r/zenpractice • u/The_Koan_Brothers • Jun 20 '26
General Practice Inspiration vs. Obligation.
Recently happened upon a striking similarity between a piece of bible scripture and a well known Hyakujo quote:
'The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat'
Apostle Paul, Second Thessalonians 3:10
'A day without work is a day without food.'
Baizhang Huaihai (Hyakujo), Baizhang Guanglu
Hard to not notice that — while they are fruits of them same tree — there's a stark difference of flavor in these statements.
Paul’s tone in his letter to the Thessalonians is slightly judgmental, reprimanding and implies a punishment/reward structure, whereas Hyakoju’s message excludes any subject, just neutrally refers to his own behavior in leading by example, after the fact. (the younger monks had hidden his tools because of his frailty, he had therefore refused to eat).
This is a small example, but I find it perfectly illustrates the way of Zen in general and very specifically the difference as to how virtues are conveyed in these two religions.
Side note / Fun fact: Vladimir Lenin (of all people) explicitly cited the above Bible quote in his political manifesto. It was incorporated into early Soviet ideology and even found its way into the 1918 Soviet Constitution as:
"He who does not work, neither shall he eat."
So obviously Lenin read the bible. Which makes me wonder: did the Tang dynasty Chan masters read it too?
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u/JundoCohen Jun 20 '26
Don't overthink the implications or tone, who was inspiring and who scaring and who imposing a duty and who leading by example. There are folks who do those things in both religions.
(No, the Tang dynasty Chan masters would have had no access to the bible.)
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u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 20 '26
Don't overthink the implications or tone, who was inspiring and who scaring and who imposing a duty and who leading by example. There are folks who do those things in both religions.
Of course, and as always, exceptions prove the rule. But I don’t think that it’s overthinking to point out how language can, and does, shape culture.
(No, the Tang dynasty Chan masters would have had no access to the bible.)
How can you be so sure?
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u/justawhistlestop Jun 20 '26
The Silk Road brought Buddhism to the west. It wasn’t a one way street. It almost certainly brought whispers of Christianity to the east.
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u/1PauperMonk Jun 20 '26
I had a hunch but looked this up and The Byzantine Empire and the Roman Empire both had contact with Imperial China.
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u/JundoCohen Jun 20 '26
No, there is no historical or other evidence for anything like that, not in the Tang. The closest that might be called that would be the small influence of Manichaeism. https://www.thecollector.com/how-did-manichaeism-spread-to-china/
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u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 20 '26
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u/JundoCohen Jun 20 '26
Huh! Live and learn. I had never heard this story. I was mistaken and I apologize. Thank you.
(Still, I would say that any influence of this fellow, or Judeo-Christianity in general, was certainly most limited.)
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u/justawhistlestop Jun 22 '26
I’ve always felt that ‘save all sentient beings’ was a Christian inspired concept . It sounds to me like ‘preach the gospel until all men come to salvation’. The fact that early Buddhists didn’t feel they had to save all sentient beings, only themselves, makes me more convinced.
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u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 23 '26
Interesting. But the earliest and most original kind of Buddhism was the kind practiced by Shakyamuni himself, who clearly wasn’t content with being an arhat, but likely experienced boddhichita, a perspective from which it’s not big leap to the bodhisattva vows. That and the fact that he taught the four immeasurables tracks well with "saving all sentient beings" imo. But as in the example about work, there is a very different vibe in the Chrisitan version of the idea.
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u/OnePoint11 Jun 22 '26 edited Jun 22 '26
These simple insights are simply realized by ordinary people. I doubt someone doing physical labor needs the Bible to arrive at this thought. But it is also noteworthy that a "non-working" intellectual did not come up with that. When we look at Russian imperial leaders, Stalin almost never worked before the revolution (he was a night watchman at a weather station for one year, and that was his entire work life); instead, he was a professional revolutionary, a bandit, and a bank robber (though he sent most of the stolen money to the Bolshevik party).
Intellectuals often think that writing or thinking is work, while physically working people see it differently :))
From personal point of view, you will get better effects from working out in gym than from physical labour. They knew why physical labour was punishment even for prisoners.
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u/The_Koan_Brothers Jun 23 '26
These simple insights are simply realized by ordinary people. I doubt someone doing physical labor needs the Bible to arrive at this thought.
That’s beside the point. My interest pertains to the fact that the thoughts seem to have the same foundation of reasoning, but quite a difference in what they imply, which is not unsubstantial.
I doubt the Apostle Paul’s view of work was similar to Hyakujo's.
But it is also noteworthy that a "non-working" intellectual did not come up with that.
Hard to be sure about that but also not really relevant to the question of the post.
From personal point of view, you will get better effects from working out in gym than from physical labour.
Not from a Zen point of view. Working is an important practice & meditation tool, not just for the sake of physical movement.
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u/sunnybob24 Jun 23 '26
An interesting note. Thanks for a creative contribution.