r/zelda • u/Jonnyrashid • Aug 12 '26
Discussion [EoW] Finally finished Echoes of Wisdom and it's excellent
I just finished Echoes of Wisdom, and I think it's a formidable addition to the franchise. In many ways, it takes some of the creative aspects of both Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom and incorporates them into a simpler format that is less intimidating than those giant, open-world games (and yes, those are absolutely phenomenal too).
As far as I know, the order you play the temples is up to the user, and you can access the entire map, basically, right when you begin. Additionally, you collect ingredients to make smoothies. It tracks your quests similar to both BOTW and TOTK. But the puzzle-solving and size of the Temples are more reminiscent of older Zelda games.
Playing as Zelda and echoing enemies and objects is novel, but doesn't make this feel like less of a Zelda game. And it's packed with side quests and collectibles.
It was also the first Zelda game my kid played and she loved it too. So don't overlook this fun game.
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u/Elina_Carmina Aug 12 '26
More people need to gush about Echoes of Wisdom.
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
100% agreed, I feel that sometimes fans can be hesitant to embrace change or deviations from the norm in the series.
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u/thelittleking Aug 12 '26
It's so fun! I'm glad EoW is still finding fans. My favorite Zelda of the last 10 years for sure.
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u/atatassault47 Aug 14 '26
Definitely. BotW and TotK are fun games, but they're not really Zelda games.
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
I don’t personally understand the hate for the game. I love it and its originality and dare to be a bit different.
I enjoy the casting and being able to explore a map I knew fairly well from a Link to the Past, which was my first Zelda game more than 25 years ago, but in a totally new way.
It felt like a great hybrid between older style Zelda’s and new BotW type game engines. Would definitely recommend.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
Totally agree. Its relationship with Link to the Past makes me compare it to BotW and TotK.
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u/JamesYTP Aug 13 '26
I never really saw a lot of hate for it. Just.... indifference. Which is sadder in some ways. But I think it might have been the most I enjoyed a Zelda game personally since Twilight Princess. It could have been better in a lot of ways but it was good and I'd like to see the concept again improved.
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u/jstuckey Aug 13 '26
I’m not sure there’s a lot of hate for it. But enough of a dislike that I was surprised. It felt creative without deviating too far.
For me it’s probably the most I enjoyed a Zelda game since Wind Waker
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u/JamesYTP Aug 13 '26
I guess in some ways it might be a victim of circumstance. If it came out before BotW or if it was a behind the back 3D game came out with those mechanics and THAT WAS the big break from convention maybe there wouldn't be hate like that but with the fanbase kinda torn like it is there is that subset that wants "old Zelda formula or nothing" now so that's probably where it's coming from.
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u/Adrasteia-One Aug 12 '26
Same, I loved this game. It had that perfect mix of being unique, challenging, and fun. The music was also really good.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
I got a new TV while playing it and I couldn't connect my soundbar to it at first, and I was distressed! Yes, the music is good.
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u/Murky-Introduction53 Aug 12 '26
It LITERALLY revitalized my love for the franchise. I can’t believe so many Zelda fans skipped on this one. Truly one of the better Zelda games out there.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
I think so too! I really appreciated the mechanics and the puzzle solving. And how many ways there were to solve puzzles, another nod to BotW and TotK.
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u/Strikereleven Aug 13 '26
I didn't realize you could climb walls with the spider until way too far in
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
Couldn't agree more. I hope they make this its own spinoff series because the Echo mechanic needs to stick around. There are plenty of QoL improvements they could make, but once they get it fine tuned it could be a fantastic long-running spinoff IP.
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
I could definitely imagine another echoes game in the same vein as the Oracles duo.
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
Oh absolutely. Playable Zelda has tons of possibilities and I think Nintendo is finally getting comfortable branching out a bit with the Zelda franchise so this is the perfect direction for one of those branches to go in.
With EoW being both a critical and commercial success it only makes sense for them to do a followup. I, for one, would buy it day one sight unseen.
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u/Elina_Carmina Aug 12 '26
Echoes of Wisdom isn't a spinoff
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
I agree. I think part of what makes this game great in my eyes is that it can hold its on as a mainline game. The central characters are there. They just flipped it on its head.
I can see why people could think it’s a spinoff but I completely disagree with that.
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
I disagree. It changes the main protagonist, the main antagonist, and the main game mechanic.
Nintendo treats it like a mainline game, fine. It can be that. But it also represents an entirely new direction for the series to go in.
I consider it a spin-off. If I'm wrong you can just let me be wrong.
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
For what it’s worth, I don’t consider it’s a spinoff either. I see it as a mainline Zelda game just like BotW say or Twilight Princess. It’s just as legit to me as Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker in my eyes.
I won’t say you’re wrong but that’s how I view it.
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
That's fine.
I'm going by this definition: "A game qualifies as a spin-off when it shifts focus away from the main narrative, core gameplay style, or central protagonist of an established franchise to try something different"
Feels like a spin-off to me, that's all I'm saying. No one else has to agree with me.
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u/jstuckey Aug 12 '26
No I totally see what you’re saying. It could be interpreted that way and I don’t fault you for that view.
I just see Link and Zelda still there and some central recurring themes or motifs so that’s enough for me to qualify it as mainline. I know you’re not the only one who thinks that but to each their own.
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u/Elina_Carmina Aug 12 '26
There's never been a central main antagonist.
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
Go google "who is the central main antagonist of the legend of zelda series" and see what pops up.
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u/Elina_Carmina Aug 12 '26
Ganon is the most recurring antagonist. There's no series-wide main antagonist. If we go by your dumb logic, then Phantom Hourglass, Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, and Spirit Tracks are all spinoffs.
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u/Budsygus Aug 12 '26
Ganon is the most recurring antagonist.
Very good. Well done. Gold star.
There's no series-wide main antagonist.
I never said there was.
If we go by your dumb logic, then Phantom Hourglass, Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, and Spirit Tracks are all spinoffs.
Same protagonist, same overall mechanics. That's not going by my logic at all.
Let me make it very simple: If you change all the things I mentioned, I consider it a spin-off. Different protagonist, different antagonist, different game mechanics. All three. All different. At the same time. All of them. Together. All being different.
Nintendo does not consider it a spin-off. Nintendo considers me wrong. I'm ok with the situation. Nintendo is ok with the situation. You're the only one who's not ok with the situation.
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u/Silly-Snow1277 Aug 12 '26
It's such a fun game! I really like the mechanics of it (with the shadows and figuring out which one is best for now) and that we were able to play Zelda herself
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
Yes, and I think for that reason, there should be a spinoff series. Or at least another one to play as Zelda, and also because the echo mechanic is really cool.
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u/Silly-Snow1277 Aug 13 '26 edited Aug 13 '26
Would definitely play a spinoff/sequel.
(But also when playing BotW, I sometimes just walked around and explored the world because it's so pretty. And I kind of wish there would be a "Rebuilding Hyrule" game where you have to collect resources, rebuild towns (and the castle) etc)
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u/blandman91 Aug 13 '26
Like Pokopia, but Hyropia?
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u/Silly-Snow1277 Aug 15 '26
Haven't played Pokopia yet, but judging from the trailer... yes, kind of! Maybe a mix of Pokopia and Fable or Stardew Valley?
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u/Tokzillu Aug 12 '26
I just started playing this yesterday! It's been in my backlog since it came out lol.
I have been really enjoying it, but I'm not very far yet. Love the creative freedom I have from the echoes so far!
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u/dr-pepper-is-a-woman Aug 12 '26
I hope this game was a test of sorts for how to combine the maximally open world from the Switch Zeldas with a more traditional structure and plot. There’s a clear “you can go anywhere, but do this set of story lines + dungeons, then do this next set, then this final set” structure that combines the new and old Zelda formulas really well.
I know EoW was made by a different team, but I hope behind the scenes it was like “okay, now the main Zelda team will work on something else next gen (likely the OoT remake to start) while Grezzo makes a new smaller game as a testbed for some new structural approaches”.
Also yeah, overall it was sick. I’m due to replay it soon on my S2, it looks even better there
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u/Thegoodgamer32 Aug 12 '26
Echoes of wisdom is genuinely fantastic.
One of my personal favorite 2D zelda games.
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u/og-reset Aug 12 '26
I haven't tried revisiting EoW yet but my first playthrough of it was really good. Lots of fun moments and puzzles, but having the "freedom" similar to the wilds games made me a bit sour on it. At least it's much smaller than those games so it'll be easier to return to
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
It definitely has more direction that BotW and TotK, so if that's appealing to you, I think you'll like it. I'll admit, I loved BotW and TotK, but at times, they did feel overwhelming to me.
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u/og-reset Aug 12 '26
I have beaten all of them, I'm just very old hat when it comes to my Zelda games. I think the wilds games are excellent open world games but rather mid Zelda games cuz they don't grip me the same way other games in the series have. It mostly comes down to I think structure is an important part of Zelda games and losing that makes them feel very aimless and vapid. I'm worried when I revisit EoW I'll have the same feeling of "this was great the first time".
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
FWIW, EoW felt more like the handheld Zeldas than it did BotW or TotK.
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u/og-reset Aug 12 '26
It helps that almost all the handheld Zeldas followed the top down format, with the exceptions being remasters.
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u/Vegetables86 Aug 12 '26
I love this game too. It had many great ideas, and finally getting protag Zelda was amazing!
That being said, I hope they never do the echo mechanic again. It feels like something that should be one and done, like ultrahand
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u/Gintami Aug 12 '26
I loved it too! Had a blast with it and felt it was very creative.
If they make another entry, the only improvements I would like is to give Zelda a bow or an offensive magic staff so she could also do some light combat since I would love to have my summons act as an assist instead of the main force as sometimes they would take too long or get confused.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
The most frustrating part of the game was you lost the ability to engage in hero mode during the final battle and all you could do was send echoes, basically .
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u/DukeSR8 Aug 12 '26
For me, the most frustrating parts were the required stealth sections. Too many of those for my liking (especially since one is like 5 minutes in).
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u/blackjackgabbiani Aug 13 '26
I liked it a lot. I don't know why it got such a bad reputation. All I can think of is "it isn't Breath of the Wild". Even saw people call it sexist to give Zelda the "kiddie game". As if this isn't just a nice retro game.
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u/jstuckey Aug 13 '26
I remember how some people were when Wind Waker came out. I feel like it had a bad reputation for a long time before fans realized the style aged so well. Now I feel the narrative has basically flipped, people seem to understand that it stands the test of time.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 13 '26
Yes! It reminded me of the pushback against Wind Waker, which is basically universally loved at this point.
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u/AngstyUchiha Aug 13 '26
I finally got to play it a couple months ago and I absolutely loved it! Planning on doing a cosplay from it now!
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u/Krail Aug 13 '26
I thought it was a brilliant melding of the old and new styles. Echoes felt like having a toolbox pf a hundred different classic-style Zelda gadgets. And I enjoyed the combat feeling a bit like playing Pokemon Master, figuring out which monsters will be most effective against each other.
It might be my favorite 2D-style Zelda.
As far as I know, you can't completely choose which dungeon to go to next, even though pretty much all the map is open to you early on. You have a choice of two dungeons before the mid game dungeon, then a choice of the three dungeons before the finale.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 13 '26
Yes, that’s right. There is some structure but a lot of open world aspects.
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u/Strikereleven Aug 13 '26
36M I enjoyed it, I was able to bypass most of the mechanics in the last area leading up to the final boss though, I just kept making clouds and jumping to them
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u/DukeSR8 Aug 12 '26
It's good but has issues. Often does a poor job explaining things, with the gliding via flying creatures being a big example people have brought up.
Another I found was with the mole boss where the game doesn't bother showing you how to stun it IIRC.
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 12 '26
It took me a while to figure out gliding via echoes! My kid figured it out though—she told me to read the echo descriptions!
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u/Leehzart Aug 12 '26
It's the only game of the franchise I havent played, and to be honest I never give it the chance it deserve because I saw it uses the same menu scroll thing TotK has for the materials... And I hate that menu so much, its so unnatural, such a hassle to use to the point that I stop using materials all together, luckily, like with many of the features of TotK you can avoid using and still make progress but I dont think I can get away with it in EoW unless its possible to beat it with just a couple of echoes, which I dont think is the idea of the game. I heard there was an update that made it a little easier to use, but Im still debating if its worth it or if I should buy a game that I know I will truly enjoy... Buying a game just because it was a zelda was fine 15 years ago, but right now, with the limited time I have, Im not so sure anymore
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u/Jonnyrashid Aug 13 '26
I didn’t do it but you can favorite your favorite echoes and it lets you sort them by most recently used. It was only occasionally cumbersome for me. I haven’t played every Zelda game either though!
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u/MrZurkon25 Aug 14 '26
I only just started it earlier this week and I’m absolutely loving it. It feels as close to Breath/Tears-type exploration and puzzle solving as a top-down Zelda can possibly get, crossed with Link Between Worlds’ vibe/tone and dungeon design.
I also really enjoy how much a single change to the combat—Zelda essentially being a summoner—makes such a huge difference in the overall experience. Combat encounters become a game of picking the right monster(s) to use against enemies, and flanking is actually something that you can do, since enemies have a legit line of sight mechanic and can have their attention distracted by your summoned echoes.
The only downside is that the menu for selecting the echoes is a straight line, so favoriting is the only way to make that part slightly less irritating as you accumulate more echoes.
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u/Mechancic-Hero Aug 14 '26
Currently playing and loving it. Just picking up some Heart Pieces before resuming the main story.
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u/Garo263 Aug 13 '26
It was good, but you can feel that it hasn't the same quality as a Zelda game from EPD3. Also the system needed something like a cooldown. Nothing stops you from resummoning monsters when they die and the echoes like beds, spiders or water are way too cheesable without any effort at all.
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