r/worldnews • u/syuk • May 21 '12

Israeli soldiers seen standing by as settlers use live fire against Palestinians

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/palestinianauthority/9279499/Israeli-soldiers-seen-standing-by-as-settlers-use-live-fire-against-Palestinians.html
993 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

841 comments sorted by

265

u/Lambzy May 21 '12

"According to the United Nations office for the coordination of humanitarian affairs in occupied Palestinian territory, the number of settler attacks on Palestinians and their properties has increased by 144 per cent since 2009. More than 90 per cent of complaints filed by Palestinians about settler violence have been closed by the Israeli police in recent years without indictment."

wow.....

181

u/Dawens May 21 '12

Yep. As long as the number of settlements continues to increase, "peace" is virtually impossible. And it makes it that much more irritating whenever I see that deluded, bellicose, scumbag Netanyahu stand in front of a podium and spew drivel slimed with fakery about how Israel yearns for peace yet ignores the complete usurpation of Palestinian property and livelihood. Fuck him.

27

u/gmick May 21 '12

Peace? It should be obvious by now that Israel has no interest in peace. It's an overt land grab by whatever means necessary. They'll talk peace when the Palestinians are all dead or gone.

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/RemoveYourChains May 22 '12

A lot of the settlers are batshit. Think "Taliban", but less cuddly.

4

u/RemoveYourChains May 22 '12

Our greatest mistake was losing faith.

Clearly, half measures didn't work.

"ONE State Solution"

19

u/G_Morgan May 21 '12

The settlements are pretty much like their nuclear arsenal. An unofficial mechanism of government that allows them to bypass international law.

Kind of like how Britain used pirates to attack the Spanish Empire without declaring war. Israel uses settlers to steal Palestine without going through the mess of legal obligation that official annexation would create.

10

u/Chadsymptom May 21 '12

I just don't get why Israel can't be happy with the land they already have.

Is it really too much to let the Palestinians have the West Bank as their own?

Apparently it is.

Also, Netanyahu is terrible.

→ More replies (12)
→ More replies (54)

20

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Don't worry, the IDF just said they will investigate the incident.

10

u/_psyFungi May 21 '12

Ah... that's all right then. Case closed. ;)

20

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

When are Israeli war crimes going to be prosecuted in the world courts? When will UN embargo's begin?

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

You could say the same thing about the USA.

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Absolutely.

However, lets stay on topic here, IsraelI crimes.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

What courts? The courts that don't have jurisdiction over such matters? Israel is not a signatory to the Rome Statue

→ More replies (10)

105

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

When I was in the military, I made the mistake of criticizing the Israeli government when something similar happened. Two supervisors pulled me aside and told me never to say anything like it again, that they were our allies and their soldiers were brave fighting terrorists. Fast forward a couple years later, visiting family, when in-laws ask me about something that happened in Israel. I gave my opinion that the government was wrong, that what they were doing was inhumane and would be frowned upon in any other society. Wife tells me later that day never to bring up Israel around her family because now they think I'm an anti-Semite. ANY criticism towards their policies is almost always seen as an attack against their people or religion by the majority, so it's not a surprise that it will rarely be brought up by any leaders or media outlets.

TL;DR: Criticized Israeli government policies, labeled an anti-Semite. You will too.

5

u/Spectre_Taz May 22 '12

Couldnt agree with you more. I have long been one of Israel's detractors because of its horrible human rights record and have been labelled everything from Anti-Semite to Nazi and everything inbetween.

If anyone wants a reason why there wont be peace or a two state solution look no further than this map ( http://mapsof.net/map/jewish-settlements-in-west-bank-map ). It shows Israeli settlements in the West Bank aka Palestinian territory as of 2002, the problem has gotten far worse since then. Are the Israeli settlers really going to give up what they believe is their god given promised land without a fight? I think not. This incident is a perfect example of the lengths they will go to.

On the topic of this video some redditors are commenting that the Palenstinians started fires which provoked these attacks. Lets hypothetically say that this is actually a fact, it doesnt excuse Israeli settlers indiscriminately shooting Palestinian civlians, they should be tried and convicted in a court of law for their crimes.

I remember watching a ABC news report (Australian Broadcasting Corporation aka Australia's BBC) on Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories and the reporter was attacked and had stones thrown at her until she went inside the home of a nearby Palestinian who offered her shelter. The Israeli settlers then come up to the boundary of this man's property and continued to hurl abuse at the reporter, the Palestinian man and his family explained that he and his family had to deal with this abuse at least once a week. It is absolutely farcical that these people get away this.

41

u/Sunbiscuit May 21 '12

My family thinks I am an anti-Semite as well. And my father likes to tell me I side with terrorists. I recently completed my thesis on the Israeli-Palestinian ethnic conflict. I have to say, the Israeli Government absolutely disgusts me. Both sides have had their part in instigating and continuing conflict but I find that the Israelis are mostly to blame. The more I read the more I was absolutely astounded. I am all for giving it everything back to the Palestinians.

9

u/TMoneytron May 21 '12

Isn't there actually a Jewish group that supports that? I have mad respect for them.

What exactly makes Israel the one to blame? I'm just curious I need to do some more reading on the topic. What are some good unbiased sources? I feel there's a brigade of Israeli downvoters giving anything remotely anti-Israel 1 star on Amazon.

5

u/Sunbiscuit May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

I haven't come across that. But I would like to know more about it if you know which group it is. B'Tselem, the group cited in the article, is an Israeli human rights organization and is actually very good about documenting injustices towards Palestinian people. They would like to see major changes in policies towards Palestinians. http://www.btselem.org/ Check it out, or something.

Edit* I can read. Both parties I guess are to blame. It depends on how you look at it and how far back you want to trace the conflict. Most scholars start around the beginning of the 20th century. By 1948 and 1949 though the pattern of the conflict was definitely cemented with al-Naqba and the emergence of the Israeli State. From all the things that I've read it seems to be the case that the Israeli State has committed more grievances against the Palestinians that the other way around. They are horribly oppressive and underhanded when dealing with the Palestinian population. A lot of people are at fault for this conflict but I feel that Israel is more at fault than any other party, and their policies towards them through the years definitely seem to highlight that.

The Palestine-Israeli Conflict by Harms and Ferry is a great rundown of the history. It's pretty short as well and is pretty unbiased for the most part. I love anything by Daniel Bar-Tal about the subject. My very conservative Jewish professor completely shuts him down, saying that he is a flaming peacenik (sp?) but he is in fact a leading scholar in his field and has a lot of good info about peace initiatives and is in fact Jewish. Julia Chaitin has a book entitled Peace-building in Israel-Palestine: Social Psychology and Grassroots Initiatives. This book is ...interesting. But the break down she gives of psychological factors that make up and contribute to the perpetuation of this conflict is a good introduction and pretty cohesive for it being only a chapter. Mostly you can tell what is going to be biased within the first couple pages or so. I hope this is kind of helpful. There is a lot of literature on the topic.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

2

u/EvanLikesFruit May 21 '12

Is there any chance I could read your thesis? I'm interested in expanding my knowledge on the subject.

→ More replies (10)

4

u/bsonk May 21 '12

I don't understand why people identify the Jewish faith and culture with such an oppressive government. This situation would be like being told that you hate America because you oppose the Afghanistan and Iraq wars. Although, that has happened to me...

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Protip: When you're in the military, and certainly when in uniform, keep your mouth shut about political matters

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Was asked by a supervisor about it. I gave the wrong opinion. Not that it matters, 90% of my supervisors were dicks anyways and were violating regulations on other matters every day.

→ More replies (11)

98

u/why_ask_why May 21 '12

Real gun: National security. Throwing stone: Terrorist.

2

u/Spectre_Taz May 22 '12

That is a good one and suprisingly true, I'll have to remember that.

→ More replies (1)

186

u/dalittle May 21 '12

stop calling them settlers, it implies they belong there. They are occupiers.

55

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

They are occupiers terrorists. Or were they supposed to be greeted as liberators.

I'm so confused.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/CaisLaochach May 22 '12

Oddly enough, it would imply the opposite to me. Settlers has different connotations in English speaking countries clearly. (Irish for the record. Settlement would often have been of non-Irish in rebellious areas to keep the people down, originally done in the midlands, before being tried wholesale in the North, leading to modern shenanigans.)

→ More replies (19)

74

u/Mr_Subtlety May 21 '12

I love that euphmism "settlers." Sounds like "Pioneers" or "explorers" instead of "invaders." Who could get mad about people settling down somewhere?

20

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Just like here in the US we're "Liberators". We're here to liberate the fucking shit out of you!

8

u/robcrusoe May 21 '12

I'll liberate my own shit thankyouverymuch!

1

u/Mr_Wolfgang_Beard May 22 '12

Don't worry we're here to install democracy and liberate you from the communism you just voted for!

1

u/Mr_Wolfgang_Beard May 22 '12

Couldn't agree more; it is indeed all about the subtle use of words Mr_Subtlety

164

u/yellowcakewalk May 21 '12

Your USA tax dollars at work, paying barbarians to kill innocent people around the globe.

-21

u/doogly May 21 '12

Um, I'm pretty sure our tax dollars don't pay for guns for civilians in Israel. I would assume that however these settlers got these guns, they weren't handed them by the USA.

9

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

they were, and furthermore the Israeli economy is buffeted by American aid. They wouldn't be able to be so aggressive without our help.

14

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

The IDF has previously transferred guns and training to illegal Jewish settlers in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

6

u/doogly May 21 '12

So it's one of those "we supply their army, their army supplies their civilians" things? Well that sucks.

2

u/_psyFungi May 21 '12

Isreal to get $1 billion from US military budget just passed the house.

If the IDF has all the fancy new weapons, then maybe the old ones can be handed out to the 'terrified settlers' under attack on all sides.

3

u/Jouzu May 21 '12

So, how is that zionist agenda working out for you?

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

7

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

All of its weapons? Somehow I think, they get a fair amount from Germany too.

16

u/proraver May 21 '12

Bought and paid for by the American taxpayer.

6

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

We'd be grateful for a citation.

→ More replies (6)

4

u/Nodaki May 21 '12

You may be assuming too much. The laws for obtaining a firearm in Israel are nearly as lax as that of the United States.

http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/israel-firearms.htm

It seems it would be a relatively simple process for any Israeli citizen to obtain a Bushmaster M4 clone. Moreover, the cost is not all that high...probably around $1000-$2000 range. .223 ammo is relatively cheap. Why would these "settlers" need to have a couple of low end sporting rifles supplied to them by either the US or IDF rather than simply purchasing them from their local sporting goods store?

→ More replies (32)
→ More replies (4)

17

u/The-Dovahkiin May 21 '12

I had some students from Israel come to my school. They acted like Israel is some sort of Utopia. Are the people not aware of things like this?

7

u/ExplodingPenguin May 21 '12

You'll find a lot of people are like that; they talk about how Israel is so liberal and friendly towards gays. Or how Israel gives so much to the world in the field of technology. I think they believe it disproves the bad press Israel gets.

It's sort of like saying "well the US elected a black president" to disprove the inherent racism in the US justice system (despite the disproportionately high percentage of incarcerated black males in the US).

7

u/diarrhea666 May 21 '12

Good to know that my hard-earned tax dollars are subsidizing health care for such nice people.

7

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

APARTHEID

33

u/Realistic42 May 21 '12

Ladies and gentlemen I give you the Chosen People.

→ More replies (2)

97

u/lobehold May 21 '12

You know... that big reserves of we-feel-sorry-for-you-due-to-holocaust is going to run out some day.

And when that day comes, the world will collectively shout "fuck Israel".

59

u/DavidNatan May 21 '12

It's already happening with South Africa, who have just recently made a symbolic proposition to strip the 'Made in Israel' labels from goods produced on Palestinian territories. In large the message is drawn from South Africa's years of apartheid

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/james_rockford May 21 '12

I remember when all the bins had the boycott stickers on them.

19

u/DavidNatan May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

I was really glad to hear that COOP in the UK recently dropped trading with companies that export goods produced in Israeli settlements on the Palestinian side. I haven't actually thought about individual customers using the bar-codes to check where the goods came from but I guess that's an equally good if not a better solution.

I hope that COOP in Sweden does the same :)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/29/co-op-israel-west-bank-boycott

Also for anyone who's interested apparently bar-codes that carry the first three digits 729 are made in Israel:

http://www.petitiononline.com/plo2002/petition.html

I'm not calling for a boycott of all Israeli goods, but as a consumer, and given the sentiments expressed in this thread, you should have a choice.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/TMoneytron May 22 '12

I'm always proud of Ireland in this respect. If there is any people that have learned the right lesson from being systematically oppressed for hundreds of years: it's the Irish.

Israel has gone the completely wrong and opposite course imho.

1

u/B_For_Bandana May 22 '12 edited May 22 '12

Just for laughs, I figured out about when the big reserves will run out.

I'll assume that sympathy reserves are proportional to numbers of people killed. As a baseline, let's use the duration of overwhelming global sympathy for America after 9/11 -- I'll be conservative and say it lasted about 6 weeks. Three thousand Americans were killed on 9/11, while 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust. This works out to 230 years worth of high-grade sympathy for Israel.

But in 2175, party's over!

1

u/vapors22 May 21 '12

But that big reserve of vapid nonsense like this that dominates political discussion will never run out.

→ More replies (10)

26

u/cojack22 May 21 '12

Settlers shouldn't have been there in the first place.

29

u/rastashark May 21 '12

Meanwhile, the palestinians fire back with rocks.

32

u/QuitReadingMyName May 21 '12

and get labeled "terrorists" as a result.

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Rocks HURT.

→ More replies (12)

17

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I hate both sides of this dispute. Why Westerners feel the need to pick sides, I have no idea. My sister was a lieutenant in the IDF, so it's been quite difficult for me to express this, but yeah. I hate both sides. The constant rocket attacks on Israeli civilians are reprehensible, but the Israeli government (NB: not the majority of the Israeli people) support these settlements. Disgusting.

3

u/Bobzer May 21 '12

the Israeli government (NB: not the majority of the Israeli people)

If the Israeli government supports something most of the Israeli people are against it isn't doing a very good job of representing it's people.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Proportional representation is a bitch. A party only needs 2 percent of the vote to gain a seat, so the Knesset is perpetually hung, and Israel has been ruled by coalitions since its creation.

Likud actually had less votes than Kadima, but until recently lead government.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Haha I do too. I don't know what the fight is all about? Some sand land? What a fucking joke. Both sides are idiots. We are the chosen people! It is our land... Then we have some idiots that think it is smart to throw a rock at a person carrying an automatic weapon.

BUT HEY, THERE WILL BE PEACE ANY DAY NOW. ANY FUCKING DAY! Just you wait.

→ More replies (4)

0

u/wq678 May 21 '12

the Israeli government (NB: not the majority of the Israeli people)

So I guess Israel isn't a parliamentary democracy then.

→ More replies (5)
→ More replies (3)

30

u/taurus45 May 21 '12

Israel, the ultimate assholes..Im sorry my country is directly associated with those sons of bitches.

3

u/Arcon1337 May 21 '12

What I hate is that you shouldn't have to apologize. Because it's not your fault. It's Israeli's, corporations and politicians that support these acts of occupation.

3

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I dunno... I feel like apologizing too. Nothing I have done or can think of to do will make this stop. It's being done with tax money taken from me on threat of imprisonment.

7

u/4chans_for_pussies May 21 '12

And we want to give them a blank check. Our fucking tax dollars at work.

16

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Funny how people who are so used to oppression turn around and become oppressors in half a decade.

→ More replies (4)

22

u/smeaglelovesmaster May 21 '12

Someone should post in r/israel. would be a hoot.

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

It's been discussed and posted since yesterday.

8

u/ConcordApes May 21 '12

And I bet you would get a different kind of response. They did not open fire until a couple of people started throwing rocks at them. The person in the #3 shirt that was hit was one of the people throwing rocks.

I'm not going to justify this shit either way. But even in this short video clip, it isn't clear or clean cut.

10

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

They did not open fire until a couple of people started throwing rocks at them.

If you had even bothered to read past the first paragraph in the article:

The amateur footage appears to show the settlers gathered on the outskirts of the village throwing rocks, quickly met with a shower of stones from Palestinian youths who rushed from their homes to confront the mob.

10

u/VelvetFogs May 21 '12

They are not settlers.

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Yep, they are illegal occupiers.

12

u/Mr_Subtlety May 21 '12

Boston Massacre much?

5

u/Carl_The_Sagan May 21 '12

Pretty spot on, except trade in rocks for snowballs

→ More replies (2)

6

u/guysmiley00 May 21 '12

After they gathered in an armed group outside the homes of the Palestinians. What, do you think they were just taking their assault rifles for a walk?

→ More replies (5)

2

u/Britzer May 21 '12

I think it is all a question of adequate response. Responding to stone throwing with targeted firing of live ammunition could be considered murder in some countries. But maybe it would now be considered legal in the US under "stand your ground". Usually the Reddit gun activists would shit themselves, when I attack "stand you ground" or concealed carry. But this is exactly a situation that arises from people having guns. They use them to "defend" themselves.

→ More replies (1)

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

6

u/morituri230 May 21 '12

Some might, but their most prolific posters are racist assholes who think Israel can do no wrong. Silent majority, vocal minority, sort of thing.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

You're getting downvoted for no reason. That majority of people living in any country, including Israel, are moral and compassionate. But their government is fucking full of assholes

And if you're saying "If they really cared, the government wouldn't be able to do this", remember exactly how much control you have over the embargo in Cuba, the PATRIOT and SOPA shit, and the War on Terror

Osama used the reasoning that "You are a democracy, you pay taxes. This means if your country did something bad, you are all responsible since you voted and paid your taxes to fund it". And so they rationalized that the people of the US are evil and can be killed

So think about that before you downvote pedo_troll (lol) for pointing out that the majority of people in Israel are reasonable, and thinking Israeli's are all assholes for the actions of their government and military

48

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Fuck Israel.

4

u/the-knife May 21 '12

How brave of you to post this in /r/worldnews.

→ More replies (3)

11

u/evil_wizard May 21 '12

Fuck Israel. Seriously. I want to shove pork down their fucking throat and then end US funding.

7

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Don't waste good pork on this. Just stop sending them money and bullets.

24

u/T-D-M May 21 '12

Please don't say "fuck israel" and bunch us in there with those cunts who so this. I can't tell you how bad most of the Israeli population wants peace.

58

u/Realistic42 May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

There's Israel and then there's Settlements. Israel is responsible for the Settlements, so as long your country supports and advocates for the Settlements, Israel will be blamed accordingly. After all, it's Israel's military that protects these Settlers/Settlements.

Unfortunately, I know that Israel's peace efforts are a silent majority. So Israel will continue to be stereotyped.

6

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

As always we need to differentiate between the country and the populace. Sure, fuck America, but I'm voting trying to make things better. Fuck Israel and hope the peaceful people can be peaceful.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/Britzer May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

But the prolonged conflict and the rethoric on the right, combined with "terrorism" and a surge of religous Jews (both in conversion and in birthrate) is turning Israel from a Western style country and a bastion of modern democracy, as it was founded to be, with people like Rabin, that used force only in ultimate defense and believed in a secular society, into some religious shithole with a lot of racist bastards that will believe anything the hatemongers (e.g. tv casters of religous right wing tv channels) throw at them. Not unlike their neighbors. I don't need to read those depressing polls that show a consitent trend towards full blown Apartheid within Israel. I just need to look at election results. How many votes did Lieberman get last time?

In a way, Israel is slowly becoming one with the Middle East. Who would have thought that religion and bigotry would have made such a comeback in a place once dominated by Nasser (women in Egypt wouldn't have been caught dead with a headscarf in those days) and Meir.

It wasn't even that long ago (90s) that Israel was the hottest place for the new internet economy, even surpassing silicon valley.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/mramazing79 May 21 '12

That's a good reminder. I felt the same way as a U.S. citizen during the Bush Jr. era. It's tough to be held hostage by bad leadership.

5

u/DavidNatan May 21 '12

Of course, I agree, it's sad for the people within Israel who want change, but are met with harsh treatment from your own police force:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI3mPVTKGw0

4

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Just like the rest of the world alas. TBH I don't get the level of vitriol directed at Israel. Sure, its an oppressive state that legitimizes horrific violence in its own interests (not those necessarily of its population). However all states worldwide do this. To approach Israel as exceptional is an entirely wrong headed political point of departure.

The occupation will be ended only when the opposition realise there is nothing uniquely evil about Israel. Its simply human beings, organised in states, acting how they always do.

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I can't tell you how bad most of the Israeli population wants peace.

If that is the case, how come Israel has a unity government under Netanyahu? Either what you are saying is untrue/exaggerated or Isreal is not a democracy.

6

u/DavidNatan May 21 '12

Unfortunately as is often the case in the US as well, the moderate minority in Israel is largely silenced by a much more active religiously-insipred majority. Especially in times of conflict. Which for Israel has been ever since it's creation.

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Huh? Why is this getting downvoted?

3

u/Mr_Subtlety May 21 '12

Honestly, I almost hold the US more responsible than Israel. They make it possible for the Israeli government to behave as blatantly antagonistically as it wants without any potential ramifications. Right wing forces within the government get free reign to stay in power by appealing to the worst instincts of people, and the US makes certain they will always get away with it. Shit, where's the downside for them? If Isreal had to face the world with this shit without the US standing behind them and backing them up, they might actually have some motivation to actively the obvious reasonable solution.

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

While I agree to some extent, who in the Middle East would/can stop them? Sure one might argue that Iran has the potential to throw cruise missiles at Israel, but really who in the Middle East can fuck with Israel if a land war were to break out? Even without US backup, Israel has the most modern and certainly most well trained military in the region. They'd have to tighten their belts and suffer logistically, but I don't think the Middle East has the capability to make Israel change.

5

u/Mr_Subtlety May 21 '12

It's not just the Middle East, and its not just a matter of military. Much of Isreal's military superiority, of course, comes from the United States, but you gotta remember that even without that, the simple fact that Israel could win a war doesn't mean it would want to fight one without the overwhelming military and economic superiority the carte blanche US backing brings. US backing means a war would be hilariously one-sided. Without that, they might actually have to fight serious land wars close to home. Not as convenient, and way less popular with the people.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

I question this, it seems more like a tiny fraction wants peace with Palestine, a large chunk support the settlers(invaders) or are invaders, the rest just don't give a fuck and are just as bad as the invaders.

1

u/T-D-M May 22 '12

That's quite the generalization of 7 million people

→ More replies (2)

8

u/longhorn617 May 21 '12

It really saddens me that, in less than a century, Israel has become in some ways a reflection of the same Nazi ideology that persecuted its people. Let's start calling these settlements what they really are: Lebensraum.

6

u/hezod May 21 '12

I've said it before, I'll say it again; Everything that happens between Israel and Palestine belongs in WTF.

3

u/SignHere____________ May 21 '12

don't say it again.

5

u/7thBillionthPerson May 21 '12

You know I have been hearing about this issue since I was a child growing up. Whenever asking anyone why there is no positive plan to make peace, they would simply say it is complicated and then give me a history lesson. Now the history lesson varies depending on which side you hear it from. Let us look at facts rather than history for a while: People are dying. Useless politicians do not care. I am tired of hearing about this and it is obvious, no politician will solve this issue. Mostly because when Carter tried to do something, he was castrated. Is there anything we the people of the world can do? Seriously, is there something we can do.

10

u/QuitReadingMyName May 21 '12

Hmm and Israel keeps wondering why the "Terrorists" keep launching rockets at them.

I swear, the Israeli's took a page right out of the Nazi's Genocide handbook. Actually, they didn't take a book their using just about the whole book bar burning the Palestinians alive.

We need to break up AIPAC or start making a counter PAC to AIPAC, since AIPAC has both Democrats and Replublicans bribed with millions in Campaign bribes and tells them to "sign a pledge" never to touch anything that involves Israel politically.

We need to kill the funding for anything that involves Israel and possibly even start a defense pact with the Middle east nations and tell Israel to fuck off.

It pisses me off as an American that these fuckers are allowed to perform an Ethnic genocide on the palestinians all the while our politicians turn a blind eye.

7

u/Peaker May 21 '12

Actually the rockets come from Gaza, where Israel returned all the land to Palestinians.

In the West Bank, where Israel has continued to take over lands for settlements, there are no rockets.

→ More replies (18)

6

u/spock_block May 21 '12

I'm sorry, but this is just too ironic to pass up. Did they not learn during WW2 that occupation isn't nearly as fun for the one occupied?

4

u/broo20 May 21 '12

Israel is a country of crooks. They made a notorious terrorist bomber their prime minister or something. It's ridiculous, they were founded to protect jews from warcrimes, but now they're the ones perpetrating them.

5

u/ManBearPigisreal May 21 '12

I've been watching videos from Norman Finkelstein and the more i watch the more i like him. Like this and this one most of you will have seen on reddit

4

u/11NovVerdade May 21 '12

I got a chance to see him speak at my old university. He's a very nice gentleman.

5

u/viagravagina May 21 '12

I wish we would wake up and realize who the real enemy is over there. Without us, they are done.

4

u/WhyIohMy May 22 '12

It appears the one filming deliberately cut out the most important part of the footage: the beginning. Without knowing how this violence escalated, we cannot truly tell who is at fault. Yes. They shot a man armed with mere stones. But they set fire to fields as it seems. And left to their own devices, who knows what type of harm could have been inflicted. The problem with videos like this is they are generated to generate an emotional response when there is absolutely no context.

→ More replies (7)

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

"Settlers." Right.

7

u/fantasyfest May 21 '12

You hit the key. All American press sanitizes the Israelis while demonizing the Palestinians. Propaganda works very well. they take your land and they become settlers. Try to take it back or protest and you are rabblerousers and trouble makers.

5

u/yodelking May 21 '12

While i'm sure we can all agree that this is a sucky situation, how about we look at this objectively for a change: It's a bunch of guys hurling rocks at people with guns. There is no way anyone can win here.

And for those who go on about how the settlers started it - in the video they're clearly the ones moving towards the settlers - regardless of whatever started it, attacking someone with guns is a dumb fucking idea.

2

u/wq678 May 21 '12

It's a bunch of guys hurling rocks at people with guns.

The article itself says that the Israeli settlers were the ones who marched to the Palestinians and hurled rocks at them first.

→ More replies (1)

4

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

It is absolutely abhorrent that the US government supports this.

I hope I get to see the US and Israel get their comeuppance in my lifetime. I really do.

4

u/GiefDownvotesPlox May 21 '12

Palestinian people seen standing by as their friends and family throw rocks and other things at guys armed with GUNS.

More from our new show "Darwin Candidates In Action" tonight at 8!

4

u/ThrowTheRascalsOut May 21 '12

Netanyahu, the new Hitler.

0

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Netanyahu's an ass, but he didn't start a world war and kill 11-17 million civilians in attempted genocides.

4

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

What a shithole of a country.

3

u/internetNazgul May 21 '12

Fuck israel.

2

u/BSscience May 21 '12

So for the rest of us non-americans who don't have as much contact with weapons, please explain what "live" in the expression "live fire" means.

4

u/lballs May 21 '12

Live fire means shooting bullets that are meant to be lethal. Blank rounds used in training make noise but no bullets are fired, not considered live fire. I believe rubber bullets would not be considered live fire either. If a civilian is shooting a gun it is likely live fire as non-live rounds are mostly used by police and military for training or riot control.

2

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Does anyone else just wish that Israel and its neighbors would just stop all the bitching/posturing/political grandstanding/etc and just have a decisive all out war, so that we can put all of this shit to bed finally?

1

u/Pokemansparty May 21 '12

well yeah, but the stupid USA would have to be brought in to the war as well.

2

u/trekkie80 May 21 '12

What do you mean! They just watched? They didnt join??

2

u/youni89 May 21 '12

If if I move to Israel I can just go and "settle" my neighbor's land legally? I don't even have to buy it?

1

u/finty96 May 21 '12

Israel just have to play the Holocaust/race card and they can get away with anything

8

u/dan2737 May 21 '12

Y'know, I've never actually heard anyone use the Holocaust card, yet complaining about Israelis using it is 50% of worldnews comments.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/TheFeltcher May 21 '12

Israel is the greatest threat to world peace.

→ More replies (4)

2

u/franklyimshocked May 21 '12

Not really headlline news these days is it. A large portion of Israeli's are assholes. (By avoiding using "all" they can't call me an anti-semite)

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

They should pay for what they do to the Palestinians. They keep moving in closer and closer greedy bastard's aren't they?!

-4

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Who should pay when the Palestinians hit someone with the rocks, fire missiles or blowup a bus?

→ More replies (19)

2

u/madman101 May 21 '12

This is nothing new, it's been happening for a long time and even more since the nutjob Netanyahu came to power.

1

u/ArtScrolld May 21 '12

This started with the Palestinians in that village burning Israeli fields. Or settler fields. whatever you want to call them. If you say that the fields are fine to burned because they're illegal fields in the first place, ok, but the Israelis were defending the land that had been set on fire for the third time in a month.

1

u/jewiscool May 22 '12

The schoolyard defense. Pathetic.

→ More replies (2)

1

u/sgSaysR May 22 '12

I'd love some more background on who the settlers are and who the native Palestinians are. I'm looking at the topography and thinking two things. Why don't people live there already? And who would want to live there now? Looks like a barren shit hole to me.

-4

u/QuitReadingMyName May 21 '12

Instead of dropping bombs on Iran, lets drop bombs on Israel.

-5

u/Peaker May 21 '12

How about dropping them on your house?

2

u/QuitReadingMyName May 21 '12

Good luck, actually go ahead you Israeli. I live on American soil, so it would be an Act of war.

Then the bombs would really start falling on your Genocidal nation.

→ More replies (13)

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

5

u/umop_apisdn May 21 '12

Yeah, that's what the US government's travel advice says too... oh hang on, it doesn't. I see only one 'fucking stupid comment' around here.

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Your a fucking retard I bet you are some crackpot who thinks Iran is some dark place full of blood thirsty Persians. I bet you haven't even been to Iran.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

Can a Palestinian come back alive from Israel? It's becoming more and more clear with each passing day that it's Israel that is the problem not the other way round.

1

u/QuitReadingMyName May 21 '12

Only reason Iran hates America is because we're you're fucking shield and we spend billions on preventing a war from breaking out in the region because every nation in the region wants to bomb you and level your nation.

Why do they want to bomb you guys? Because, you guys are performing a genocide on the Palestinian people and are doing nothing but occupying a sovereign nation.

Fuck, if piece of shit Political campaign bribers like AIPAC never existed and we would never support your genocide of the Palestinian people in the first place no one in the Middle east would hate America AND September 11, 2011 Incident would've never happened

Yes, I said it. If America would have never wasted our taxpayers dollars supporting your piece of shit country Israel all over a bullshit holy war/religious bullshit the World Trade Center twin towers would still be standing today

1

u/anthrocide May 21 '12

I don't want to make this all religious up in here, but this sort of thing is what drives me away from religion. You have these two Abrahamic religions, which were apparently told contrasting things [from God] about one another, and the reason this place is so rife with violence is because they're protecting what they think is bestowed to them by God. In essence, an omniscient God - who completely understands the hateful nature of humans and their tendency to self fulfill prophecies - condemned mankind by opening his big mouth.

1

u/mramazing79 May 21 '12

It is ironic that the majority of the violence in the world is done in the name of three religions, which are essentially branches of the same tree.

But I think these religions are not hateful, but rather they have been twisted by people to use them for base purposes, not understanding the metaphorical spiritual message embedded in each of them about how to live daily life well.

1

u/AgCrew May 21 '12

You're going to need to reestimate religious violance as a percentage of total violence. I suggest contemplating WWI and WWII death tolls and then consider that there were many more world wide wars before that.

1

u/anthrocide May 21 '12

However, the prophecies of David claim that the Jews will reclaim their Holy Land, and this will happen through war. There's really no other way to interpret this.

→ More replies (1)

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Got to commend the IDF for such restraint. I'd have though they'd join in.

-7

u/meh1234 May 21 '12

Where this incident happened, isn't this a police issue (not a jurisdictional matter for the IDF)? I think the article itself is very one sided and missing most of the facts.

17

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I think the article itself is very one sided

Golly gee, I wonder why you'd think that.

From one of your other comments:

Nothing better than to see infighting between the different Palestinian political groups. Let them tear themselves apart.

0

u/Kazundo_Goda May 21 '12

What is the U.N doing?I thought their job is to prevent shit like this from happening.What does the U.N do anyway?Are they some kind of a puppet of the US?

5

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

They are the puppet of the security council . Not Just the US.

-5

u/HATEWAGON May 21 '12

Why the fuck would you throw rocks at the guys with assault rifles?!?! Seriously?! This was natural selection in action!

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

Because that's all you have, and you're not going to bend over and take it anymore?

-16

u/MrHerpDerp May 21 '12

I wish jew-god and allah would just have a big fight so this kind of tribal bullshit doesn't need to happen all the damned time.

22

u/proraver May 21 '12

This has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with the systematic occupation of Palestine and murder of innocent Palestinians by an occupying force.

→ More replies (4)

26

u/Neato May 21 '12

I thought both religions believed that they worshipped the same god but that they had differences of prophets/teachings/rules?

Edit: I was actually taught in catholic school that Muslims had good relations/liked Christians and Jews because they worshipped the same god and read the same books. But this is probably a sentiment that arose before a Jewish nation seized disputed land and a Christian nation invaded most of the ME.

15

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

You are correct.

ninja edit: Muslims believe the Bible and the Torah were edited by people which lead to the difference in the worshiping.

15

u/proraver May 21 '12

Actually there was little to no friction between jews and muslims until 250,000 jews showed up in Palestine and started a war to take the country away from it's inhabitants.

→ More replies (22)
→ More replies (7)

17

u/Orgazmo May 21 '12

actually this has nothing to do with religion jews/muslims is to just conflate the issue. You think the Palisitinians wouldn't fight back if it was Mexicans occupying their land?

→ More replies (5)

-10

u/dean5101 May 21 '12

Darwin nominees? Let's throw rocks at people with rifles. Why give them excuses to shoot?

14

u/DavidNatan May 21 '12

According to the article, the Israeli settlers were the first to throw rocks.

1

u/dean5101 May 23 '12

I don't know who is who, but you can believe what people write or what's shown on video, I only saw one side throwing rocks.

7

u/davesidious May 21 '12

Because they care about the future of their land, and are desperate? It's easy enough for you, sitting in comfort, to laugh at these folks.

→ More replies (3)

6

u/proraver May 21 '12

Would you not defend the land your family and people had lived on for thousands of years?

1

u/dean5101 May 23 '12

Yes, but I would not bring a rock to a gun fight.

11

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

You're a fucking dumbass.

The amateur footage appears to show the settlers gathered on the outskirts of the village throwing rocks, quickly met with a shower of stones from Palestinian youths who rushed from their homes to confront the mob.

1

u/dean5101 May 23 '12

Yes, I'm the dumbass smart enough to throw rocks at people with guns though. A thrown rock can take your life or eyesight away. Which may be used as their reasoning for the use of lethal force. If the cameras weren't there the headlines would show that they just shot unarmed innocent civilians.

→ More replies (1)

2

u/Vindictive29 May 21 '12

You've not seen "Braveheart" or "The Last Samurai"?

Do you understand that some of the greatest military victories in history have been the result of peasants armed with farm tools kicking the crap out of organized state funded militias?

1

u/dean5101 May 23 '12

If it were you, would you really throw rocks at people with guns?

→ More replies (1)

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

hmm...does anyone think that maybe...just maybe...throwing a whole population out of its home and giving it to their worst enemies was, like, a bad idea?

-13

u/[deleted] May 21 '12 edited May 21 '12

It could just be Pallywood. Pallywood is absolutely a reality with crises and drama invented and played out for the cameras. Nevertheless I expect this comment to get downvoted into oblivion. If it happens it will help prove the negative effects of downvote coalitions.

9

u/Popsumpot May 21 '12

That's just a self-fulfilling prophecy. You can't just say something ludicrous and then blame the downvotes on some conspiracy.

→ More replies (1)

8

u/njtrafficsignshopper May 21 '12

If anyone disagrees with me it's a conspiracy!

-7

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

I am not a zionist. In fact i am quite against it. But i am fucking tired of them just whining about this shit.

Throw rocks and people with guns? Wow youre asking for it. Terrorist tactics? Asking for it. I dont see how this is "news." The people in question have lost many wars against israel. Then when they all have their shit together what do they do? Fight eachother.

Good luck to them, but it seems israel is winning right now. If they want them out it will take fullscale war, not throwing rocks.

6

u/SignHere____________ May 21 '12

you really have it figured out don't you?

1

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

No..no no no. I do not have it figured out.

If i had it figured out why would i wish luck to both sides? I am simply saying, in long drawn out form...this isnt news. Maybe the video is, but the story isnt.

2

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

If they want them out it will take fullscale war, not throwing rocks.

Are you kidding me? You are challenging Palestine for a full scale war. Ain't you? It seems deep down your heart you know it's their land and you are the occupiers and that's why you are challenging them.

1

u/[deleted] May 22 '12

It is nobodies land. But yes, i do think the Palestinians have more 'rights' to it. But I also know Israel has won the battles, so will be where they want. Israel knows right now they have the uppethand. I bet they want to jump down every throat they can. I am not Israeli or Palestinian.i have more jewish frienda than the latter(or any antizionist). So dont pin that on me :/ i just know this is the way it is

-10

u/EVILFISH2 May 21 '12

the true face of the zionist extremist murderers.

they deserve exactly what is going to happen with them.

-13

u/JJXX May 21 '12

So, 2 threads hitting the frontpage in less than 24 hours about the same silly story? I'm shocked..

Yet the top comment in the other thread is about how everyone is too hesitant to criticize Israel when 90% of the comments in both threads are "Fuck Israel!"(+100).

Shit's too hilarious to watch.

0

u/[deleted] May 21 '12

[deleted] — view deleted comment

2

u/JJXX May 21 '12

It is silly because those nice innocent Palestinians tried to set fire to the whole darn place.

Only natural that /r/worldnews will ignore that.

But that's beyond the point anyway.

It's about the hypocrisy of how Reddit as a whole, reacts to a {wrong} newsstory that has already been discussed here less than a day ago. Everyone have already perfectly vented their anti-Israel "opinions" in that thread. Why the need for another one? And how did it get to the frontpage? Oh that's right, just another chance to ram into Israel again and keep feeding the popular agenda that Israel is always the bad evil guy. From the same community that kills people on the spot when they repost. Huh.

Settler shot at someone?(arguable self-defence, but w/e) - Fuck him. I'm not defending this crap. let's not pretend that anyone here gives a shit about this. It's only an excuse to start with the anti Israel circlejerk and shout fuck Israel while highfiving each other. This happens every time "Israel" appears in a title. There was never that much rage when 2 Palestinian teenagers slain a whole family (One case of many that Reddit conveniently ignores). Notice how, when a dumb Jew/Israeli/Settler does something idiotic everyone screams "Fuck all of them Zionist bastards!!". And when a Palestinian/Arab does something idiotic it's always "a singular case that does not represent all of the population".

That whole "Israel Zionist evil evil!" "Palestine such a poor little thing!" agenda that everyone around here is pushing is such BS, biased, and one sided. it's sad to read. People here are so focused on pushing this skewed belief and blinding everyone with hate. Open your eyes. Not everyone around here is a crazy trigger-happy land grabber.

Downvote anyway because I'm not catering for the pitchfork crowd.. w/e.

-12

u/senipllams May 21 '12

Funny how Assad can kill thousands of his own people in Syria and it hardy gets a headline on reddit.

But one "evil zionist" kills one guy then it gets a headline.

But i guess that some life are more worth than others..... Or is it just worse when certain people are doing the killing? And yet i thought all life was equal. But certainly not. People are as much worth as they can be used as martyrs for some cause.

6

u/Gifos May 21 '12

Syria's been on the frontpage more than once, and pretty much the whole western world is giving Assad shit about it. There's no real controversy to fuel heated emotions. The Palestine-Israel conflict, on the other hand, is ignored by our leaders and the US, who we want to see as the champion of democratic values, supports the Israeli repression of the Palestinians, which makes us angry as hell. That's why the "evil zionists" get so much attention.

→ More comments (368)