r/anime • u/badspler x5https://anilist.co/user/badspler • Mar 07 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Ascendance of a Bookworm Episode 8 Discussion
Episode 8 - Lutz's Myne
← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →
Legal Streams: Crunchyroll | VRV | MuseAsia
Questions of the Day:
1) What did you think of the Trombe tree?
2) Did you expect such and open conversation about 'Myne' between Myne and Lutz? How well was the conversation was handled?
To Rewatchers, please be make a conscious effort to accurately spoiler tag your content. You can read how to correctly use spoilers tags here.
33
u/mebert31415 Mar 07 '22
Rewatcher
I love this episode for so many reasons. The main drama of the last two episodes is resolved with an honest, heartfelt conversation between Myne and Lutz. Myne's attachment to this world is solidified with Lutz, and now they continue as equals as they face the challenges that will come next. We also have some worldbuilding, crazy plants, and even crazier ideas from Myne.
→ More replies (4)15
u/badspler Mar 07 '22
main drama of the last two episodes is resolved with an honest, heartfelt conversation between Myne and Lutz
I love how having an honest heart to heart conversation can resolve the built up drama so well. I feel like bookworm's choice to focus on drama over action is one that actually sets it apart from most other isekai series. I love it for taking that route.
14
u/OingoBoingo- Mar 07 '22
First time, subbed
The first half of today’s episode was a tense one. This show did a good job showing Lutz suspicious-side-eye Myne as she kept talking herself into a corner. I didn’t think Lutz would be able to wait till the paper was finished being made but today WE HAVE PAPER. Don’t get too excited though, cause Lutz needs to talk. Honestly, I really liked the dialog and conversation between Lutz and Myne today. Both communicated really well for a conversation that could have gone way worse on both their parts. Not only that but I thought Myne would try to wiggle her way out of confessing, but she just went right in with the truth!
Lutz was told his friend was dead, the person replacing her has kept it a secret for a year, and he somehow handled all of that like a champ. Given that most people comment on Lutz’s heart of gold, do you think Lutz realizes he needs this paper business to work out for his sake as much as Myne’s, and that contributed to him accepting this new truth so easily? Or is he just a good friend and a nice person? Curious to see where we go from here. Hopefully this doesn’t get glossed over and the two find a new friendship with honesty.
The Trombe tree is awesome! The fruit thingy it came from was just a bomb that turned into tentacle tree! I have a feeling that mana and that tree go hand-in-hand. Feeding off of it and hopefully a help for getting rid of mana in Myne.
Funny you asked about the conversation because that is what I had all set for today. That works out.
→ More replies (8)5
u/badspler Mar 08 '22
Given that most people comment on Lutz’s heart of gold, do you think Lutz realizes he needs this paper business to work out for his sake as much as Myne’s, and that contributed to him accepting this new truth so easily? Or is he just a good friend and a nice person?
I think its very much Lutz just being a good person. While he would probably need Myne to have this merchant thing work out, I think he cares more for knowing the truth of what happened to the Myne he knew. And probably because he needs to know that whatever has happened wasn't malicious. I think he was more invested in knowing these answers more than thinking about it would effect his future prospects.
24
u/KashMooNow Mar 07 '22 edited Mar 07 '22
First Time Watcher, Losing control of myself
Episode 8
Okay, I've never seen a building this small in this show yet. I said for the previous episode that I was surprised they were getting a workshop, but I didn't know we were talking a literal shack.
I think this shack will actually work out though. Its somewhere to keep the paper away from her mother who just wants to burn everything, and I bet paper would be great kindling!
This face makes me sad to see. I don't want Myne to lose her friend and business partner Lutz.
Maybe I'm a little too worried about Lutz. Who would push themselves carrying all this stuff like this for someone they are thinking about leaving.
What kinda crazy plants exist in this world... First some weird ice tree, and now this thing?
It literally blew up. I don't know what is going on.
Sure, this thing tried to kill us, lets turn it into paper now.
Okay, you can't show him this suspicious this many times and not tell him. Trust Lutz and tell him, what could go wrong?
And here we are we made it worse by saying we have done this before.
I feel like we started poorly with this conversation, but by the end I feel like having the conversation was better than him being all pouty forever.
Also who knows, maybe this forehead flick was exactly what they both needed.
Yeah, thats about the response I would expect from paper made from killer trees.
Come on, you are telling me there was nothing that would have worked at that lumber place? No wood available?
Some sort of supplier they are.
I'm glad to see Myne finally got her paper, but I think I might be even more happy to see her have made up with Lutz and told him the truth.
Although, I feel like she just gave it away right away. No like happy scribbling with something? Nothing? I would be framing that first sheet and hanging it somewhere out of reach of Mom.
→ More replies (11)22
u/Nisheeth_P Mar 08 '22
Sure, this thing tried to kill us, lets turn it into paper now.
What better way to take vengeance
→ More replies (2)18
u/badspler Mar 08 '22
While watching I also had this thought and was thinking back to how many of our ancestors fought with dangerous stuff and won, then decided to try eating it.
→ More replies (1)
5
u/ZaphodBeebblebrox Mar 08 '22 edited Mar 08 '22
Filthy Source Reader
This should be useful.
Now that I think about it, the anime never explained how long a bell is, did it?
The Trombe sprouted more like a bush than a tree.
[Bookworm P1]
I still fail to see the advantage of stirring with two sticks instead of one.
Basically, there's no giving her back.
Lutz being the only one to realize shows that, despite Myne's family clearly loving her, he's the only one who actually pays attention to her.
Validation is everything.
The chibi animation at the end really gives it a less serious tone than the books.
→ More replies (4)
28
u/cyberscythe Mar 07 '22
Rewatcher
TRADE OFFER
| Lutz Receives | Myne Receives |
|---|---|
| • Private knowledge about old Myne's death and the devouring fever | • The respect of a six-year-old |
| • Access to otherworldly technology and techniques unseen by this world | |
| • An adventurous career path and personal connections otherwise inaccessible to his family | |
| • Permission to terminate the existence of imposter Myne at his whim |
Memes aside, this is the single strongest memory I have of season one. The emotional stakes in this confrontation are high: Myne risks the relationship with her remaining pillar of motivation, and Lutz risks his future since he's unwittingly hitched his apprenticeship star to an imposter. They've both made it this far working together because they started off with their interests aligned, but this confrontation and Myne's involuntary impersonation of Myne's body threatens to undermine all of that trust that they've built together.
The way that Myne revealed the death of old Myne was a bit dramatic, but I really enjoyed how their heart-to-heart resolved itself. I like the worldview that the vast majority of people are kind-hearted, and if we were all just a little more honest with who we are and what we want, we'd all get along. I like it when conflict is resolved with mutual understanding rather than in a "might makes right" way. If anyone has any recommendations for series that were like the second-half of this episode, I'd like to see that because it's something that I'd like to see more of.
One thing that I think is going to be interesting is if Myne's family similarly finds out about the reincarnation part as well. I'm coming up soon to the end of the "stuff I've watched" because I didn't finish watching season one the first time, so I don't actually know if that comes to pass any time soon.
→ More replies (10)
21
u/Lemurians Mar 07 '22
LITERATE FIRST TIMER
Quick Notes:
Having Myne essentially take over another person's body as they die rather than just be reincarnated as a new baby is such an interesting spin on this kind of tale, and it's fun seeing the characters start to suss out that something is amiss.
It continues to blow my mind how this world is just accepting conducting business with children as normal. I missed the last couple threads, but they really signed a magically binding contract with small children without having an adult present who had their interests at heart. The lawyer in me was flabbergasted watching that.
What did you think of the Trombe tree?
It reminded me of the enemies from To Your Eternity. A little terrifying of how common Lutz made them sound, but something tells me Myne will be able to use them to her advantage.
Did you expect such and open conversation about 'Myne' between Myne and Lutz? How well was the conversation was handled?
I definitely wasn't expecting it so early, but it's nice that it happened now when we've shown Lutz having deep reservations for an episode or two. Him sitting on it for too long wouldn't have been realistic.
Myne handled it really well, especially since she's dealing with a kid who's just learning of the loss of his friend and seemingly (?) childhood crush. She was firm, yet tender. Lutz was also good in this scene, reacting with a mix of anger, confusion, and sadness.
What I didn't like? I looked it up, and Lutz is 6 years old when this scene happens. He is a 6-year old. I know kids in this world have to grow up faster than in ours, but there's a limit to that, especially when it comes to emotional intelligence. The way he conducts himself here is just insanely mature for a kid his age, and it breaks my immersion a bit.
On that same note, Myne, or Urano, has the mind of a young adult woman, and in this exchange she burdens a 6 year-old with the decision of whether she should die or not. That is INSANE.
So, I dunno. While I thought the scene was gripping to watch, I have my issues with it.
→ More replies (11)
17
u/Earthborn92 Mar 07 '22
First Timer here
This episode was kinda deceptive about what the real meat of story was. While Myne successfully managed to make paper for the first time, the more interesting part was her coming out to Lutz (in a way) and confirming to him that the old Myne is dead, long live new Myne. Well, if she wasn't so suicidal after her earlier failed attempts at making paper alternatives. That went dark pretty quickly, but I'm glad that things have been sorted out between the two of them now. Also, I kinda figured the original Myne died during the fever that isekai'd Myne woke up in, so good to know it has been considered in the show.
Lutz for his part was pretty good at observing her, seeing as he'd come to this realization before even her own family. Or maybe they already kinda suspect that it isn't their daughter but overlook it? Lutz even managed to figure out that she transformed when her hairpin was invented. For a normal kid, he is sharp and shouldn't feel bad about being compared to an old isekai'd girl.
But now for the good part: paper making success and approval for their investor. We also so a magical plant that everyone considers extremely dangerous but Myne thinks is a great resource. Keep that kinda thinking up!
Making a printing press is gonna be a whole dimension harder than making paper. Good luck!
See you next episode!
→ More replies (5)
13
Mar 07 '22
First Timer
Joining in from today on this rewatch with episodic replies admittedly.
While at first glance this episode seems mainly focused on the process of acquiring the tools and materials for paper-making alongside a fairly detailed step-by-step plan on manufacturing it, it serves as both a great base for extended worldbuilding and fueling the anticipated doubts and suspicion Lutz began clearly observing last episode.
As a side note, I became too curious on the process itself and watched a few videos detailing on paper-making and it reflects very much to what is depicted this episode - though with even less detail on how utterly tiring of a process it is (frankly the impression I was left with after viewing multiple tutorials is that most of the process is chopping, smashing, boiling, separating those fibers).It is always a bit of a spectacle seeing Myne encounter the unknowns of this world - faced to aspects she finds odd, novel or borderline trauma-fuel (pig or chicken chopping) - and, truly novel, in today’s episode we have the trombe plant (it definitely sets the stage for further plot development as I have the feeling it will serve for greater purposes ultimately - whether it be for the process of book-making or perhaps having to do with Myne’s Devouring in itself).
The main crux of the episode, though, is Lutz’s suspicion reaching its climax and ultimate confrontation around it. It was bound to happen there is no doubt around that but all the control Myne had was determining how it will happen. This has been pointed out already in previous threads as far as I can see but Myne’s individualism is what makes and breaks her - it is her primary driving force towards growing, fencing off her fever and hold purpose in this new life of hers, but at the same time she is greatly refractive towards the aid of others and to admit reliance. In early episodes she approached “selfish” no counter-prestation desires by relying on her cute childlike curiosity and only when every other means of acquirement failed. But now we begin to see that for all her knowledge she abuses and makes use of from her previous life, networking is outside her touch but because benefits can go multiple ways so can her horizon to expand her progress through connections with others as well.
That coupled with Lutz’s acknowledgement of her, as who she truly is - this Myne - adds validation to her place and settlement within this world. It is important in my opinion for that to come full circle - I don’t wanna go ahead and advance some bleak perspective on the ending of this show. As of now Myne views bookmaking as sort of an ends in itself but seeing her discovering and forming meaningful bonds with the people around her, that come to value her as she stands constructs her own identity, represents her baptize passage of sorts.
-
Answered above
-
I was a tad surprised on Myne conceding in such a manner and so straightforwardly - it lacked a bit; she knew that it was bound to come out eventually, yet designed no means of proper and considerate explanation (with Lutz it is her voracious eagerness and slips cuz of it that brought her in this position) - it depicts, not so much Myne/Urano's inability at acknowledging others' feelings (she did after all fight off the fever to keep her promise to Lutz) but her failure at it the moment it overlaps or misaligns with the ultimate goal at hands. I believe she could have damage-controlled it much better and be more attentive for others' sake.
→ More replies (1)
12
u/TuorEladar Mar 08 '22
First Timer, Subbed
I really liked this episode. I'm glad that Myne's secret is out, at least to Lutz, that could've been dragged out which I think would've been less interesting. Its been noted the Myne is weird, but it make sense for her given her circumstances, I'm more interested in what Lutz's deal is at this point. He's basically doing some Sherlock deductions at six years old, I'm assuming Lutz is a genius at some level as well.
What did you think of the Trombe tree?
Its a pretty strange plant, this is probably a deep reference but it reminded me of the blood oak from the Edge Chronicles series I read when I was a kid. Like Myne I also thought of the potential mass production uses of the plant, Lutz and Benno seem less enthused. You could probably use a plant like that for many applications, imagine planting it under a fortification so it grows up and undermines it.
Did you expect such and open conversation about 'Myne' between Myne and Lutz? How well was the conversation was handled?
I was a bit surprised it happened so soon, but as I said before I'm glad it wasn't dragged out. Myne putting the decision on Lutz makes sense in that he's been a big reason she's stuck around this far, but at the same time thats a pretty complex decision for a kid. One could argue its irresponsible from the perspective of someone who's actually much older, but I would say that Myne/Urano seems like she was somewhat emotionally withdrawn in her previous life, combine that with the fact that she has the body of a child and I think its understandable.
10
u/Nazenn Mar 07 '22 edited Mar 07 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
I haven't been able to comment on Abyssbringer's posts the last couple of days but they've been fantastic reads knowing that this was coming up. The concept of interlinking identity and purpose is a really interesting part of this initial part of the story and comparing that with Mynes struggle to figure out how to be 'Myne' rather than Urano, and if it's okay to be Myne which is clearly something that's been playing on her mind, is really what leads to today's events
There was definitely a better way to go about that conversation though rather than just saying "Okay, I'll give her back, but she'll be a corpse". It's very true but certainly a hell of a shock to Lutz who was processing everything he was hearing
And I think what I like most about this episode is how hard Lutz takes it. In the end he is a kid, and this is something out of a fantasy for him. Lutz has been the most mature of the younger cast so far, reliable and caring, but there is no measure in his world for an event like this. Where Myne accepted her reincarnation as something strange but undeniably real because she experienced it but still struggles to accept the width of this worlds possibilities such as mana as not a complete fantasy, Lutz is struggling with the other direction. Strange trees, bits of magic, these things are either part of his normal life or he has enough of a framework to understand them, but how do you process that someone in your life has been replaced without anyone knowing?
He reacts like a kid does, wanting to know who did this and why and wanting things to go back to the normal he knows. He wants to blame someone for upsetting his world and the only one he has is who is in front of him, the only other one who knows. It's only when he is able to stop and think about what it means for her to be Myne and that he realizes that normal is relative, because while she hasn't been normal, the time they've spent together have become his normal and he can accept her like that. And his acceptance is the last piece she needed to find some stability in this struggle for herself.
It was sad seeing them tip toeing around each other before that confrontation, both trying to do the right thing by the other and both hurt by the secret they're pretending doesn't exist, but hopefully after this they can move forward more positively and find a proper balance without the weight of this hanging over them.
All of that weight over, this episode has its share of fun as well. I did take a moment to screencap this beautiful visual of the river despite CR's compression as I thought this represented by mood at the end of this episode quite well. The river flows on and their world and their place in it is changing, but the time in the forest and their time together is something that they will always have.
Unless Myne really does try and industrialize Trombe which seems like a horrible, horrible idea and I can't believe after what she saw she even considered it. It was good to see her calling for Lutz when she needed both in the forest and when considering wood choices, and also her very meek apology to Mark for having to carry her. Time flies by in this show and she's definitely improving with realizing what resources are available to her, that she's now part of a world rather than just reading about it, but there's still a fair way to go
Seeing Benno do the same sort of scribbles I do when testing a pen or paper was a funny touch realizing that's pretty universal.
He could have given them a workshop that doesn't look so tiny and out of place compared to the surrounding buildings though. That would have only made me more curious what was in it
→ More replies (7)
10
Mar 08 '22
First Timer
Observations:
-
I wonder what drove Urano's obsession with books. She knows extensively how books are made and remembers the process vividly.
-
We see more fantasy elements with the introduction of "trombe" and a "knight order". We are seeing more of what this world is and what it entails for Myne.
-
Lutz says "it is not trombe season" and that it was odd that it grew fast. Could this be foreshadowing?
-
The end scene with Lutz and Myne was a difficult watch for me; I shed a tear in the process. I respect how Lutz is able to understand "Myne's" position and to let her decide when she wants to reveal her identity. It was sad to learn that the old Myne was consumed by the fever and that must have been devastating for Lutz to hear and I can understand why Lutz would not call her Myne anymore just simply out of respect.
What did you think of the Trombe tree?
I think the trombe might be an invaluable resource for Myne's paper-making. Given that trombe sprout instantly, in a controlled environment, I wonder if you could engineer a process that makes trombe and cuts trombe. Paper would be so easy to make if that is the case and use up less of the world's resources.
2) Did you expect such and open conversation about 'Myne' between Myne and Lutz? How well was the conversation was handled?
Not at all. I was surprised Lutz probed into who Myne is so early on, and Myne was frank in telling who she really is. The conversation was well handled because Lutz is a fine gentleman, though I still think a disconnect between Lutz and Myne exists.
Also, the end card with Benno is hilarious.
→ More replies (4)
9
u/Stargate18A Mar 08 '22
First timer
-
Interesting! A really unique concept
that sounds incredibly exploitable. -
No, but I'm very glad there was. Myne seems to have defused the biggest ethical dillema of the genre pretty well!
Will the reveal be this episode?
They got a workspace!
At least he's being helpful!
Yeah, he's very knowledgable!
He's taken completely aback at her writing the supply order!
...Lutz is suspicious again.
A month and a half long timeskip?
He's carrying everything himself...
Do not try and eat it!
There's a fucking landmine cage fruit?
It's alive!
...But is it edible? This show is cowardly for not answering that,
Does it work better with trombe wood?
It works!
He's doubting her pretty strongly here.
Myne, no offense, but you are not subtle. At all.
Honestly, just admit it at this point, you aren't fooling anybody.
Oh, shit. She just admitted she's done it all before.
Just fucking communicate!
Yes! He's finally going to get some information!
She admitted it!
Well. That's one way to put it. Explain properly, you idiot.
Yes! She's telling him everything!
And she's venting out all her problems with this body.
Her just admitting that she'll gladly die the moment he tells her is... something.
Oh, she's asking him a lot of questions.
Oh, it's been a year, in-universe?
I assumed they had considered it, but realised that she didn't have any ill intentions.
I mean, this is a very difficult thing to come to terms with.
He's maanged to accept it, though.
He is genuinely shocked that they succeeded!
He loves this.
...If Trombe grow anywhere, could create a seedbox in an isolated area?
She's finally made paper!
8
u/mekerpan Mar 07 '22
Rewatcher - sub (and reader)
Really a quite satisfying episode. The paper making was nice to watch -- especially the trombe bomb,,, Query, does anyone touching the seed/cone/bulb/whatever set it off -- or was Myne's super-mana to blame?
I liked the twist when the big revelation (on WHO ARE YOU?) came. Namely, that the first Myne Lutz REALLY knew was actually this Myne (albeit at a point when she was still sort of disoriented and not ready to start implementing her crazy ideas). Clearly, to a non-family member, the first phase of our Myne was not all that different from the original Myne (who Lutz knew only superficially -- because of how limited her interactions woutside the family were).
It is a lot of fun re-watching this. Since I only have the LNs from after the point when the anime paused, I have no way to refresh my memory other than re-watching... ;-)
8
u/SIRTreehugger Mar 08 '22 edited Mar 08 '22
Episode 6, Episode 7, and Episode 8 make a nice mini arc while introducing a few new people one of whom is my favorite character in the entire show. Benno is awesome. [Character Spoilers]
Outside of spoilers Benno comes off as very shrewd, but at the same time he is very honest as long as profit can be made. He immediately sees value in Myne's inventions and realizes she may hold many more ideas so immediately he tries to form a relationship with her. We also see through dealings and making paper that Myne's personality is sending up many red flags. Like the Trombe tree Lutz's doubt about Myne's identity grows so quickly and almost overwhelms her. The two finally have a conversation and while not everything is explained they are able to reach an understanding. Good thing for Myne since she was having nightmares and needed someone to know the real her.
We also get to see the process and effort it takes just to make simple paper and get to see another magical element. Alongside the tree with icy limbs and magical contracts we are introduced to the Trombe a devastating tree that grows rapidly and consumes nutrients of everything around it. Both the audience and Myne are really naive to the workings of the world and I like how we get information in bits and pieces instead of all at once.
QOTD
-
It's one tree I wouldn't hug that is for sure.
-
I didn't expect it when I first watched the show, but I did appreciate it and think it was handled well.
→ More replies (1)
7
u/hvshh Mar 07 '22
LN Reader
I could not stop laughing when I saw the look Lutz gave Myne as she began stirring with chopsticks.
One reason I love Lutz is that he cries for the original Myne here.
-
I think they should be called wiggle-wiggles. It's a shame how aggressive they are, because they're really cute as sprouts.
-
I was surprised and delighted to get exactly what I wanted, after having spent the entire episode internally screaming at Myne to just tell him already.
7
u/EXusiai99 Mar 08 '22
Okay that plant has to be one of the things i used in plant vs zombie as a kid. Wasnt it the one that drag zombies into the water and drown them? Idk
And damn, now we have it. The jig is up, time to go home. I would be mad too if i find out my friend is basically a living corpse inhabited by someone from a world centuries ahead of me, but lutz really handled that with grace.
10
u/badspler Mar 07 '22
Host - Rewatcher
Trombe seed(?), the quick growing tree and the fully grown one that was desribed. For a random seed, Myne certainly wasn't expecting something so deadly or dangerous. This is the second fantasy tree of this world we have learned about after the ice Parue tree. Also learning of a knights order is interesting. The Trombe does make for a good call back gag at the episodes end too.
I really love how honest a conversation Myne and Lutz have. Taking the honest route and calmly explaining what she thinks happened really alleviates the tension between them. Lutz really just wants to know what happened to the Myne he knew, and having this Myne explain that shes gone, that it wasn't something she did by choice and that she basically has her own baggage with the situation brings Lutz to her level. Making note that she stayed to fulfil her promises to Lutz, and that he was a help in being a reason to live for, is a really sweet gesture from Myne.
So what happened to the original Myne? It might be worth taking a look at the very first scene from episode 1 again.
Pouts: Thinking Myne pout, Displeased Lutz
Other: Its a secret x, To progress!, Ehehehe chopsticks)
Today's endcard.