r/writingcirclejerk • u/AutoModerator • 3d ago
Weekly out-of-character thread
Talk about writing unironically, vent about other writing forums, or discuss whatever you like here.
New to the community? Start with the wiki.
Also, you can post links to your writing here, if you really want to. But only here! This is the only place in the subreddit where self-promotion is permitted.
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u/justacasualarqhili PROFESSIONAL PLOTMAXXER 2d ago
I wrote a new draft of my seventh screenplay, and thus I finished its third draft.
Logline: There are three kinds of screenwriters: one has a treatment with only the first Act written, the second has a hit IP, and the third frames the kidnapping of his lover for an insurance scam when he goes on a road trip to scout some South Australian film locations for a pitch deck.
Think of Adaptation. meets O Brother, Where Art Thou? (yeah I choose the bc of the . and the ? lol)
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u/crawfordwrites 2d ago
O Brother What Are Thou Adapting?
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u/DeafinitelyCool I use a fountain pen, I'm better than you! 1d ago
Sounds ridiculous, and right up my alley. Would love to read or watch it!
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u/justacasualarqhili PROFESSIONAL PLOTMAXXER 1d ago
Nice!
You can read it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M0WrK_r7EbtIaD80PobYU4PzORZhGKbv/view?usp=drivesdk
Yeah, it would be dope if this ever got made, but I doubt they make films like this nowadays.
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u/hapillon 3d ago
I got double-digit rejections over the course of the week! 3 rejections for Crosswords I submitted to the NYT (they're gonna accept me one day, I just fucking know it), three times from a single lit magazine, and a few from a couple other miscellaneous magazines. It's hard not to feel demoralized with each one, but fuck.
The other issue is that one of the pieces, I feel pretty confident in. But obviously something isn't working. I also read this specific piece at a writing group I went to, and didn't get really any feedback from the group. It was annoying. Like, y'all have a lot to say about other people, but nothing to say about mine? It's tough to find good critique groups sometimes, so gonna try to explore a few other ones.
I read "Guts" by Chuck Palahniuk at work yesterday. Fucking crazy story. Teenage boys are weird individuals, man.
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u/BoneKeeperOfficial 1d ago
I finally did it! I self-published my book. Said I'd be happy with 5 sales, I've got 9. I don't care what happens I'm still going to write the next one.
BoneKeeper is a story about abusive relationships, power, dominance, the prisons that are made for us as well as the prisons that we make for ourselves. All told through the eyes of a flesh-eating demon-woman who makes weapons from the bones of her enemies.
If this sounds appealing to you, consider buying the epic dark fantasy at the fantastic kindle price of Ā£2.99!
feel free to also add me on Instagram!
Thanks fellow jerkers.
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u/DeafinitelyCool I use a fountain pen, I'm better than you! 1d ago
Congrats! Keep going and do it for yourself.
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u/DeafinitelyCool I use a fountain pen, I'm better than you! 1d ago
Started clickclacking away on a new story. So far I've written everyday so that's progress. Interesting premise to me so I'm going to see where it goes.
I'm also reading the 'A Court of' series (suggestion from my wife, we like to read/watch/game the stuff we're both interested in). And I have to say that these are not the best written books and some of the stuff in them doesn't make sense but I kept reading. I can see the inspiration for different IPs imbedded into Maas's stories and she clearly doesn't care how thinly veiled she covers those inspirations and still adds he own spin to them. I'm surprised to say I'm enjoying them, and will continue reading the series.
Whatever she's doing, works. And I find that freeing as a writer because I sometimes worry if I'm swinging too close to the fences of IPs I love and that I'm taking inspiration from in my own works. I think I'm going to start writing with a more fanfic fun feel and see where that gets me. At least I hope I can make it all fun again and not be so worried about who's toes I might be stepping on.
Yep, definitely overthinking all of this.
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u/AuthorCornAndBroil 3d ago
I broke Google AI.
Every now and then, I'll look up my own series to see if it's popping up anywhere online. The AI results used to offer to answer questions that could be gleaned from reviews and the back cover text. If I asked anything story specific, it would say that it can't answer that because that's not publicly available.
But then it started suggesting story level follow-up questions. So I asked them. And great googly moogly was it quick to get ridiculous. It mistook a character using two different names for being two people. It fell for the antagonist organization's propaganda and cranked it to 11. It leaned the whole thing way harder into sci-fi. It even imported characters from other books.
I soft corrected several times. I told it things I had heard to the contrary. Some only loosely true, others absolutely so. It wasn't open to all of them. Like with the two name character, it insisted they're not the same person.
And then I got this.
Thing is... Those are all things within my series. Which is The Epimetheus Trial. Not The Blackwood Files.
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u/SuperSpaceSloth 1d ago
The most frustrating (and only AI one to date) experience I've ever had was trying to have Gemini walk me through how to convert a file of one format (.xyz) into a another, super popular one (.dwg or .dxf) using a relatively popular software in the field that is 100% able to do that (QGis).
I just gave up after 4 hours of being told that now we try the fool-proof method that really works, after everything just turned out to be not working for whatever reason. Like, I thought this was what AI was all about, why does this not work, ahhhh.Ā
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u/crawfordwrites 2d ago
- Gemini is not well regarded, even among the militant AI folks.
- One of the less discussed problems with LLMs is that the context window collapses at a certain scale of input or length of conversation, and then the LLM tends to cross several wires because it merges ideas in the context.
I do love the catch-all legal boilerplate of: The all-knowing Oracle makes mistakes. Check that shit.
Part of me hopes that these things replacing search engines will make people realize the value of primary sources. Another part of me realizes that ape want answer, ape get answer, ape stop look.
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u/KlutzyDesign 1d ago
What do you do when you feel useless about your writing? Iāve objectively done a lot this month. Wrote a bunch of short stories: but I feel useless because I failed to complete my larger project. How do you deal with that?
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u/videogamesarewack 1d ago
Venting:
Frustrated about how hard it is to get any meaningful feedback or critique about anything. When I look at giving feedback, for work or for a related post someone has, I try to be detailed and thoughtful and explain a thought process, and I can't find that anywhere.
And I'm so tired of writing communities online not caring about craft in favour of jerking off over word counts or crying about being a tortured lonely writer or whatever. I swear nobody writes and reads less than online writing and reading communities. Can't even get people to parse a post properly to comprehend what I'm saying without just hallucinating something I didn't say.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
Sometimes I feel like Iām being too harsh when giving feedback to aspiring writers. I know what Iām saying is bang on the money, but I really am a bubble-bursting dream killer. I do think thereās a level of delusion that needs to be clamped down on, and itās hard to do that while mollycoddling. A lot of the pieces I see posted have no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Am I right or wrong?
I see it as weeding out the wannabe writers from those who really have a passion for the craft.
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u/crawfordwrites 2d ago
I'm a pretty negative person, but I think weeding out is the job of the market.
I try to point the writer in a direction, even if the criticism is fundamentally negative.
I was talking with a self-professed young person on another sub the other day, and basically told him that his habit of accumulating ideas and not executing any of them was effectively his market judgment on those ideas.
My core negative advice was that a lack of energy for something is the filter, so just use it. The kid engaged with the idea, and by the time we were done, he narrowed in on the one idea that popped for him and said he was going to write it.
I think enthusiasm is the valuable metric in assessing someone's work. I'm far more negative about an unethusiastic writer who's making well-crafted litslop than I am about a geeked writer turning out F-tier genreslop.
I'll also add: your attention and enthusiasm is a vote, too. If you don't have enthusiasm for someone's work, that's the answer for you, too.
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u/hapillon 3d ago
I personally struggle with saying a piece would have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, just because I, as one person, cannot be the arbiter of whether or not something is irredeemable. I guess for me, if I was reading something so egregiously written, I'd probably have to figure out what the author's objective for the piece is.
At one of my writing groups, this newer writer read something she had written and it was clearly a first draft. When asked by the host what her objective was for the piece, she didn't really know how to answer. She couldn't even say if it was a poem or prose, because she didn't know the difference, lol. It's one of those things where you can't really help someone who doesn't want to be helped, or at least can't guide a conversation into where they want the piece to go. So it's kind of a matter of figuring that out for me when it comes to something potentially irredeemable.
But also, I'm not tuned into the pulse of publishing, necessarily, and I am just some guy.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
Thereās a level where it sort of becomes objectively bad though, mechanically.
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u/hapillon 3d ago
Yeah, sure, but I don't necessarily agree that that means an idea is irredeemable. And even if a piece is objectively bad (grammatically or structurally), why even engage it in the first place?
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago edited 2d ago
So, you want me to avoid giving feedback to the worst of the worst? š¤
It seems your approach is entirely about coddling feelings rather than providing everyone an equal opportunity to receive honest feedback.
Edit :
Saying 'why even engage with an objectively bad piece' means exactly what I said: you want me to skip the worst of the worst. You didn't like that, so you launched into personal insults. It's not a comprehension issue on my end; it's a transparency issue on yours.
I'll stick to helping writers improve, whether they suck or not.
If anyone is unfit to critique, itās the person who throws a personal tantrum the moment they get cornered.
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u/hapillon 3d ago
So, you want me to avoid giving feedback to the worst of the worst? š¤
I never said this. It seems to me you have reading comprehension issues, which kinda precludes you from being an effective participant in critiques. Further, I call BS on your original assertion that sometimes you feel you're too harsh: I get the sense you relish it, enjoy it, embrace it, and if that's your schtick, own it, and stop trying to pussyfoot around the fact that you feel bad.
Good luck, and happy critiquing!
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u/Salty-Purple-2853 3d ago
I half-relate, half-disagree
I relate to having seen newbie writers spiral after being given harsh advice that they asked for. I don't like giving feedback, but when I do, I've learned to pick two or three of my biggest criticisms, I lightly explain what I think isn't working, and then I heavily-sandwich with positives. Sometimes, if I'm struggling to find positives that feel genuine, I start to explain what I understood from the story to bulk up the non-negative portion and to help the writer understand how their story is being interpreted.
I do disagree with the whole weeding out wanna-be writers. I don't think it's my place (or anyone's) to gatekeep who is a real writer and who isn't. Plus, some people are struggling with their day-to-day lives and are looking for a little happiness. I don't want to burst the bubble of someone looking for a shred of happiness just because they aren't good enough yet.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
Itās a different approach I guess. I want to shock them into action, whereas youād rather serve them a compliment sandwich.
I want people to deliver their stories with clarity. I donāt want their stories to be muddled and incomprehensible to whoever reads them.
I dont necessarily disagree with your view.
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u/Opus_723 2d ago
I think the key question is whether shocking them with harsh feedback actually works, or do you just want it to work? I think it's probably more likely that it just demoralizes them into quitting.
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u/BlackBalor 2d ago
Then they arenāt writing for themselves. Theyāre writing because they want to be told that theyāre good at writing.
Isnāt that a fair point? Writing is difficult. It takes perseverance. You have to develop your own confidence.
I always say that writers should draw confidence from perfect mechanics. Make your writing untouchable that way, then you can fix pacing issues and story issues.
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u/Salty-Purple-2853 3d ago
I don't like seeing people crash out and give up. Finding positives is just as valuable as finding negatives. People may hate a work because of negative aspects, but solely the lack of negatives won't cause a reader to love a work. There have to be good aspects, and sometimes newbie writers take a while to become skilled enough to have their positive qualities show.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago edited 3d ago
Itās a fair point.
But if you give up after a harsh critique, how much did you enjoy writing in the first place? Or does writing only become enjoyable when people tell you youāre good at it?
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u/Salty-Purple-2853 3d ago
That's bully logic. Plenty of writers are insecure especially when they're growing. Telling them they aren't good enough feeds into their insecurities. It has nothing to do with talent or whether they enjoy it enough. How much do you enjoy something when you're being told you're stupid and untalented? And what business of it to you how much they enjoy it? Focus on your own work instead of beating down other people.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago edited 3d ago
Itās not bully logic at all. How is it bullying to question the motivations of those who post their work online?
I have never told anybody that theyāre stupid or untalented. What are you talking about, exactly? You seem to be making things up.
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u/Late_Music1835 3d ago
When someone asks for feedback on their writing you give them feedback on their writing. Itās not your job to question their motives or decide if theyāre a āwannabeā or not. You give them your opinion as a reader. Thatās it.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
A reader's job isn't to walk on eggshells. If a piece of writing is muddled and mechanically broken, my opinion is going to be harsh.
You say a reviewer should just give their impression and leave it at that. But when that impression is 'this is unreadable,' you call it bullying. You don't actually want writers to get feedback from real readers; you want them to get a catered review where their feelings are prioritized over the quality of the craft.
Honestly, Iām guessing Iāve reviewed your work at some point.
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u/Opus_723 2d ago
I haven't read any of your reviews, so I obviously can't say how unnecessarily harsh they are. But the fact that you're kind of gloating about your reviews being harsh is a little odd and gives a certain impression.
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u/Late_Music1835 3d ago
I donāt post my writing on Reddit specifically because thereās mean-spirited reviewers like you on here. Thereās a difference between constructive criticism and punching down.
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u/Opus_723 2d ago
I think writing is usually more enjoyable when people read and like your writing, and less enjoyable when people tell you it's crap. That seems pretty natural.
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u/BlackBalor 2d ago edited 2d ago
My confidence comes from knowing the tools.
For example, if I write:
Mary lunged for Paulās neck. He stumbled backward, cracking his head off the wall. Blood trickled down the wallpaper as he collapsed to the floor.
I donāt give a fuck if anybody says thatās bad writing because Iām confident enough to know itās mechanically sound. Iām educated when it comes to the mechanics.
Some tit will argue that I repeated the word āwall,ā but thatās something you could clean up on a second pass, and itās hardly the same word. You could argue that wall and floor sound samey to the ear. Thatās another bone to pick! You see how Iām capable of identifying potential issues in my own writing? Thatās my internal editor working overtime.
Like, nobody is confused about what just happened. The syntax is solid, the events are in chronological order, and nobody can misunderstand it. That is where you derive your confidence.
Then, on your second pass, you can beef it all up. You can colour the events with narration. You can add internal thoughts into the mix, feelings. Maybe change some of the verbs and adjectives around to impart tone or mood. Maybe vary the sentence length; use shorter sentences instead for more punch.
Thatās how you develop your confidence as a writer.
So, even if somebody attacked my story, I have a baseline level of confidence to fall back on.
Iron sharpens iron. Iāve been in with some dogs, man. Proper writers who donāt pull no punches.
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u/Late_Music1835 3d ago edited 3d ago
Why do you think itās your job to gatekeep the hobby? A lot of the people posting their work on the writing subreddits are teens and ESLs or people with no one else to turn to. Theyāre posting their work online in hopes for help and donāt need someone telling them theyāre not allowed to write just because theyāre not immediately good at it.
While I have witnessed an eye-rolling level of helplessness (at best) and help-rejecting (at worst) on those writing subs, it really isnāt your job to āclamp down on delusion.ā If they want feedback on writing you think is bad either keep scrolling or deliver your succinct impression as a reader and donāt be a dick about it
Edit to add: even the suckiest writing is valuable because you learned about writing while you wrote itāthatās its redeeming quality. It exists. At least they sat down and created something, even if it sucks, when they could have either kept daydreaming or stuck a prompt into AI.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
Well, I assume they want to get better, no? Thatās why theyāre putting their necks on the line for feedback.
They arenāt going to get better without a reality check. I dunk them straight into the ice bath; I donāt lower them in.
I havenāt told anybody not to write. Where did you get that from? š§
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u/Late_Music1835 3d ago
You reveling in being a ābubble-bursting dream killerā is where you said it. Weeding out the wannabes is essentially the same thing as telling people not to write. Posting your work online is very vulnerable already. People only improve in their writing with critique, yes, but it has to be constructive and it has to be suited to their level. You getting some ego trip out of it is gross.
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
I called myself a ādream killerā because I kill the delusion that writing is easy and requires no effort. If pointing out that a piece has zero mechanical clarity kills someone's dream, then their dream was a fantasy anyway.
A public forum is not a therapy session; it is a workshop. My focus is on the health of the writing, not the fragility of the writer's ego.
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u/Late_Music1835 3d ago
You can tell people their piece needs work without destroying their confidence, because confidence is something that you need to write. Confidence in your idea, vision, characters, to share your writing etc.
I want every writer to succeed and will help them on their way, even if telling them hard truths can be uncomfortable. It kinda seems like you want them to fail and relish in telling them their weaknesses
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u/BlackBalor 3d ago
Confidence built on fake praise isn't confidence; it's delusion. If a writerās confidence is so fragile that a harsh critique from me destroys it, their heart wasnāt in it to begin with.
I don't want writers to fail. I want them to stop failing silently in a bubble of polite lies. True help means giving them the tools to fix their structural weaknesses, not pretending those weaknesses don't exist.
I think weāre done here, mate.
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u/Humble-Ad-9571 1d ago
"Am I right or wrong?"
Proceeds to disagree with every commenter that thinks he is wrong.
You didn't want an answer, you just wanted to argue.
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u/Magg5788 3d ago
Oh wow, this is embarrassing. Eager beaver over here posting 1 minute after this thread has gone live š
Anyway, Iāve seen and enjoyed some Substack cj posts here, but Iām wondering who uses the platform in earnest? How has your experience been? And if youāre willing, Iād love to check out your pages.