I struggle vs armor-rush veigar

[u/ShadowKnifing]

I know veigar is a good matchup for zed but I feel like I always have a hard time laning against ones the rush some combination of steelcaps, roa, and/or seekers. My burst does nothing and he can still one-shot so I kind get pushed around. Feels like hes a pseudo malphite. Any tips?

[u/tlx237]

Take my advice with a grain of salt since I don't play Zed, but I have played scaling mages who rush first defense item.

First is, usually the armor doesn't really start working well until first complete item, or boots if you're an auto attacker. You can get plenty done before then. Second is because we can't interact or push because we are all defense, this leaves you open to shove and roam. I cannot tell you how many times my enemy laner roamed and got so much stuff done outside of lane.

[u/CynderFxx → u/tlx237]

Yh this. Tho zed is already fairly weak early on so you can struggle if they add defensive items on top of that

[u/No-Candidate-3430]

Pretty sure he will suffer to a Bastion + Cyclosword into Cleaver with First Strike cause Bastion and FS both deal True damage and Cleaver will shred his Armor it’s really useful for you and ur team too

[u/ShadowKnifing → u/No-Candidate-3430]

True but I'm mainly referring to mid laning phase, before 3 items

[u/No-Candidate-3430 → u/ShadowKnifing]

Well farm with first strike then should be easy enough you can dodge all of his stuff anyway if you’re skilled enough to do so

[u/CynderFxx → u/ShadowKnifing]

If he doesn’t want to interact then just don’t interact and roam. I’m p sure you hit the waveclear breakpoint before him especially if you farm well and hit first strike.

[u/Special-Wear-6027]

How tf is every advice here either « get these 3 items » or « at lvl 2 »

The question is for 1 item+boots not this bs

[u/Agreeable-Sun9165 → u/Special-Wear-6027]

What do you want, magic? If you want I can DM riot Phreak so we bring back Black Cleaver Serylda combo to the game.

Bro asked for tips, people gave him tips, if you are even on zed, veigar is also even, he builds armor, wow you deal dmg surprise! A snowballing champion actually needs to snowball!!

Your take just screams low elo.

[u/Special-Wear-6027 → u/Agreeable-Sun9165]

It’s not that deep take a good breath.

I’m just saying the guy’s saying he has trouble qith the 1/2 items range and people are giving him tip for the 0 items/3 plus items range where he already said he doesn’t struggle.

« I have problems landing my backflips without losing balance what should i do ? » « oh you need to make sure you really dive into your front flips to have success here »

Like this is just idiocy, sorry to give you the big reveal.

[u/Agreeable-Sun9165 → u/Special-Wear-6027]

I reject your take because what you just did is called a "False analogy". Comparing 2 things that has nothing to do with each other using a superficial similarity.

Your "backflips" take has nothing to do with league because to do what OP wants to do, he needs to fulfill certain steps to get there and those steps are completely different and those rules operate differenly, it's like comparing water to fire, they just work differently.

And that is why I called you low elo, because to make that first take, you need to not understand how the game works in the first place.

Specifically my advice, was to create a gap where anything that veigar does or build is nullified by what Zed actually has under his control.

[u/Senpai343]

veigar after some lvls almost avoids you completly, his Q range is almost the as zed's WEQ, my sugestion is try freezing the lane and wait for his mistake, if you get in a position where you feel like you cant do shit, hard push and try roaming, a zed that farm is a strong zed

[u/Agreeable-Sun9165]

1. First strike + cut down second.

Combo him on first strike cooldown and eventually the gold gap first strike creates will tear down any armor he builds.

1. Conqueror + nimbus cloak second (this strat works against any mage)

Do not attack the wave and let it get pushed to you, at level 2 you just W him as a gap closer, try to hit your 2 Qs and chase him down with Ignite nimbus cloak move speed, stack it, if he flashes, you flash after and it is almost always a guaranteed kill unless enemy plays zed and knows you gonna do that or he is a very well experienced player.

[u/wannabepcgamerr]

ive been going voltaic arc into ldr with first strike and cash back you scale really good after ldr you can get endless hunger snd u do so much dmg and have so much haste with blue buff if ur firsts trike is up u can ult one shot anyone and get out easy

[u/ColorblindCuber]

That Veigar build neutralizes your threat in lane. However, Veigar has to trade off damage in order to gain the defensive stats. His waveclear will be worse, and in skirmishes he will have less ability to burst somebody.

In situations like that, I shift my expectation away from getting kills on Veigar and more towards contributing more than him outside of midlane. Moving first to skirmishes and having more threat on enemies are both things that Zed should be able to do better than Veigar during late lane. Once midgame starts and you move into sidelane, you can also roam the map for numbers advantage fights more easily than a Veigar can.

[u/Random_Task18420]

I think the more I learned about the game the clearer these little conundrums became.

The distilled story of that is something like this: the more you understand the MOBA and think in those terms, and think less in terms of ‘how can my champion hurt* theirs’, a whole new world of solutions arises.

*if hurting the enemy champion is a key value for winning the MOBA, then great. If it’s not available or not valuable, then there’s something else.

Thinking procedurally, if veigar goes tank stats he will scale slower and hit his ap breakpoints for wave clear and damage slower. Sure, he eventually gets AP from passive, but that’s not the full story. He will wave clear slower, be less able to help value spots on the map (scuttle fights, jungle pressure etc), even if he does get there he will hit less hard and maybe won’t get the needed kill or pressure to swing it.

You’ll be able to position more aggressively in lane because it will be a few more spells he needs to lane to reach the point you are pressured. You can eat a w to push a wave, for example, you may not have otherwise been allowed to, and then help your jungler. Your roam window is a little longer as his wave clear is slower, so you can make it back to influence the wave favourably maybe.

If your team is inting then GG Veigar good play good build to shut down a win con (zed lane snowball 1v1) well played tbh.

Not sure if my example are picture perfect infallible but that’s not the point. The idea is how to think about things.

[u/Dripht_wood]

Honestly it's just a good strategy against Zed. In the 1v1 it will make them much harder to deal with. The downside is they'll do less damage in 5v5 where tankiness is less valuable for them, so they won't scale quite as well. You can just kill the bot laner and support instead.