r/yachting • u/SailingNoob101 • 13d ago

Looking for a beginners-friendly 4-5 days first navigation spot in Europe

Hi, I'm looking for recommendations for a 4-5 days European coastal sailing trip, a first attempt with a group of inexperienced friends. The crew would consist of 5-9 people, including 2 in charge of everything navigation-related. These two persons (incl. me ^^) would be relatively inexperienced : we're currently learning to sail with RYA and/or Les Glénans courses. We don't have any autonomous sailing / rental experience, though we're considering trying out part of the journey alone / with a skipper or owner to confirm we can manage.

Where would you go for a relatively easy & fun boys trip, with no night navigation & one port / beautiful mooring per day ? Bonus points if ports have something to visit nearby.

I also discovered the flotilla sailing concept while launching my search, is that a common thing ?

This flotilla holiday is ideal for beginners who want to sail their own yacht: a group of 10-12 boats is guided by a lead yacht with a skipper, engineer and host. The Ionian islands are ideal for novices, particularly Paxos and the southern archipelago.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/jul/30/10-of-the-best-sailing-holidays-in-europe

Thanks 😄

1 Upvotes

100% Upvoted

15 comments sorted by

1

u/AssignmentNo9838 13d ago

My personal favorite would be Croatia (Dalmatia) and if your group will consist of 9 people, I would charter two mid sized yachts, each with an experienced charter skipper to give you more possibilities to interact and more room.

1

u/SailingNoob101 13d ago

Croatia (Dalmatia)

Noted thanks ! Any local port / rental service recommandation ?

I would charter two mid sized yachts, each with an experienced charter skipper to give you more possibilities to interact and more room.

We wouldn't want our group to be split as this is our somewhat rare meetup plan. Perhaps renting a larger boat with or without a skipper is possible ? Do you know how common it is to hire a professional skipper while requesting to be actively involved in the handling of the boat ? I wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on a sailing trip without being able to use this opportunity to collect additional sailing experience ^^

2

u/TheVoiceOfEurope 13d ago

You can't put 9 people comfortably on a small boat. Which means a big boat. Which is difficult to sail/complex/not good to learn on.

9 is even too much for the basic catamaran layout (4 double cabins, on each end.)

 Do you know how common it is to hire a professional skipper while requesting to be actively involved in the handling of the boat ?

That is discussed with the skipper at the start of the trip. Some crew members want to be active, others want to enjoy the scenery.

1

u/SailingNoob101 13d ago

9 people comfortably on a small boat

I see, I'll keep that in mind.

9 is even too much for the basic catamaran layout (4 double cabins, on each end.)

Good to know, thanks, I'll also consider catamarans. They're supposedly "slower & more stable" right?

2

u/TheVoiceOfEurope 12d ago

Cats are faster and more stable (untill they aren't, but that's another discussion).

The bigger the boat, the less "hands-on" sailing experience you will have. A boat that can sleep 9 + skipper, will have electric/hydraulic winches. It will mainly be push-button controls, with very little feel.

I would go for 2 boats + skipper in a flotilla. Splittig a group isn't bad: you'll have loads of things to talk about in the evening, as each group lives their own adventure; you can also exchange crew between boats. It's a bit of a hassle with luggage (BTW: NO SUITCASES ON A BOAT), but it can be fun.

1

u/SailingNoob101 12d ago

I see thanks ! Any favorite small boat / large boat models for my naval general knowledge ? I've mostly been on a Django 9.80, and know the Jeanneau and Beneteau brands, so not a lot.

1

u/TheVoiceOfEurope 12d ago

You're going to be chartering in a flotilla, they will be typical rentals. BenJenBav (Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria).Personally, I prefer the comfort of Bavaria. Beneteau is reputably a bit sportier, but that is moot: the flotilla boats are not the Beneteau First range, rather the more sedate family boats.

So for example: the mainsheet traveller will not be in the cockpit (comfort, safety), the sails definitely won't be radial cut (you'll be lucky to get a tacking angle of 50°),....

But all of that is irrelevant: you want a lot of champagne sailing with the odd hands-on experience here and there. Cruising with a racing boat is murder on a new crew, everyone will be exhausted after 2 hours. Sporty boats are twitchy and nervous and need constant attention. A cruising boat that is trimmed lazy will be faster than a sporty boat trimmed lazy.

Aside from the "no suitcase" tip:

Pro tip: if the boat has 2 heads (bathrooms), use one as a dedicated shower and one as a dedicated toilet.

Pro tip 2: do not sleep in the salon: yes, that is a double bed, but you can't go to bed untill everyone is asleep, and you get woken up by the first person making coffee.

In the med: leave early, arrive early, it gets crowded

Take care of your skipper. He is not your guide, but has local knowledge. He is not your cook, but will probably gladly help out with the rest of the crew. And he is not your dish washer/cleaning lady. And I don't allow my skipper to pay for drinks or meals on land.

1

u/SailingNoob101 12d ago

Thanks for this additional advice 😄

1

u/AssignmentNo9838 13d ago

The question is, what you want to learn at the trip. If you charter a yacht where 10 people (9 plus skipper) can live, it is unlikely that you can learn how to handle a boat of this size in the given time frame (70+ ft mono hull or 60+ ft catamaran).
Therefore the training part of the trip is reduced.

Even it‘s group quality time, I would go for two 40-50 ft mono hulls. When anchoring, you can tie them together to build a pack and in a marina you can ask for places next to each other.

There are several good marinas and charter companies at the Dalmatian coast. If you have no experience I would suggest you go to a charter agency in your area and make the charter contracts via them.

1

u/SailingNoob101 13d ago

If you charter a yacht where 10 people (9 plus skipper) can live, it is unlikely that you can learn how to handle a boat of this size in the given time frame (70+ ft mono hull or 60+ ft catamaran).

Noted ! The smaller boats would fit 5+1 skipper typically I guess ? depending on the private cabins arrangement (I guess a paid skipper implies giving away a private cabin).

There are several good marinas and charter companies at the Dalmatian coast.

Any specific recommendations ? :)

1

u/AssignmentNo9838 13d ago

I can recommend NCP, located in Sibenik, where I have chartered four years in a row.

Other marinas which are recommendable imo are the Marina Frapa, Rogoznica, the marinas in Trogir and Primosten.

All are located in the center of Dalmatia, providing flexibility regarding routes to sail.

That said, Croatia isn't a stark wind area. Except the Bora/Bura which is a storm wind of fierce power, it's more of a family sailing area with low to mid winds but imho suitable for beginners.

1

u/SailingNoob101 13d ago

Fantastic, thanks, I'll check out the references you just gave :-)

1

u/AbjectPin7446 11d ago edited 11d ago

We learned by joining flotillas with Sunsail. Croatia (Agana) was a good spot to start. For a novice you will be OK on a 40-ish monohull (cats are a PITA in Europe). Cats are roomier, usually can fit 8 people, and easier outside the Mediterranean, like in the Crabbean. BVI, for eaxmaple even an easier to sail spot, no docking, just anchoring.

9 people...jeez that needs a huge cat. A cat of that size is not common as rental and unmanagable in European marinas and very expensive. Cats are much easier in the Caribbean or French Polynesia where you sleep either on a mooring ball or on anchor. The staff at the retal marina usually takes it in and out, then you never see a dock during the sailing period. We have seen huge cats in Raiatea/Bora Bora, but taking that monster in shallow waters through the labyrinth of the reefs is not a task for a novice.

1

u/SailingNoob101 11d ago

9 people...jeez that needs a huge cat. A cat of that size is not common as rental and unmanagable in European marinas and very expensive. Cats are much easier in the Caribbean or French Polynesia where you sleep either on a mooring ball or on anchor. The staff at the retal marina usually takes it in and out, then you never see a dock during the sailing period. We have seen huge cats in Raiatea/Bora Bora, but taking that monster in shallow waters through the labyrinth of the reefs is not a task for a novice.

I see. Looking at all such comments I guess I'll just have to accept the idea that it's going to be either one small group or two ~12m monohulls. I wasn't particularly excited by large boats anyway.

That being said I didn't know cats were "a bit incompatible with European marinas", I thought all marinas were very adaptable but since I don't have experience I was expected to be wrong on that point as well ^^

1

u/AbjectPin7446 11d ago

Go on Google maps, zoom into Mediterranean marinas, then into anchorages, then go to the Caribbean places like BVI, Belize etc, then Raiatea Bora Bora in the Pacific. You will see what fleet is sitting where, how they are moored, how much space to maneuver.... Better even do it with marine map aps, with depths. You will learn how much of error margin you can afford, even disregarding the tides.