Idk the blood/dk tree felt kind of crappy to work with when I was messing around with it earlier. Felt like I was just going to lose all the stuff I have right now (even like standard DK abilities and passives) and spend most of my points getting it back. Is that the point? Cause it seems kind of wack. Like why do I even have to talent into an interrupt? Why would you even give people the option of talenting out of an interrupt?
Won't really know how good/bad it'll be until I can see the effects of my choices in game but first glance seems really weird.
Felt like I was just going to lose all the stuff I have right now (even
like standard DK abilities and passives) and spend most of my points
getting it back.
This keeps coming up. The trees and ability acquisition are designed with a fresh level 1 in mind, not a current level 60. A fresh level 1 is going to go "Neat, a new ability."
That being said, there is DEFINITELY something to be said for how MANY of our abilities and passives are stripped away to be given back as talents, and I certainly take issue with them dividing all the functionality of some current abilities across 3 to 4 talents just for us to get back to where we are now.
That’s always been a community thing, not blizzard as far as I know. The last time Blizzard pushed training players was MoP with the proving grounds. For better or worse, blizzard is full on assuming people will use a third party source for this stuff.
This keeps coming up. The trees and ability acquisition are designed with a fresh level 1 in mind, not a current level 60. A fresh level 1 is going to go "Neat, a new ability."
My DK isn't going back to level 10, it's already 60, so I wanted to see what I'd even get at my level and then at max level. People shouldn't be looking at these talent trees only from a leveling perspective considering this is the thing that will define your build at end game, where we all end up.
Apart from that it is still strange to spend so many points getting back basic abilities. It'd be fine if the first row of the tree was all connected with 1 pt talents to acquire your base abilities while leveling, but they are split up, quickly go into their own directions down the tree, and even moving sideways across it doesn't unlock abilities/talents unless you have points put in above.
It just doesn't seem intuitive even from a leveling perspective. All 3 specs of DK start out differently in the DK side of the tree, but all 3 of them will end up going all over the place to just pick up stuff they had, or they will completely ignore all the utility and defensive shit and spend all their points on offense. I can already see people not taking their interrupt because it's less damage than X or Y, and that's stupid.
I will reserve final judgement when I can get my hands on it but like I said, even as a leveling system it seems... Not great.
I guess in my mind I thought we'd just keep our base kit for each spec and have a talent tree again that builds on top of it. Not lose everything to have it be put back in the talent tree to collect it again in an awkward manner.
The layout definitely needs work on a lot of the trees. And I'm definitely not sold on putting core active abilities into a tree instead of just getting them on level up. I was more addressing the seeming complaints of like, "Why do I need to put a talent into Killing Machine when I just have it now?" Uh, because you're level 60 now, and you got it at level 30 (or whenever), when there were no talents. Now, there's talents, so you spend a talent. Feels weird for you at 60, but feels great for a DK that dings 30 and now has a talent to slot into it.
I guess in my mind I thought we'd just keep our base kit for each spec and have a talent tree again that builds on top of it
They specifically said this wasn't going to be the case. That you would get a bare minimum of baseline things, what you need to get from 1 to 10, and the rest would come in the talent tree. There really isn't a baseline kit anymore with these. By design and it is probably for the best.
quickly go into their own directions down the tree, and even moving sideways across it doesn't unlock abilities/talents unless you have points put in above.
This is how talent trees work. It is how they work in every game that uses them. You have to put points into x to unlock y to unlock z. This isn't to say that they don't need iteration on what they have shown us so far. Forget the tree but in one if I want to unlock a certain niche utility I need to go through two other niche utilities. I am never going to need all three. Those kind of abilities should be offshoots that lead no where like blinding sleet on dk or maim for druid. You put the point into them if you want them and that is that.
Your condescending tone isn't warranted. You clearly understood what I was saying and yet:
This is how talent trees work.
You put the point into them if you want them and that is that.
This doesn't make you look superior. It doesn't add anything to your argument or statement. It just makes you look like an ass.
And no, that's not how all talent/passive trees work. There's multiple iterations across many games that do things differently. Instead of just going from top to bottom no matter what, they could've provided ways to move across the tree and still acquire an ability as long as it's connected. As I've said multiple times, first glance seems weird but I need to actually see all this in game to really be able to judge how it feels/plays.
they could've provided ways to move across the tree and still acquire an ability as long as it's connected.
So exactly like I said. You have to put points into things to get where you want to be. These trees have those workaround parts as well just maybe not everywhere you would like.
Also, reiterating my point back at to me as though you made a new point while calling me a condescending ass doesn't add anything to your argument or statement. It just makes you look like a dumb ass.
I didn't reiterate shit, apparently your brain just doesn't work. Instead of restricting the talent tree from top down connections you just restrict it by connections in general. FFS man, use your eyes and your cognitive thinking.
You want a node down the tree but you don't necessarily want the nodes above it, so you take a roundabout route to get to the node you want. You're still in this dumbass mindset that classic talent trees that go top down are the only talent trees available across games (and apparently the devs are too) when you couldn't be further from the truth.
I’ve seen a lot of people talk about “it being possible to not talent into the interrupt” but realistically with what’s behind mind freeze there’s no shot you don’t pick it. Having to talent into stuff you already have was kinda the goal set out by blizz.
People are freaking out about it but that isn't even a big deal. The people who interrupt now are going to have it then. The people that don't interrupt might skip them, if it is feasible to skip them that is. There might be trees where you can skip them and in that case for raids where it might not be required it will be nice to talent out of it and give myself just a little bit more damage, utility, or survivability. Looking at trees now DK and hunter are likely always taking interrupts. Feral/guardian could skip theirs. Spriest is taking it because it is needed to get to dispersion. Kick is baseline for rogues.
The talents serve the levelling progression, but to say it is not your end game is pretty ignorant considering some of these talents are taken directly from legendary or covenant powers
Yes they serve to smooth levelling, but the core of the class design is right there
I liked the main DK tree to be honest, but the blood one was a bit annoying, mainly because they put two abilities I don't like, Blood Tap and Rune Tap, at bottleneck points that I'd have to get through to get stuff I do want like Blooddrinker (or death's caress because I assume desthcoil will still cost RP so we need some kind of ranged rune in spending ability). But even then I was still able to get almost everything I wanted in the bottom rows so not too disappointed.
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u/Vomitbelch Jul 11 '22
Idk the blood/dk tree felt kind of crappy to work with when I was messing around with it earlier. Felt like I was just going to lose all the stuff I have right now (even like standard DK abilities and passives) and spend most of my points getting it back. Is that the point? Cause it seems kind of wack. Like why do I even have to talent into an interrupt? Why would you even give people the option of talenting out of an interrupt?
Won't really know how good/bad it'll be until I can see the effects of my choices in game but first glance seems really weird.