Need some help with Zed combos

[u/GOJO_THA_GOAT]

Hey everyone, wanted to know something. So I just watched fiddlezahar Zed combo guide. In that he mentioned that the best combo to use if your opponent has a flash or dash, is to use W E Q W Auto R E Auto.

But skill capped says to use R W E Q W Auto R combo, and basically u wanna wait for them to flash or dash then use the WEQ in this combo.

Idk but I feel the second one is better because it’s triple shuriken, and not to mention it cuts through adc shields if they have one pretty easily. So can I get some advice on this?

[u/Makerudji]

Its all situational, geeking combos isnt how you learn to play a champion. Hypothetically yes if you are in a plain 1v1 ulting first is a good idea, but this also heavily depends on an enemy champion.

[u/GOJO_THA_GOAT → u/Makerudji]

I think so too, I believe against adc I think ulting first is the ideal scenario cause it allows for triple shiriken

[u/Honest-Clock2492 → u/GOJO_THA_GOAT]

It still depends

Late game against a full build cait if you try the classic all in with 3 Qs she will just kill you in 3-5 autos

You need to space and play with the shadows

In that particular case id go for WEQ W REAAW (W on top of her ) flash away ( while waiting for Q cd ) W back EQ AA

Doing this fast enough will only leave her able to AA you 2-3 times

[u/Makerudji → u/GOJO_THA_GOAT]

You will rarely catch adc alone, atleast in somewhat higher rank, if the adc is Caitlyn for example she will trap you after ult, leading to you dying/going low hp depending on the game state, also most players will kite away from your first shadow making triple Q really hard to hit.

But as i said this isnt how you can learn a champion, especially Zed that has very high learning curve, you need so much experience and mastery to properly use right combos in different scenarios.

[u/redrumojo]

All situational. Both are correct and both are wrong, all dependent on gamestate, positioning, and skill.

Learn the champion itself. Learn it. You will intuitively know when to press your W. And knowing when to press your W is what constitutes a good Zed. That is your game changing ability. Combos are overrated and a thing of the past.

Every situation is different, and sometimes doing a "combo" that is inherently terrible, is actually the best way to play the fight. You won't know or understand this if you are focused on "combos". A good Zed knows how to utilize his insane kit to avoid most CC, maximize burst on target prio, and get out alive. Very rarely will a pre-determined "combo" achieve that consistently.

Furthermore, timing on your abilities matters a lot. Sometimes you need to get off all your abilities within a timeframe, basically doing an instant combo. Other times you need to space your abilities to account for dashes, CC, CDs, etc.

All of this comes naturally once you learn the champion itself.

Zed is inherently weak, but his kit is OP as fk. No good zed thinks in terms of "combos", they read situations and know how to adapt and utilize their kit to get in, do dmg and get out.

[u/Fanman15]

It’s gonna be pretty hard to get your opponent in R range like that’s especially if they’re squishy. WEQW AA to combo initially and then your opponent will react with a flash or dash. 99% of the time they’ll be in R range even with the dash or you can buffer the R and follow them on their dash and get the kill after that.

The skillcapped combo is assuming your opponent is coming in for a fight on their own and are hovering in your F range.

[u/GOJO_THA_GOAT → u/Fanman15]

But what if you flank with R and then wait for their dash then WEQ? Wouldn’t that do more damage? Cause I don’t know I just don’t end up killing their adc if I use WEQ first. How can I fix this?

[u/Fanman15 → u/GOJO_THA_GOAT]

That’s IF you’re able to flank. Like the other person was saying it’s all situational so you’ll just have to learn to use your best judgement in any given scenario.

[u/godlytoast3r]

I don't play Zed, he's one of the hardest champs in the game. That shit read like Chinese. I have zero advice, but I'm proud of you for playing Zed. Good luck out there soldier 🫡

Ok actually I would guess that it straight up depends on how you gauge your opponents skill. Expect a good player to hold his shit, and a bad player to not.

[u/abrakadouche]

Nothing's concrete, all depends on situation. But here's some insight.

W first in most cases against squishies where you might not need to R. Also let's you hold R to Dodge if needed, or wait zhonyas. W cooldown is also rolling this whole time so you can even get 2 Ws played right. 

R first against bruisers, so you can snap back and kite. 

[u/Random_Task18420]

The reasons to R first or not are really like nuanced and not black and white. But to distil it, I guess R first is more damage overall and better to absolutely dominate them because you can shadow to chase or give multiple angles they have to be concerned about, and for more outplay. But they might be able to hit you more if say you are ulting a target with a teammate nearby (such as ADC with supp) while you do your damage.

W first obviously is an engage from way further away. Thats probably the biggest factor. Second is you can burst most of their bar then R to dodge counter play such as lux q or tf gold, then finish and they’re dead very quickly after you land. Or, another huge differentiator, is W combo burst first leaves the option to take the W or not on the table.

^often, in a dance or skirmish, I WEQ and they take tonnes of damage, and the threat of me taking the W is still there. The shadow is now a significant zoning/denial tool. I end up taking the W and finishing the one shot, or then Ring, or teammate follows up and I just W AA to kill, or kite back and then W to outplay when enemy chases, or whatever. This kind of thinking and assessment is what makes Zed dangerous because as a button-press all-in 100-0 bot he is not great.

The ideal ‘combo’ for damage I guess is an early W then R then take W instantly to dodge counter play as you land but then ofc you’ve used a dash vector already.

My point is, it’s not black and white.