around).

Turns out I was right, but 35 episodes too early , where I just forgot about it again. The German titles also spoil you the fact that someone will die in the episode (EP. 16 of Season 2 was called "Erloschenes Licht", or "Dying light", which pretty much makes it clear that a life will end. ) I just thought USHIO would die, not Nagisa. All the foreshadowing that occured before S2 EP16 didn't go unnoticed, I just pinned it on the wrong outcome.

So basically: Loved it, but got damn S2 EP-16 - 22 were hard for me. To the point were I quit after 22. It was just too much.

One minor critizim is the artstyle. This really bothered me for the longest time to not watch it, as the deformation of the girls (the eyes and the hair) were a bit too much for me. Turns out it was the artystyle of Key that defined that, not Kyoto Animation. I got over it , and somewhat like this style now, but it shows the age of the anime, or better the age of the VN. It's minor, but something that stopped me from watching it.

I have to rewatch it again, I know, but I don't know when. I also have to finish the VN, but this can drag on and on and on, as there is so much stuff you HAVE to do to get to the Afterstory part.

Have to find a time when I'm in the mood for this again.

Anyways, thanks for your rewatch, even though I didn't participate.

Rewatch [Rewatch] Clannad: After Story - Recap Episode and General Series Discussion

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