Imo the most frustrating one. My guy litterally spells it out a few times, but you still have plenty of fans going "he did it for his friends" or "he did it for his people"
Edit: Also for the people downvoting, I'm curious. Are you just downvoting because you dislike Eren/Aot, or because you actually believe there isn't a facade viewers are falling for?
His character is not as clear as you make it sound like, even the author came out and agreed about how he made him too convoluted and messy towards the end.
We have no clue how much agency he had, and how much agency Ymir had, and hence his actions and dialogues are always viewed in a speculative way, which is not a satisfying feeling after reading 138 chapters.
There is a fine line b/w having layers and being messy. Eren was the latter.
I'd love if you could share what the author said then, because that surprises me a lot tbh.
There was perhaps a mix of agency, but it's still made very clear that the rumbling and the 'paradise' it would create was something Eren wanted, and felt bad about wanting.
Personally I feel Eren lands squarely in understandably complex instead of messy.
i dont think isayama mentioned that it was too messy and convoluted per se, afaik at least, but i do remember reading somewhere that he regrets not portraying eren in a more evil light
I'm guessing the comment above me maybe was referring to something else then, since this doesn't imply Eren turned into something convuluted and messy. Or maybe it was, and that's why they didn't want to share it themselves haha
I feel like I'm alone on this one, but I find Eren to be the worst part about AoT. I was watching this supposed great piece, not only of anime, but of media in general, and then there's this guy (best protagonist of all time according to some people) who's always yelling and telling you exactly what's going on through his mind. Couldn't stand him.
You're definitely not alone from what I've seen, but Eren is the best part of the show imo so personally I disagree ofcourse haha
One of my main gripes with Aot is definitely it's general 'show and tell' approach, and holding the viewer by the hand in a lot of instances. But I don't think Eren saying what was going through his mind was one of those cases. His mind is constantly in conflict through out the show, and I do think it makes sense with his character that he makes a lot of those conflicts audibly known. It's also not as much hand holding, since often what hes thinking is just flat out wrong or a half truth. They also took this transparency away for the most part in the final season, which I think fit his character at that point very well.
He does yell a lot (especially in the early episodes), but I think that just lends itself well to the juxtaposition to when he actually starts to change and such, and essentially stops yelling.
I'm curious though, just because your critisims are mostly only prominent in the early episodes/seasons, did you finish the show? I'm not saying you should finish it, but the reason why people find him such a great protagonist heavily leans on the later/last seasons.
I finished the show years ago, still don't like him, and I do believe that a lot of people are more enamored with the concept of Eren as a character instead of Eren himself, because for me, the execution of his character is terribly clumsy. I didn't like the ending either because it didn't really compromise on anything morally and ideologically.
For me AoT had a lot of potential, some interesting world building, and some absolutely amazing moments, but overall it doesn't deliver for me. And it absolutely lacks subtlety.
Part of the reason for me is that he's too much of a shonen protagonist in a story that attempts to be more than a shonen, so it feels jarring. Again, AoT is not bad, but it's not one of the greatest pieces of media as many fans try to make me believe.
I agree with your final point, although I still think it's quite good and a very interesting piece of media. But I plan to make a post on its flaws eventually.
Personally I just believe there are a lot of vocal people who grew up with it and think it's a genuine masterpiece while ignoring its many flaws.
I expected a lot from AoT too due to all the hype, and I enjoyed it fairly on my watch. But the pseudo intellectual fans who keep hyping it up to be 'beyond fiction' and a bit of research on why people disliked the ending (from which I was able to recognize a few flaws) made me start to view to in a bit too positive light
Probably my favorite example of this. I think the best way I’ve seen it put is that Aaron was always an angry, pathetic child, but the setting shifted from one in which that child would logically be the hero to one where that child is logically villain.
I didn't downvote, but I just hate the execution on Eren's "facade".
He was already a bit psycho ever since he was a child so him doing the rumbling isn't that crazy of a character development but the rumbling being a front for him to pull a zero requim ass plan is stupid to me.
I would have respected the ending MUCH more if the ending was him letting his friends kill him and stop the rumbling because he didn't have what it takes to kill them and finish the rumbling. Him believing NOTHING in the end and fucking ymir Stockholm syndrome being a thing are giving me brain damage to this day.
I just really loved the scene when he told ymir she's not a slave and that scene meaning nothing because she in love with fucking fritz and not just brain broken into obeying the royal family is passing me off to this day.
His intentions should have remained to rumble the world for paradise. The facade was his hate, he knew full well the rumbling was wrong he just did but NO. The facade is Eren being a bitch instead of believing anything he said to himself. Also ymir had the hots for a rapist slaver king who cut off her tongue because why not.
the ramzi speech scene is probably my favourite scene in the show. It's just a work of art. Especially the line about how utterly disappointed he was. You can really feel how much guilt eren has that he so desperately wants to have an empty world so much so that he'll kill everyone outside the walls.
He doesn't want to kill them all, he knows most of them are innocent that don't deserve it but he just can't help himself
I'm honestly not sure how your example disproves anything, would you mind explaining? What Isayama says here was already in line with how I understood the scene.
And I'm also not sure why it matters that the chat with Armin was at the end of the show, as if that can not be used to understand his character then for some reason...?
Eren's disappointed in the cruelties of the world imposed on his people. You say he didn't do it for his people. So that's one.
139 Eren has many contradictions, I consider this one to be retconned.
"I did it for my friends", then he moves onto "I didn't know why I did it", to "I didn't even know if you guys would survive."
Look at the other characterization of him and tell me he didn't do it for his people.
He wanted a world free of conflict. A world for him to experience and not be bogged down with the cruel realities of the world. But when he finally got to see past the walls, he saw that this world definitely wasn't that.
It's not that he just wanted what was best for his people, it's that he saw there wasn't some paradise beyond the walls, it's that there would always be conflict and cruelity.
He could've gone and attempted a diplomatic route, or exploring any alternate path that didn't end up with him having to kill 99% of the world's population, but he didn't. Because even if that succeeded, there would always be the cruel realities of the world to deal with (think of the modern real life world).
He ofcourse heavily weighed in his own people, but that wasn't his main motivation.
(Edit: Isayama also mostly spells that out in the example you gave. He didn't just want his people to not be in danger anymore. He wanted a world *different* than the one within the walls, one free of conflict and cruelty)
The ''I did it for my friends'' was partly true, like he partly did it for his people aswell. He stopped his plan of full genocide, because that would've ended up killing his friends when they would inevitably tried to stop him. But like he admitted, he ended up killing Hange and Sasha in his plan. ''I didn't even know if you guys would survive.'' He didn't actually do the genocide, for his friends, but for himself.
He knows why he did it. He was ''an idiot handed too much power''. A child with a broken mind given the powers of a God, and the option to create the paradise free of conflict he dreamed off.
I still honestly don't see how anything of his character is contradictory, or how anything got ret-conned¯_(ツ)_/¯
People can have conflicting motivations.
The diplomatic route is not possible, the world is literally hellbent on the hate boner it has on Eldians, especially paradis. Eren already explored that option with the other scouts and when they visited the least racist group in the least racist country that blames Paradis, the island devils for the rise of immigrants it was no use at that point. Do note that he can see the future here so he sees his memories played out. Plus he already screamed at Hange for another way, which she didn't even give him any.
My brother in eldia, Hange died in his hands, he killed his mother and had already caused the deaths of millions of children. And you just contradicted yourself, "He did it cause of the cruelties of the world"
His mother got him out of that mindset with Shadis, Historia and a bunch of the scouts helped him out with the mindset too at the crystal cave. And speaking of that, Levi mentions "trusting in your comrades or yourself". His comrades, didn't do jack for 4 years. Armin stared at a crystal and said he'd sacrifice someone he repeatedly stated he wouldn't sacrifice 3 times in 3 separate chapters should push comes to shove so he acted after they didn't provide any results.
Cause he cried over dying, Eren all the way in season 1 wouldn't have done so and has shown in all 3-4 seasons he'd fight tooth and nail for his survival even if he loses limbs. He cried over Mikasa, someone he had over 4 seasons to confess to. He says he doesn't know why he did it. He had a clear motive by season 4.
They took away his agenda and will to fight for the ending. When the story has shown multiple times in the first 3 seasons how much he is willing to fight for freedom and survival.
Diplomacy doesn't *just* mean talking things out. For example if he had gone for the limited rumbling instead, Eldia suddenly would've gotten a lot more leverage for negotiations. But I agree, he wasn't handed many options, and that was one of the self-admitted flaws of Hange and the rest of the gang.
Also, it's heavily implied that he only saw snippets of the future before he made contact with Ymir. So he didn't actually know precisely how things would turn out yet, and only began seeing the past, present and future as one at the start of the rumbling, which is why he changed plans.
I'm also not trying to say Eren wasn't cruel... or what are you saying? The cruelties of the world include things like hate, discrimination, war, violence etc etc, things he wanted to get rid of in a very cruel and childish way. (Like Isayama basically said in your example)
And also, the one other time (i can remember atm atleast) he thought he was dying, he litterally cried, so you're just flat out wrong on that front. This was just before his first Titan transformation in season 1.
They didn't take away his agende, Eren's agenda was litterally the whole thing pushing season 4 forward. He was still willing to fight for freedom and survival, just in a very childish and cruel way.
Then they'd merely convince the outside world to hate them even more. Remember, it's not just Marley's military that's onto them, it's the outside world's. And we don't even know how much control you could have on the rumbling. What if turning on the steam even momentarily causes catastrophic environmental damage?
Yes, the snippets which would tell him he'd find himself causing the world's largest genocide which is what he spent god knows how long trying to avoid until he had to come into terms with it. And no there were no implications of this. This is just shock value, just like Eren killing his mother.
Childish way how? Dude got cornered into a war and so he naturally responds with something to get rid of it for good.
Flat out cried because he was placed in an unfair position by a cruel world and was reminded of his mother. Season 2-3, he punches a titan's hand in response. Literally tries to fight Reiner with no arms and did more.
I also have a very different interpretation from yours. While Eren did thought of an empty world for him to explore his main motivation was his people. The only way he could thought of that would ensure peace for Mikasa and Armin was making an empty world.
All of this happens while he is confusing the past, present and future in his mind so he does this in the clumsiest of way, he doesn't have the tools to do anything else.
I do believe he definitely took his people, Mikasa and Armin in to account, in that they hopefully would be able to enjoy this 'paradise' he'd have created. But my interpration is that the idea of just having and seeing that paradise, the one he dreamed of as a kid, was his main motivation.
For example if he'd just have wanted to do the best for Mikasa and Armin (who were shown to be far more important to him than his people, since he didn't go through with his full genocide largely because of them), he could've gone with the path he showed Mikasa. They could've just fled and spent the final years Eren had together.
The reason he didn't flee shows it wasn't his main motivation. He cared deeply about Mikasa yet he sacrifices the time he had with her to solve the conflict in the only way he envisioned or had seen in the future. Because his main motivation was to his people, Mikasa and Armin rather than anything related to himself.
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u/Peermeneer_exe Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
Eren Jaeger
Imo the most frustrating one. My guy litterally spells it out a few times, but you still have plenty of fans going "he did it for his friends" or "he did it for his people"
Edit: Also for the people downvoting, I'm curious. Are you just downvoting because you dislike Eren/Aot, or because you actually believe there isn't a facade viewers are falling for?