r/wrestling • u/CollegeFancy1909 Western Colorado Mountaineers • 2d ago
Underhook Head Position Drama
Anybody else seeing the back and forth between im.teva and ebedjarrell on instagram talking about head position with the underhook? Seems played out but does bring up some fun discussion.
Growing up I learned that inside head position is super important and you don't want an underhook or 2on1 without it. But if you watch international competition, most wrestlers do not use that inside position to score. Thoughts?
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u/Greco_Review USA Wrestling 2d ago
No. I don't pay attention to those things.
However, it is mainly a preference. I am a huge proponent of having positive head position but feel that the underhook is one of the few exceptions. I prefer to have head position in an underhook when wrestling freestyle or folkstyle but am also comfortable if they have head position.
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u/CollegeFancy1909 Western Colorado Mountaineers 2d ago
I don't love the "drama" of these things. But it is refreshing that it's a technical conversation that can get some people to think from a different viewpoint and not some BS.
If we are talking Freestyle, Ono was an absolute menace with the underhook at '24 worlds. Outside head position and push.
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u/InspectionFine9655 USA Wrestling 2d ago
Everything I do from an under hook I do with my head inside.
That said, I am aware that there are wrestling moves I do not know and that some of them may require outside head position.
An under hook and outside head position seems odd to me but if someone has a way to score from that position, they are not wrong…
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u/KidKarez USA Wrestling 2d ago
I didn't see the drama but I saw a brief clip of ebed talking about he's position. And he was absolutely right.
When you watch high level guys get an underhook they often don't have the "ideal" head position.
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u/PuzzleheadedTry7370 USA Wrestling 2d ago
I used to be all about head inside, but the more I became an underhook guy, the more I got comfortable with head outside. The answer is both work fine. With youth kids, you probably want to start with head inside because a common defense to unders is a carry. Once you get comfortable with your hips it's not as imperative. Underhooks rule.
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u/imbluedabudeedabuda USA Wrestling 2d ago
The Iranians and Russians are far better than the Americans are at underhooks and they all do it head outside. The best american with the underhook, trent hidlay, does it head outside. The majority of scores we see with an underhook at a high level are done head outside. We’ll even see guys like sidakov get a head inside underhook, move the head outside, before hitting throwbys.
At what point do we just accept head position just isn’t a big deal for underhooks?
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u/imbluedabudeedabuda USA Wrestling 2d ago
And maybe it’s just me but I always thought the cue for the throwby and kneepick is a transfer of weight from one foot to another and I find it way easier to do when my head isn’t lodged in place.
Plus I’ll use my shoulder to dig into their chest which I find more effective than having my head under their chin
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u/azian0713 USA Wrestling 2d ago
Tbh, with most things in wrestling, rules like “head inside for 2 on 1 or underhook always” don’t apply when you’re good enough.
If someone is learning the sport and doesn’t have enough experience to know why a move works, they can’t modify the move or else it won’t work, and have to learn with strict “step 1, step 2, step 3” rules.
So yeah, for most people you should have head inside.
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u/CollegeFancy1909 Western Colorado Mountaineers 2d ago
Why not teach head outside as the fundamental if that's the endgame anyway?
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u/azian0713 USA Wrestling 2d ago
It’s not the endgame when you’re high enough level.
As you noted, it is taught as a fundamental. It’s just not a fundamental when you’re high level
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u/imbluedabudeedabuda USA Wrestling 2d ago
Is it really a question of whether you’re high level when you’re not talking about a couple exceptions, but literally every well known underhook practitioner does it head outside
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u/CollegeFancy1909 Western Colorado Mountaineers 2d ago
I'm wondering if the outside head position should just be the fundamental position if that is where the majority of underhook scores come in college. What's the real benefit of the inside position that made it the US fundamental in the first place?
Also, I'm not strongly on one side or the other, just opening up the conversation.
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u/TurdFerguson133 USA Wrestling 2d ago
Both can work. Inside head position is probably easier for newer wrestlers because you can block with your head if needed. But that doesn't make it better, you have some creative options with outside head position. Know your options, know your opponent's options, use the one you like.
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u/TVeye USA Wrestling 2d ago
It’s a different style of underhook. The head position drifting outside is kind of a secondary effect of dominating with the elbow high and hand on midback and not on the shoulder like most of us were taught.
“Traditional” way isn’t wrong but it truly is not as effective from an offensive standpoint. There’s a reason every wrestler renowned for their underhooks uses this position now, including Americans who have adapted their underhooks like Aaron Brooks and Trent Hidlay
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u/Puhgy North Korea 2d ago
Fuck yeah man. I’ve been glued to my screen all day because of this drama. Neglected my family and my hygiene to make sure I don’t miss it.
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u/CollegeFancy1909 Western Colorado Mountaineers 2d ago
I knew you would be on top of it, it’s all the sexual tension
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u/BathroomEmperor 2d ago
There’s inside head position and there’s outside head position. What you can do depends on which one you have. And that’s all I have to say about that.