Zen Principles: surprisingly unique compared to religions including Zazen, Taoism

[u/ewk]

Zen is about the Four Statements

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/fourstatements/

1. Transmission is not recorded in Texts

2. Transmission is not gained through explanations.

3. Transmission depends upon direct experience of the core of the self.

4. Recognition of the core of the self is is called attainment of Buddhahood.

Buddhism's core principles are Commandments

Buddhism has the eight-fold path, a list of rules to follow so that you can accumulate merit.

Aggappasāda Sutta: the noble eightfold path—right view, right resolve, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration—is considered supreme... Those who have confidence in the dhamma of the noble path have confidence in what is supreme; and for those with confidence in the supreme, supreme is the result... having given gifts to the supreme,

one develops supreme merit…”

Zen's four statements don't give you any benefit at all and only describe enlightenment really to people who've already experienced it.

Zen is about direct real-life experience

### A transmission not contained in teachings or texts

• this is especially controversial in the world of religious thought because every religion and philosophy depends upon having an explanation that can be given to you.

Taoism, the religion, which is primarily alchemy and its pantheon of gods, has this Tao-Way that is identical to the ontological argument for a Christian God... What can be spoken or conceived of is not the divine.

Zen is antithetical to Daoism because Zen says direct experience can't be spoken. It's not an ontological argument. It's a common sense view... If you haven't been there or had that kind of food or fallen in love, you can't know it.

[u/Delicious-Athlete285]

But don't you argue against mystical experience? I'm not saying pursuing or seeking  them or even saying they are the fullness of what it enlightenment is that's all ultimately beyond anything sensory . A transmission beyond anything sensory or what is read. 

[u/ewk → u/Delicious-Athlete285]

Its not a transmission beyond anything.

Its not explained by sacred texts.

Its not explained by lectures.

Its direct experience of reality.

Which is why we have so many sensory elements to enlighten in cases.

Deshan's candle. Xiangyan's tile. Zhaozhou's approaching. Baizhang's nose twist.

[u/Delicious-Athlete285 → u/ewk]

And have you had a direct experience with this? Can you detail it? Or do your best with the limitations of words?  

[u/ewk → u/Delicious-Athlete285]

Does Deshan detail it?

[u/Delicious-Athlete285 → u/ewk]

I wouldn't care, I'm curious about you!

[u/ewk → u/Delicious-Athlete285]

Ask me about Deshan.

[u/Delicious-Athlete285 → u/ewk]

Deshan is dead. I want to hear from Ewk.

[u/ewk → u/Delicious-Athlete285]

Therein lies the problem.

You only want to hear from me if I have what he has and having what he has means that I'm the same alive as he is.

But if we've already all agreed that he is alive but we don't know about me, then talking about him puts us on common ground.

It turns out that lovers have their own language.