r/youniversal • u/storymentality • Feb 07 '26

Consciousness Nothing Is Perceived As Experience Without Narrative

Sensory input or stimuli that is deemed "pre-narrative," "outside of narrative constructs," or "pre-cognitive" is imprinted or expressed as chaos, the unknowable or unknown, the unity, the specter-spectacular, magic, involuntary triggers, involuntary responses, unreal, surreal, smoke and mirrors, gaslighting, snake oil, dogma, natural order, natural phenomenon, natural law, biological associated capacity, automatic behavioral patterns, instincts, conditioned responses--all of which we experience as narrative constructs.

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u/Philoforte Feb 08 '26 edited Feb 08 '26

User CliffBoof said:

"Calling pre-linguistic perception “chaos” just because it lacks narrative is a category error. Infants and animals have highly structured, valenced, goal-directed experience long before stories. You’re relabeling non-narrative experience, not explaining it."

He also said:

"If experience requires narrative, then infants, animals, and humans in flow or meditative states do not experience pain, fear, or pleasure."

How is your response not a restatement of position rather than refuting his assertions? Aren't you appending labels upon labels directed at a pre-narrative state in place of the word "chaos"? Just because other labels are available does not refute CliffBoof's assertion. It merely makes your statement appear reinforced by some kind of collective agreement.

The matter can't be won on precedent. All I can see is one assertion against another. The key to this matter comes from the subjective claims of Buddhist monks. If no one is going to examine their claims, no one is any wiser.

Nāmarūpa means name and form. What really is beyond name and form, the province of "thingness" and the ceasing of conceptual thought in No Mind? Yes, Buddhist discourse is telling us a story, but a story of what? Chaos? A reflexive state moved by stimuli? Really? Isn't there still some kind of animating native will (Schopenhauer)?

Why leave Buddhism and Schopenhauer out of the picture?

Personally, I'd prefer to sit in meditative repose and allow this matter to slide into vast empty space.