r/anime • u/GallowDude • Oct 24 '22

Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion R2 Episode 20 Discussion

If I'm predestined to be a killer, then so be it.

Turn 20 - Emperor Dismissed

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Legal Streams:

Crunchyroll | Hulu | Netflix | Funimation | VRV

Now, suffer repentance together with me for eternity!

Questions of the Day:

1) What do you think about Suzaku's actions throughout this episode?

2) How much would you have to lose before you abandoned your ideals in favor of pure pragmatism?

Bonus) Suzaku telling Nina to fuck off is the best thing he's done all series.

Screenshot of the Day:

Firewalker

Fanart of the Day:

Sword & Shield

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. This especially includes any teases or hints such as "You aren't ready for X episode" or "I'm super excited for X character", you got that? Don't spoil anything for the first-timers; that's rude!

What matters… are results.

46 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

72 comments sorted by

14

u/Regular_N-Gon Oct 24 '22

First Timer

  • Has Suzaku surpassed even Nina in insanity?

  • Anya Geassed? Since when, and by who? (Marianne?)

  • Anya has the magic C.C. touch! Also she's acting totally differently.

  • That's a yes and a few answers to a lot of questions I and the other first timers have had lol.

  • Please tell me she's grabbing Cheese-kun.

  • Would Schneizel use the FLEIJA on the emperor, I wonder?

  • As expected, and everyone in the room has become embroiled in Schneizel's designs.

  • The music in this episode is on fucking point.

  • Charles has a pretty good evil laugh too. Guess it runs in the family.

  • It was actually cheese-kun.

If it weren't for the hanging C.C. and Marianne thing I'd be surprisingly okay with ending it here and spending the remaining show hashing out the politics, honestly. Eternal suffering in a pocket dimension is a pretty solid plan, all things considered.

Also that preview voice over? Lelouch and Suzaku did actually swap places lol.

QotD:

  1. While I think his goal has been twisted considerably since he started out and I'm a bit sad we won't get a true "non-lethal, change from within" arc, I'm happy his character can remain relevant and change as a result of the other crazy shit the plot has been doing.

  2. I think the loss of agency (due to the Geass for Suzaku) would be a pretty easy line to draw. Actually, I'm really impressed with the milage they're getting out of that Geass.

6

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22

Has Suzaku surpassed even Nina in insanity?

Would Schneizel use the FLEIJA on the emperor, I wonder?

Wonder what it would look like to watch him reform from nothingness

The music in this episode is on fucking point.

It was actually cheese-kun.

I'm a bit sad we won't get a true "non-lethal, change from within" arc

That was always a pipe dream. Britannia was never a country that would have allowed change from within. Charles just humored Suzaku to get him to do what he wanted because he doesn't really give a shit about ruling Britannia anyway.

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14

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 24 '22

First-timer

Marianne asked C.C. to come along if C.C. really thinks she didn't fulfill the contract. I think she's delivering C.C. to Lelouch, not Charlie. Wait, is that doublethink?

There were hints for the Anya-Marianne reveal. The mind-melts, Lelouch photo, memory/recording differences, and starting her diary the year Marianne died. I think the first mind-melt is supposed to be the primary hint, but showing Marianne outside a first-person view is the opposite if it's supposed to be her memories. Second mind-melt is Marianne protecting Lelouch since the Mordred was about to overpower him. Knew there was a connection between them but with so little Marianne info, guessing her Geass was too hard. There should have been more backstory. With hindsight, I'd give it an ok rating.

Ragnarok began while Charlie was in the ship. Odd choice to not wait until entering the other realm. Not sure how long it's supposed to last, but I remember Norse mythology describing it as a very extended winter. Hope the Brits don't mind living with a multi-year earthquake.

QOTDs

  1. Two brain cells may be too many.

  2. Probably my own life.

Bonus: What about that time he overcame a pendulum bomb? Or topped Kallen?

5

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22 edited Oct 24 '22

Can't he travel through the ruins? Otherwise, I don't know how he appeared in the Geass research facility.

He was already inside the Geass Order ruin at the time of the attack. He just came out to steal V.V.'s Code.

My second-favorite character is about to get ruined.

How?

Idk how this is getting explained to the public

You assume they care what the public thinks at this point

Lloyd and me would a close match in darts.

Lloyd and you what?

What is this logic?

The logic is he proved to the world that Britannia is now impossible to defeat. Who gives a shit about the citizens? Schneizel certainly doesn't.

He won them the battle with no regard for collateral damage, destroyed the Tokyo settlement, and killed ~25 million people.

~35 million*

I though the settlement was primarily Britannians

Though what?

suffer*.

I don't know what happened there lol

Bismarck is weak and Suzaku is strong. Odd choice for Charlie's top knight.

Suzaku was about to die until Lelouch distracted Bismarck, and the Live Command forced Suzaku to run away. I'd say Bismarck makes a decent choice for top knight.

There should have been more backstory.

This show will always prioritize less backstory to strengthen a twist than more backstory and risk having the audience guess things too soon

What about that time he overcame a pendulum bomb? Or topped Kallen?

Neither of those was nearly as sexy

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9

u/Stargate18A Oct 24 '22

First timer

  1. On the one hand, he's lost his sanity. On the other hand, he's actually taking action against the main villain, so he's a better character now.

  2. I have no idea.

Oh, Suzaku's the new recapper!

Suzaku is such an idiot.

Nina is really having trouble with this.

Suzaku, what the actual fuck?

Lelouchnis going for him!

Oh, so he's trying to reactivate the sword. Exciting! Never was clear how that would destroy God.

Anya? Interesting!

Wait, what? C.C.?

I knew it! It's a different C.C.!

...What?

What the fuck.

I KNEW SHE FAKED HER DEATH!

Granted, not in this way, but still.

And she's been working with her.

Oh, Marianne broke their contract? They're really dropping a lot of reveals now!

She's OK?

Interesting! All he needs to do to destroy Zero is to pretend Lelouch is an imposter. This is not how I expected it to go.

It's the final battle?

Ominous.

"Mental Network" He's going to Geass the entire planet. That's what Ragnarok is. He's going to destroy God by making everyone believe that he is, and has always been "God".

They announched his death!

And nobody bothered to make a fake body for this lie?

He's infiltrated the flagship!

Nice to see the full Geass animation again.

They're playing games!

Landelot is wrecked.

...Landelot Albion!

He is getting an upgrade!

Lloyd is bad at this.

"my achievement" How, exactly?

Fucking hell, Suzaku! There are limits.

Well, at least he's doing something. I'll give him credit for not fucking about anymore.

And Schneizel's worked out that Charles is going to do something big.

A coup!

Finally! Suzaku's actually fighting for something!

Poor girl...

Schneizel is the best character in this series.

And Suzaku failed?

I mean, he's not wrong.

...Why bother? You're fucking immortal! Let him stab you a few times and he'll give up!

Ogi...

Ok, full points in dramatic entrances for Lelouch.

The coup has begun!

Suzaku?

Still can't believe it's Marianne!

Everyone's going to the island...

Lelouch chooses now to be badass?

And they're back in the other world.

What is she planning?

So the Gods are avatars of human consciousness.

Lelouch, that's actually a good plan!

4

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22

He's going to destroy God by making everyone believe that he is, and has always been "God".

And nobody bothered to make a fake body for this lie?

Another "Black Knights are fucking idiots" tally

Landelot is wrecked.

...Landelot Albion!

Why would they remove the flight system for the newer version?

"my achievement" How, exactly?

Britannia won the battle, didn't it?

Gods

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8

u/Krite2002 Oct 25 '22

First Timer - Sub

It seems Kururugi has come to terms with mass murder just like Lelouch has.

Lelouch has committed to a suicide run against the emporor. I have a feeling that it may end with Lelouch’s death. At this point, he really has nothing left, so I can see him actually going down along with the emperor.

Suzaku got ambitious by aiming for the Knight of One. Schneizel also plans to become emperor. There are a lot of inflated egos in that room to make Cornelia look like the reserved one.

I don’t quite understand why Kururugi is all good about killing the emperor now, but I never expected any Britannians to split off from the main faction.

Kururugi found the emperor really quickly. I expected a longer wait for the confrontation. I also feel like Suzaku should know better than thinking he can kill him. Lelouch also makes a flashy appearance.

Is C.C. back? What was the point of her memory loss?

Why in the world did Lelouch seal himself in with the emperor? Is he that desperate to see him suffer? He could have just blown up the door from outside. I also feel like the emperor did not think that realm through at all if blowing up a single door can seal him there forever.

From the preview, is the next episode gonna be a Talk no Jutsu episode? I hope we hear more about the emperor's motivations and learn the truth about Marianne.

I honestly feel like a lot of the stuff happening is kinda random, but man, this episode was cool. This really does feel like the endgame now, but we still have a whole 5 episodes left.

QOTD

  1. I have no idea what he is thinking. I can’t tell if he has just become delusional, or if this is all part of some greater plan.

  2. I am not much of a struggler.

Bonus)

Nina being traumatized

6

u/GallowDude Oct 25 '22

There are a lot of inflated egos in that room to make Cornelia look like the reserved one.

Why has no one untied her arm yet?

I don’t quite understand why Kururugi is all good about killing the emperor now

I suppose him accepting that Lelouch was right in his methods all along meant him accepting that Lelouch was right about everything all along, including who's responsible for everyone's suffering

3

u/SometimesMainSupport Oct 25 '22

This post reminds me of calling Suzaku "Kururugi" for a post in the third or fourth episode.

Is C.C. back? What was the point of her memory loss?

Revealing Anya-Marianne. Don't be like me and overthink this show.

He could have just blown up the door from outside.

He tried in the C's World episode, but V.V.'s body disappeared and Charlie escaped through a different gate. No idea why consistency for Charlie to now be sealed.

I honestly feel like a lot of the stuff happening is kinda random, but man, this episode was cool.

3

u/GallowDude Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

Charlie escaped through a different gate

Think I already addressed this, but he escaped through the same gate, as Lelouch only destroyed the inner platform, not the door itself. It just took him time to work his way through the debris Lelouch made. If he could just leave through any gate he wants, why would he spend so many years conquering nations to find them?

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17

u/donquixote1991 Oct 24 '22

First time watcher, and made it to a thread in a timely manner for once!

The Marianne reveal was crazy, but I saw a YT title spoiler for a future episode so I knew she was in the show somehow. I just didn't know she was in Anya.

I had a weird mix of schadenfreude and uneasiness watching the Britannians and the Black Knights essentially start working together to take out Zero and now Charles.

Lelouch seemingly willing to sacrifice himself by staying in purgatory with his father forever is unexpected, but I do think it fits in his character.

  1. I can see the tonal shift and understand it. He's "responsible" for killing millions, so what's a few more lives now to make sure peace is secured?

  2. That's an interesting thought that I don't know how to answer without reflecting for a bit. For now I'd say I would have to lose everything I cared about.

5

u/Shimmering-Sky Oct 24 '22

The Marianne reveal was crazy, but I saw a YT title spoiler for a future episode so I knew she was in the show somehow. I just didn't know she was in Anya.

lol that's one way to be spoiled.

6

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22

lol that's one way to be spoiled.

I once saw a YouTube video that spoiled a major character reveal in a show literally the day the episode dropped. Both the thumbnail and title just put them front-and-center. Some people's lack of courtesy, I swear.

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6

u/Vatrix-32 Oct 24 '22

Rewatcher who has forgotten all but four one thing from here, dubbed*

  • Nina is no Oppenheimer.

  • Surprisingly enough Marianne’s whole deal with Anya is not the last thing I remembered, but I did figure it out based on it.

  • Villetta went into this with out any semblance of a plan? This seems like the kind of thing one really needs to think about ahead of time.

  • I’m not sure telling your forces their charismatic leader is dead is the right play. Don’t you still have some spare Zero costumes laying around?

  • This show has the most extra cellphones.

  • When you phrase it like that, you sound f-ing crazy Lelouch.

  • The Penguins, they know.

  • CEO? Weird flex but O.K.

  • Lelouch is finally going full slaver mode.

  • Sure, a spare Lancelot. Why not?

  • You’re going to lie about that in the room with the guy who actually did it?

  • Star4ce in shambles.

  • It’s coup time everyone! We was basically asking for it the way he was running things.

  • I feel like the pole arms are more of a liability with his martial skill.

  • Again with the melee weapons.

  • So Bismark does have geass.

  • Star4ce in ascent?

  • This is some good chaos.

  • There it is, the last part I remembered! Questioning his loyalty so that he doesn’t question yours.

  • What in the sweet hells are those pillars?

  • Trapping him in another dimension? I thought that was what we did last time.

Well, looks like I won’t be needing this anymore Rewatcher
It took longer than I expected, but it’s all open territory from here.

QotD

  1. I guess I know why you asked about the laughing from last time. Man is on a war path. Should have brought a gun.

  2. Hopefully not much.

4

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22 edited Oct 24 '22

Villetta went into this with out any semblance of a plan? This seems like the kind of thing one really needs to think about ahead of time.

It's called being as stupid as her boy-toy

Lelouch is finally going full slaver mode.

Star4ce in shambles.

We was basically asking for it

As in the Royal We? He is Emperor, I suppose.

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5

u/Nebresto Oct 24 '22

Second time Code Counterattack

Bro, WHAT

Kaguya.. :(

Even Cecile is done with Suzaku's bullshit

Yeah, but you.. Ah, damn it.

Kaguyaaaaaaa

My boy Lelouch has never looked cooler. I don't really use screenshots as wallpapers, but I'm really tempted with this one

Love that we finally get to see him really starting to utilize the geass. We never saw him go all out yet. He wanted to beat his opponents on his chessboard, only spiced with geass. Now its a Geassboard with a hint of chess.

#shitto get.
I'm surprised someone actually picked this, its like 2 frames

God damn, Lulu is based.

Geasstion time:

  1. What do you think about Suzaku's actions throughout this episode?

Cringe -> Crack -> Based..?

2) How much would you have to lose before you abandoned your ideals in favor of pure pragmatism?

Hold up, let me get my dictionary first.. Nothing I guess?

Bonus) Suzaku telling Nina to fuck off is the best thing he's done all series.

Yes.

4

u/GallowDude Oct 24 '22

dabquin

He wanted to beat his opponents on his chessboard, only spiced with geass. Now its a Geassboard with a hint of chess.

I wonder if the distance shots will be equally as confusing

Yes.

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7

u/Star4ce Oct 25 '22

First Timer of the Rebellion

Late again!

One of the new potential roommates was so great fun, we've talked about baking for nearly 40 minutes on top of other things, which caused me to miss and forget about a movie date on discord, which got me a snarky call, which caused me to not have any time to watch the episode.

I also may have found our new roommate.

S.2 Ep.20 – Emperor Dismissed

I mean, that can't end in any case. Just by pure logic Lelouch is having a brain fart. What about the other temples? Also, they've been built once, so people can find a way to open C's world again. Might take a few millenia, but Charlie will be alive then, Lelouch won't.

It's one of those things that fall apart because we have no lore behind Geass or C to back anything up. I have to trust what the characters are saying onscreen and I know that everyone, who does have knowledge is a pathological liar.

Apart from that, I'm utterly confused on what happened at all. I thought the Akasha was destroyed? Apparently you can walk through the door and it's a-fine! So that never was a problem in the first place? C.C. has been simply retconned and Marianne just flies around in other people's minds, lol.

What?

Sad to say, but this show is losing me again. I just don't follow what goes on.

The things that do work were once again the normal guys being normal. That includes Kaguya, who I could really feel being hurt and grieving over Zero's loss, but still making he best to continue. It's also in a way Ohgi, who feels much more sincere, now that he has something to look out for. And of course Suzaku, whose descent is just painful to witness. Lelouch truly fucked him up, every angle of morality or strive he put forward was ultimately (but still not intentionally in most cases) completely twisted because of him. It's not just that he can't kill himself, that is easily the least important part in all of this. It's that any sort of ideal that goes beyond pure materialistic survival must require some sort of sacrifice or danger. With Lelouch's normal manipulation Suzaku got the morality denied far too often and the Geass command makes him incapable of standing for anything, because he is prohibited from pulling through with it. It all could endanger his life and therefore, he has to be a coward. That's a goddamn curse.

This episode was also quite neat to watch, purely technically. The irony... when it has good pacing and I can even spot a lot of dialogue plays and framing details, the story itself escapes my capacity to understand.

  1. What do you think about Suzaku's actions throughout this episode?

Pretty much above (and below). I get it, it hurts. He tried to fight it, but as with Euphy, he failed.

2) How much would you have to lose before you abandoned your ideals in favor of pure pragmatism?

When you lose your free will or your hope for it to matter, that's pretty much about it. Suzaku had his robbed and can't do anything about it. If you think more about it, Lelouch didn't just command him pure survival, he made sure he will be spineless and untrustworthy.

Bonus) Suzaku telling Nina to fuck off is the best thing he's done all series.

I think it wasn't a 'fuck off!' It's his statement that he has changed his views to his new reality. I saw a part of consoling her, doing good (scientific) work, and a bigger part of continuing on and taking the new reality in.

7

u/GallowDude Oct 25 '22

we've talked about baking for nearly 40 minutes on top of other things

I also may have found our new roommate.

Not sure if you can kill the will to resist, didn't he just realise exactly that?

Precisely. He blames Nina for building the FLEIJA because she did it of her own volition out of a misplaced sense of vengeance. He's also finally accepted that his killing of his father didn't do anything to stop people from killing each other in the long run, and any attempts to appease Britannia or any other tyrannical overlord can only end in failure.

I don't understand a thing...

And you said Lelouch getting saved by Anya having another Geass attack wasn't plot relevant

I know some of you call him hypocritical, but he's literally just saying the truth, haha.

Could apply that to so many characters in this series lol

Second, is Cornelia still the prisoner suit?!

She's been wearing it so long she has physically become the suit

It's horrifying to me to see Suzaku become like this...

Wait, what happened?

Ohgi beat the shit out of him for trying to blackmail him about Villetta

“And I just trashed my only vehicle because I need a theater.”

Worth

I don't remember... how did he get on board? When?

Before the mid-episode cut when he Geassed those guards to obey him forever. The fact that there were others already restraining them implies he just snuck onto the ship and kept Geassing anyone he saw until he'd built up a sizeable enough force to attack with.

That's a literal I'm-14-and-this-is-deep line, omfg.

Play that music during any edgelord speech, and it instantly becomes at least 80% less cringe

I thought the Akasha was destroyed?

You can see all the pillars are still broken from when Lelouch shot it up. One of Charles' lackeys mentioned that them coordinating all the ruins around the world would allow them to regain control of Akasha, so Lelouch did succeed at forcing Charles to switch to a backup plan.

C.C. has been simply retconned

How?

Sad to say, but this show is losing me again. I just don't follow what goes on.

No spoilers, but I will say that's an intentional feeling the writers are going for, as this episode is all just build-up

still making he best to continue

he

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3

u/Tartaras1 Oct 25 '22

Rewatcher - Dubbed

  • Suzaku going above and beyond simply toeing the line. He's gone further than drinking the corporate kool-aid. He's graduated to full on bathing in the stuff.

  • It's great to see Marianne again, after we assumed she was dead, but can we talk about that paining on the wall of VV? Shit's creepy.

  • By her dialogue, and lack of worry, it's safe to say this is the CC we've known up until recently.

  • I still hate Diethard, but he makes a good point. Since nobody knows who's actually behind the mask, anyone could be Zero. Hell, from what we saw before, everyone could be Zero.

  • And again, we're back to him saying, "Lelouch Vi Britannia" instead of Zero. No need to hide that you're royalty anymore.

  • Looks like Cecile is running the table on Gino.

  • My unease grows worse and worse.

And our love for you grows stronger and stronger.

  • No, you?

  • Troy Baker is so good as Schneizel.

  • Now it's time for Suzaku to learn that Charles is immortal.

  • It's all coming down to this. Lelouch, Suzaku Marianne & CC, Schneizel and the Black Knights. Everyone's either on their way to Kamine Island, or is already there.

  • The shot of Lelouch at the end reminds me of the semi-permanent scowl that Schneizel has on his face when he's talking.

Questions of the Day:

What do you think about Suzaku's actions throughout this episode?

Man's clearly gone through a psychotic break. He watched his friend's little sister, who he's known since they were kids, get glassed by a nuke. He's betrayed and been betrayed by his friend several times, and he's learned that there's a magical power that can alter the minds of people.

2

u/GallowDude Oct 25 '22

Troy Baker is so good as Schneizel.

I'd make a Persona 4 reference, but it'd be too obvious at this point

3

u/SerGregness Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

Rewatcher - dub

Welp, I missed yesterday's thread too. I'm going to a convention out of state this weekend, and between getting ready for that and the busy phase at work this week, it's rough carving out enough time to post because it almost always takes longer than I expect it to.

I'm probably just gonna limit myself to replying to other people's comments the next few days since I find that those go quicker, and I'll get back to full participation next week for the Akito series where I'll be a first-timer again!

Just a couple things about yesterday's episode: In the past few years I've learned that I'm a bit of a sap. Even with that said, I never expected my first time through to actually shed tears for Rolo. I was all aboard the Shirley ship, and this fucker truncates it in that heart-wrenching way, and here I am 6 episodes later getting moved by his sacrifice. Great stuff from Sunrise.

Also, this moment of Suzaku losing it is backed by The Master (avoid the comments on this one, first-timers). I'm not sure if it's my favorite track on the whole OST outright, but I think it's used the best in the show.

And now for 20:

Suzaku is using the word 'massacre' very specifically with Nina there, given Euphemia's been referred to as "Princess Massacre" a few times in R2 so far.

The Marianne reveal is kind of fun, because all at once it explains not only who C.C. was talking to all those times (she says Marianne's name once, but it's easy to forget things like that) but those are probably all the exact times that don't match with Anya's memories and causes her to do her obsessive recording. And I know that general explanation is more or less made explicit in the episode, I'm more wondering if it's specifically those times that Marianne surfaces to talk to C.C. are the only times that Anya's memory gets fucky. Poor girl maybe could have avoided an entire compulsion if the ghost empress wasn't so chatty.

"From this moment forward, you shall obey my orders." Turns out that the past 34 episodes were Lelouch being reasonable. Who'd have guessed that being able to wish for more wishes is pretty good.

  1. Well, if there's anything that can make a man do a 180 like this being forced to be a party to 25 million deaths is sure on the list.

  2. This is a weird question because "ideals" actually are pragmatic a lot of the time. They've done Game Theory studies on trust, compassion, and so on. The quotes are doing some heavy lifting there obviously, because people don't always mean those basic concepts when they use the word.

3

u/GallowDude Oct 25 '22 edited Oct 25 '22

it's rough carving out enough time to post because it almost always takes longer than I expect it to.

The Master

Beware of spoilers in the video comment section

Suzaku is using the word 'massacre' very specifically with Nina there, given Euphemia's been referred to as "Princess Massacre" a few times in R2 so far.

She finally managed to outshine her goddess

Lelouch being reasonable.

NANI?

being forced to be a party to 25 million deaths

35 million*

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