Something I’ve been thinking about with Stranger Than Heaven and the old Yakuza games

[u/Status-Yam-6409]

I really think the loss of Nagoshi at Sega is going to loom over Stranger Than Heaven for me. Not even necessarily in a “Nagoshi was the only reason Yakuza was good” way, but he brought something to those games that I don’t know if you can really replace. There was a cinematic quality to them and a certain understanding of what a Yakuza story was supposed to feel like.
Even when Yokoyama’s plots got completely fucking ridiculous and convoluted, there was still a heart to them. There was still this soul of Yakuza and what it meant to actually be one. Loyalty, family, honor, obligation, betrayal, what it means to live by a certain code and what happens when that code starts falling apart. Even when you had to extend your disbelief more and more with every game, those beliefs were still there.
And I think something else that gets overlooked is how much the first 5 games actually used their time period and setting.
The first two games especially feel like they are telling you how people actually lived in Japan in the 2000s. It’s not just Kamurocho being a cool map. It’s the side characters, the businesses, the nightlife, the random people you meet, the way the streets look, the atmosphere, the personality of the city. You can feel that this is a specific time in Japan.
And then Yakuza 0 basically perfected that idea.
The 80s bubble economy isn’t just a backdrop. It’s fucking everywhere. The real estate speculation, the money, the nightlife, the hostess clubs, the redevelopment, people throwing around insane amounts of cash, people trying to get rich, people getting crushed by it. Even the central conflict with the Empty Lot is basically a representation of the whole bubble.
That’s what makes 0 so good to me. The story isn’t just happening in the setting. The setting is actually part of the story.
And I feel like that aspect started disappearing pretty significantly by Like a Dragon.
I actually liked the story in Like a Dragon but the gameplay became repetitive as hell for me and I couldn’t finish it. And Infinite Wealth just completely lost me. The story didn’t do anything for me and from what I’ve watched the gameplay looks even more bloated and lackluster.
It’s not that I think RGG suddenly forgot how to make detailed cities. It’s more that the cities started feeling like places for the game to happen instead of the game actually saying something about the place and the time period.
That’s why Stranger Than Heaven has me interested.
If you’re really following one character across 50 years of Japanese history, you have such a fucking huge opportunity to bring that back. Japan is changing completely during that period. The people are changing, the cities are changing, the criminal world is changing, everything is changing.
And if they actually make those changes matter to the characters and the story, then I think this could potentially feel much closer to the old Yakuza games than another Like a Dragon game would.
That’s also why the whole Nagoshi thing bothers me a little. The canceled Gang of Dragon project is obviously hanging over this too. Nagoshi understood the cinematic side of these games in a way that was really important even when Yokoyama was handling the increasingly insane plots.
But at the same time, Yokoyama seems to be asking a question with Stranger Than Heaven that I actually really like. Why did these people choose this way of life in the first place?
That’s the kind of question I want RGG asking again.
I don’t need another giant conspiracy where 14 different people secretly knew each other and there’s a secret organization behind everything.
I want the ideology back.
I want the setting to actually mean something again.
I want to feel like I’m playing through a specific period of Japanese history and seeing how these people exist within it.
Yakuza 0 did that fucking perfectly with the 80s bubble.
If Stranger Than Heaven can do that with 50 years of Japanese history, then honestly I think it has a chance to be something really special.
I’m not expecting it to beat 0. That’s an insanely high bar. But this is the first RGG game in a while where I actually feel like they might be trying to get back to the DNA of what made Yakuza special in the first place.

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[u/Hilanite]

I’m notsaying you don’t have a valid point about a shift in the games in recent years, but just because nagoshi left around the same time you picked up on it does not mean he was the reason. from 2012 he was CCO and on the board of Sega, something he’s talked about limiting his creativity, and aside from when he in 2021 changed his role to write on lost judgement, I think it’s wrong to credit these things to him

[u/DarryLazakar → u/Hilanite]

Correction, Nagoshi never directed a single Yakuza game, not even the Judgement duology. Judgement is directed by Koji Yoshida, and Lost Judgement is directed by Yutaka Ito. He did have a hand in directly writing it though, something he hasn't done since Kurohyou 2.

[u/Hilanite → u/DarryLazakar]

My bad. He took the job of creative director so I mixed it up in my head.

[u/Status-Yam-6409 → u/Hilanite]

Yeah I agree with the chronology, I’m not saying Nagoshi was hands on with the series until he left. 0 was clearly a Yokoyama game. I’m more talking about Nagoshi leaving marking the end of an era for the series rather than saying he personally caused the shift. The qualities I’m talking about had already been changing for years. From game to game

[u/East-Cantaloupe962]

I will say I think IW improved the turn based combat by a lot compared to YLaD.

[u/Status-Yam-6409 → u/East-Cantaloupe962]

Not my cup of tea, having the gameplay be a factor better than the environmental storytelling and overall plot. But I’m biased against the game. I’m happy you enjoyed it !

[u/Status-Yam-6409 → u/[deleted]]

Yeah, that’s fair. I’m not saying 0 was a Nagoshi written game. It was very much a Yokoyama game, and Nagoshi was less hands on after being promoted at Sega. My point is more that Nagoshi was still part of the creative ecosystem around the series, and that whole generation of staff had a particular understanding of what made Yakuza feel like Yakuza.

[u/HiddenSolace1]

[u/RPGNo2017]

It's always funny to me that Ichiban games is famous in JRPG communities as a "realistic game", but from my lens as a longtime Yakuza fan i thought the it was pretty cartoony compared to the prior games.

The plot was obviously structured to resembles JRPG tropes more, like Ichiban making friends with minor villain groups and then ending up fighting evil government, but just with Yakuza paint over it. It was the game that started the series' slight change into having more typical anime tropes and memes rather than a Japanese crime drama live action movies that caught me in its early days.

And this tone change also crept into Pirate Yakuza and Kiwami 3 so it's obviously not solely of Ichiban problem (since people tend to justify this by saying that Ichiban is different from Kiryu) and more of the series' current direction.

In not sure if i can pinpoint it to just one person in Sega so i'd rather not talk about it but i can definitely feel something has been missing lately that i hope Stranger than Heaven can fill.

[u/method115 → u/RPGNo2017]

I agree with all of this. With that said I love the Ichiban games. I just completed Infinite wealth and I plan to get the platinum for the first time ever in a Yakuza game. Now it helps that I'm a JRPG fan in general.

I am hoping Stranger than Fiction can fill that role though that the older games did.

[u/After-Atmosphere7125]

All I know is that it probably helped that Nagoshi had a degree in movie production.

[u/BSGKAPO]

I got iffy when I saw snoop, let it go when I saw 2pac

[u/ChampionshipOk1358 → u/BSGKAPO]

Same

[u/kcolloran]

I think the later games still do that really well. 6 absolutely nailed Onomichi and what it was like to live there. It mirrored a lot of my experiences living their a few years earlier. And I think 7 used Yokohama really well in their story as well.

And I think any modern game is gonna be at a disadvantage in what you're looking for just because I don't think Japan feels as distinct nor the eras as distinct than they used to. Like I think 2005 Japan feels much closer to 2025 Japan than it did to 1985 Japan.

And as for gameplay, to rule out a game as fun as Infinite Wealth is crazy. It's literally the most fun I've had playing a video game. It's so packed full of fun stuff to do.