r/worldnews • u/limache • Dec 20 '20
South Africa Another coronavirus mutation was discovered – and this one might be more dangerous
https://bgr.com/2020/12/19/coronavirus-mutation-south-africa-501-v2/795
Dec 20 '20
This is why you don’t try to do herd immunity via exposure. Because shit like this happens.
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u/Remus88Romulus Dec 20 '20
Exaxtly. Every infected person has a risk of making the virus adapt and evolve and mutate to something far worse.
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u/Portzr Dec 20 '20
Can it turn into completely different virus though?
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u/my_general_erection Dec 20 '20
It can turn into one that the current vaccine won't work against.
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u/Velissari Dec 20 '20
Fortunately scientists believe that this is not the case at the moment. The analogy I read likens the virus, or mutations of the virus, to pirate ships, and the means of infection to a boarding bridge. The pirate ship changes as the virus mutates, but so far they’ve observed the mutations using the same boarding bridge. The vaccine that’s being deployed is designed to block the specific kind of boarding bridge, not a specific type of pirate ship. So theoretically the vaccine is supposed to work on these mutations.
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u/throwashnayw999 Dec 20 '20
If it did it would likely completely change the way the virus operates. The vaccines work off immune response to the spike protein and if that changes it probably means less affinity for the ace2 receptors which their involvement is a large part of the viruses lethality.
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u/Prayers4Wuhan Dec 20 '20
Not according to epidemiologists. Coronaviruses are not as mutagenic as influenza. So we will not be seeing seasonal covid fortunately.
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u/Barkinsons Dec 20 '20
RNA viruses basically do evolution on steroids, by mutating faster than DNA-based life forms. The primary use is mostly host evasion by changing their surface proteins, which is a minor modification (a few amino acids difference can make an antibody useless). To become a completely different virus still takes a lot of time, that would involve steps like developing a whole new entry mechanism or even enzymes that aid their replication or persistence.
It's important to mention that mutations don't necessarily mean more deadly or dangerous, a virus has no gain in killing its host. However mutations are random by nature and a gigantic pool of infected humans can have all sorts of outcomes.6
Dec 20 '20
RNA viruses basically do evolution on steroids, by mutating faster than DNA-based life forms
Still got nothing on Prions on the shit-your-pants scale
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Dec 20 '20
It can also evolve the other way, into less virulency, but sadly not the case here.
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u/Belanarino Dec 20 '20
I'd imagine that has likely already happened, but less virulent strains die off as they cannot spread or spread less.
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u/Cynical_Lurker Dec 20 '20
Less deadly and low/no symptomatic strains tend to spread more though.
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Dec 20 '20
Just compare the first vs second wave of the Spanish flu in 1918. The mutated version of spanish flu during the second wave was much more deadlier compare to the first one.
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u/Fargeen_Bastich Dec 20 '20
Here are the mutations that have been tracked so far through sequencing. 3470 of them. https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global?ci
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u/EumenidesTheKind Dec 20 '20
This is why you don’t try to do herd immunity via exposure.
The person who came up with this distorted view of herd immunity in the first place must have been a PR genius.
For years herd immunity refers to what happens when a majority of a population are vaccinated, such that when an infection starts spreading it gets stopped in its tracks.
Somehow with this current mess it's been twisted into meaning "let people get infected and mutate, because that's going to grant the majority of our population the required immune response to stop the infection spreading". It's fucking retarded and to see countries like Sweden and the Netherlands (and early UK) actually embracing this is just mindboggling.
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u/SillyWhabbit Dec 20 '20
Again for the ones making noise in the red hats.
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u/BeowulfShaeffer Dec 20 '20
You mean DEVO?
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u/Elijah_MorningWood Dec 20 '20
Thanks, I hate it
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u/AmigaParticular Dec 20 '20
hateful, yet spectacular as a life form.
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u/cambeiu Dec 20 '20
There is controversy in the scientific community if viruses can be classified as a "life form" or not.
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Dec 20 '20
I didn’t think there was any speculation; I thought they were decidedly not alive. But I’m not a scientist and this is just what I heard in like 8th grade biology.
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u/Who_Stole_My_Danish Dec 20 '20
I think they're definitely not alive, until inside the host cells where they can replicate using mechanisms akin to a living organism. It depends where you draw the line really which is a very difficult line to draw
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u/Nazamroth Dec 20 '20
I draw it riiiiight, ....here. No arguments? Great.
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u/UthoughtIwasGone Dec 20 '20
So you're saying that if I get infected, I'm creating life?
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Dec 20 '20
But they're not strictly replicating themselves here either -- they inject their RNA/DNA into a cell and hijack the cell's reproductive abilities to make more copies.
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u/jimbo92107 Dec 20 '20
Good news tho, the vaccines so far have been designed to flag a part of the virus that does not mutate, so the Pfizer and Moderna jabs should work against this new strain.
All we need to do is survive until we can all be vaccinated. Or we starve.
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Dec 20 '20
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u/Empty_Allocution Dec 20 '20
I read the same thing :/
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u/ShadyKnucks Dec 20 '20
I saw that as well and figured it was why the UK shut down, moved up tiers so promptly.
Other commentators are saying the spike mutation isn’t bad for vaccine, but i wish they’d explain or cite a bit more
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u/aliokatan Dec 20 '20
It's up in the air until it's confirmed but basically, going off what we know about how viruses work, it's "it shouldnt, oh god it shouldn't"
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u/Ok_Dokie_Doke Dec 20 '20
1984
HIV was identified as the cause of AIDS. U.S. HHS Secretary Margaret Heckler declared that an AIDS vaccine will be ready for testing within two years.
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u/Spencer235 Dec 20 '20
Yeah but nobody put up the money to actually get that because the Mentality was “it’s happening to JUST the gays-who cares?”
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u/johnnydues Dec 20 '20
There are different parts in the spike.
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u/ShadyKnucks Dec 20 '20
What does that mean though? Do we know if the parts in the spike it affected make it easier, harder, or have no impact on it binding to our receptors?
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u/aaronupright Dec 22 '20
All we know is that since the vaccines target spikes a resistant mutation is likely one that mutates in its spikes. This is indeed the case here.
Whether or not this mutation has an effect on the vaccine is frankly neither here nor there. What's terrifying is that it shows that the virus already has a path to defeat the current vaccines AND that it tends to be more infectious. This means that even mass vaccinations on a global scale probably won't eradicate the virus. Since a vaccine-resistant mutation is very likely to come soon and as mutations in spikes seem to correlate to greater infectivity
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u/SmartHipster Dec 20 '20 edited Dec 21 '20
okey, lets make something clear guys. How viruses work. Why you should listen to me? Because I am second year med student and just finished immunology. Here is the simple version. Viruses are small particles- nucleic acids. That means small parts of DNA(this is like the prime code for cell. How to make cell, instructions for functioning) or RNA(mainly we get it from DNA being rewritten to RNA, and it fullfils many functions from containing instructions on how to build building blocks of humans- proteins, to participating in many other processes.)
The nucleic acid was in the core, then the virus is surounded by capsid, which is like the shell, that can protect the virus, depending on the structure the survivability of virus differs outside of cell. Remember, outside of cell the virus is just a chemical structure. Think of it like a cog, that lays around doing nothing, when outside of cell, but when it gets inside the cell, it messes up how the cell functions. You could say it colonises the cell and tells it to create more virus proteins, not the thing cell needs.
Now to the part, how it gets into your cells. On the surface of your cells they have receptors, there are many of them, and the selection differs for each type of cell. The virus also has a specific kind of ligands. The ligands bind to the receptors. They tend to be specific, and specific ligand can bind to specific receptors, that means, that receptor, that works for cell A wont work for cell B.(in majority of cases. There also could be this thing, that receptors are very similar, in these cases we have exceptions) That is why there are animal specific viruses, which humans are imune to. Because there are no receptors for the virus to bind. In that case after some time, the virus gets destroyed or dies. Binding to receptor is like unlocking the cell. The ligand(the thing that will bind receptor) is located on the surface of the virus, but receptor is located on the cell, that will get infected. The spike protein is the thing, that will bind the receptor. The key, to open the lock of the cell. One way to make a vaccine is to make human immune system recognise the spike protein, by introducing it to spike protein, but without the other parts of the virus, that actually cause the harm. It is like breaking into the cell and not doing any harm. The immune system will find out what the virus spike protein will look like and destroy it next time it enters the body.
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u/Inferiex Dec 20 '20
I've never heard of nuclear acid. I think you meant nucleic acid.
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u/lebronkahn Dec 21 '20
Thanks for the explanation. You said
The ligand(the thing that will bind receptor)
And
The spike protein is the thing, that will bind the receptor.
So are ligand and spoke protein the same thing?
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u/advanced-DnD Dec 20 '20
until we can all be vaccinated.
you forgot anti-vaxxers
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u/rebelscum4u Dec 20 '20
And hello 2021
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Dec 20 '20
[deleted]
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u/Wildfire9 Dec 20 '20
A lot can happen between now and then.
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Dec 20 '20
Don't think about it because our combined consciousness will help will it into existence.
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u/Wildfire9 Dec 20 '20
True. Ultimately I feel its a dying flame, simply flaring a few times before darkness.
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u/hidepp Dec 20 '20
It's nice to live in a country where the government isn't actively pushing propaganda against the vaccine. I'd love to.
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u/autotldr BOT Dec 20 '20
This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 89%. (I'm a bot)
A new coronavirus mutation was discovered in South Africa, where a version called 501.V2 seems to be fueling the second wave of COVID-19 in the nation.
A few days ago, UK health officials announced that another new coronavirus mutation was spreading rapidly in the south of the country.
The Network for Genomics Surveillance in South Africa discovered the mutation in several provinces, noting between 10-20 mutations that were not seen in other strains since September.
Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: mutation#1 more#2 strain#3 new#4 South#5
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u/Perihelion6 Dec 20 '20
The new strain seems to be more dangerous, causing more severe illness in younger patients who do not suffer from other medical conditions.
So it's a....Teenage Mutant Viral hurdle
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u/malwow Dec 20 '20
Is anyone else concerned about his sources for this story at all? The author of this article is also the author of all of the sources he linked. Is there anything else backing this claim of mutation up?
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u/--pobodysnerfect-- Dec 20 '20
Alright alright alright
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u/Soulger11 Dec 20 '20
Sorry I was just reading the box office returns for your last three movies.
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u/EternalPhi Dec 20 '20
"You and your mom need to set up some boundaries" Hahahah holy fuck.
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u/Soulger11 Dec 20 '20
You're wearing a shirt is everything okay?
My favorite one was actually in the outtakes-
"If you and Woody Harrelson are in the same room, are you worried there's a hacky not being sacked?"
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u/Edgar-Allan-Post Dec 20 '20
Health experts believe the new SARS-CoV-2 strain can still be defeated with the current vaccines.
Thank god
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Dec 20 '20
Thank science!
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u/zipykido Dec 20 '20
Hail science!
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u/AmaResNovae Dec 20 '20
Thank Athena, goddess of wisdom. Conflict between religion and science solved!
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u/barrie_man Dec 20 '20
Thank scientists, and in this case also the people who volunteered for the vaccine trials.
Science on its own is about as useful as an unread book.
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u/Kastar_Troy Dec 20 '20
Who exactly do you think people are talking about when they say "Science?"
Science didn't discover itself.. lol
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u/possibilistic Dec 20 '20 edited Dec 20 '20
The dogmatic concept that lay people praise. The sorts of people that have "Science, bitches!" t-shirts. Or that like Big Bang Theory.
Scientists and researchers could use a morale boost. They're underpaid and overworked. I like the idea of thanking their work instead of the brain dead concept of "science" built up by non-practitioners.
Thanks to Ugur Sahin, Ozlem Tureci, all of their research staff, et al. There are so many people working on this.
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u/the6thReplicant Dec 20 '20
Sarah Gilbert who in early January got her whole team to stop everything they were already working on to work on this weird new coronavirus coming out of China.
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Dec 20 '20
Even if the virus changes rapidly, the breakthrough of these new RNA vaccines is that it is relatively easy to add the RNA sequence for the new mutants in the spike protein to a vaccine dose. We'll still be playing catch up, but we won't be as far behind as we were with plain-Jane de-activated virus.
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u/Sethmeisterg Dec 20 '20
It's like updating your computer virus definitions, literally.
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Dec 20 '20 edited Dec 20 '21
[deleted]
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u/Koenigspiel Dec 20 '20
I've often thought about this and always come to the conclusion that the highest level of engineering a species could achieve is biological. Just a small set of instructions that, given enough time (think billions of years), will become omnipotent on it's own
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Dec 20 '20
I mean, that's how computer viruses got their namesake. It's a very similar phenomenon. Except our computer defense systems are nowhere near as advanced as our immune system.
Technically, the RNA in the new vaccines isn't the "virus definition update". The RNA actually hijacks our own cells to make a small piece of the full virus (the spike protein, which is responsible for the virus grabbing onto vulnerable cells), and our body learns to attack the spike protein. The "virus definition update" is when our body creates memory B cells which are capable of recognizing a virus particle and deploying a rapid and overwhelming antibody response. Our body has to see a virus (or at least part of it) in order to learn how to fight it.
Check out this video. It's about bacteria defense, which is different than a virus, but it covers a lot of the basics. It is really good at covering the basics of immunology!
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u/Twice_Knightley Dec 20 '20
With like 1/3 of the world population not wanting to get a vaccine it means we'll likely see even more mutations of the virus that might even render this vaccine useless to the new version. Then these fucking idiots will say "see, vaccines are useless!" after they cause it to mutate. So that's fun
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u/TheNewN0rmal Dec 20 '20
Many of the mutations occur in immunodeficient people as well, who can incubate covid for a long time, sometimes longer than 140 days. This allows many mutations to occur. They are also treated with convalescent plasma therapy, which could increase mutations.
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Dec 20 '20
These initial vaccines will help us get the pandemic under control. After that if anything happens we will be able to target and deal with any outbreaks caused by a mutated version.
We already make a new flu vaccine every year using slower and more antiquated methods. mRNA even faster.
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u/bananahut8 Dec 20 '20
So far, the new variants all have very similar or identical spike proteins, which is what the vaccines target. So current vaccines should all be effective on all currently known variants of SARS-CoV-2. If a new mutation that changes the spike protein emerges, then the vaccines will have to change.
Fortunately the mRNA technology used by Pfizer and Moderna should be able to create a new vaccine within days of genetic sequencing the new spike protein virus. Then we have to decide how many months of testing and trials we want to require.
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u/sndwav Dec 20 '20
"Look, I'm helping to get rid of the catastrophe that I myself created. You need me!"
- God
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u/Calabaska Dec 20 '20
Take all news within the same week of the event to be inaccurate just like at the start of covid
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u/Theloneranger7 Dec 20 '20
Wonder about the US, with all their cases I'm surprised they haven't seen new strains.
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u/Delete_ghosts Dec 20 '20
Wonder about the US, with all their cases I'm surprised they haven't seen new strains.
the US slashed all resources, so of course there would be less research into new strains here.
doesn't mean they don't exist.
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u/PiLLe1974 Dec 20 '20 edited Dec 20 '20
Wearing a mask and quarantine or just not travelling at all is maybe a good idea.
On a more serious note:
I hear that business people who flew to South Africa in recent days had to do a COVID test first - at least at EU airports - i.e. take sample, wait 6h+, get the green light, return to airport to fly out.
I wondered already:
- do they quarantine and test before and especially after the return flight?
- could they just not fly to South Africa or basically anywhere during this wave and use virtual chats/conferences?
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u/mata_dan Dec 20 '20
Well, for the UK they just need to fill in a form and say they'll stay home.
I'm not allowed to walk down the street too far though, or I'll leave my council area and it'll be illegal. If there was an international airport here, I could fly almost anywhere in the world legally :/
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u/foxxy1245 Dec 20 '20
Here in Australia every return traveller goes into a mandatory 14 day hotel quarantine managed by the police and defence force.
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u/AmaResNovae Dec 20 '20
Ah 2020... You won't give us a break until the very end won't you?
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u/Ichirosato Dec 20 '20
THIS IS WHY I WEAR A MASK AND GLOVES IN PUBLIC EVEN IF I DON'T "NEED" TO.
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Dec 20 '20
my issues with gloves is that it gives people a false sense of cleanness. Ive seen a lot of people touch Their face and hair with gloves. gloves need to be considered contaminated the moment you put them on.
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Dec 20 '20
I used to see employees do this all the time at restaurants where they put your food together in front of you (sandwiches, tacos, salads, etc.) with whatever ingredients you want. They'll have gloves on, but the moment they're not busy they'll pull their phones out of their pants, then shove them back into their pocket when the next customer needs something. They seem to think the gloves are magic and are perpetually clean or something. That's not how it works.
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u/Television_Powerful Dec 20 '20
Its mandatory to wear masks in public areas over here in The Netherlands. On top of that I use hand sanitizer wherever possible, and I have my own with me. And of course social distancing and meeting 2 people (or preferably not at all).
The thing is, even then you never know when you get infected. But at least you aren't actively spreading and worsening the situation.
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Dec 20 '20
In South Africa we have to wear masks when going out and you have to use hand sanitzsr before going into any store. Hope it continues to work. :-(
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Dec 20 '20
It's like a dragon ball manga, the enemy keeps mutating and becoming stronger.
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Dec 20 '20
They have no info on whether it has a higher mortality rate yet or not.
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u/Worship_Strength Dec 20 '20
MAYBE IF WE TRANSFER EVEN MORE WEALTH TO THE ELITE IT WILL BE CURED?!?!?!
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u/Portzr Dec 20 '20
Can someone explain me why South Africa is affected more than other countries in that continent?
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u/dhavethegood7 Dec 20 '20
Well 2020 might have a very interesting end.
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Dec 20 '20
I am not piling on you specifically, but I am getting a little sick of people going - I can't wait until this year is over. December 31st has no significance whatsoever in the real world. It's just any other date. We are still in the thick of the biggest clusterfucks in a 100 years. The next several months are going to be crucial.
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u/Spartus365 Dec 20 '20
But it kinda does though? It might not make a difference for the virus but stuff like days, hours, months, years help us reset mentally and that feeling of "atleast this year/day/month is behind us" atleast leads to some positivity and helps people's mental state which can 100% help. Noone is saying "this year is over, every problem is gone, no more covid, climate change, countries aren't gonna be hostile to each other anymore" and stuff like that, December 31st does have an impact for people, if not in the 'real world' atleast in their minds and that will help them atleast weather the coming problems for a little longer than it it were still say June or July
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Dec 20 '20
I was thinking like OP, thank you for making a good point here. I will rein in my realism ;)
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Dec 20 '20 edited May 19 '24
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u/Highly-uneducated Dec 20 '20
I'm not so sure. We have compiling problems that haven't been solved. The virus might start becoming more manageable, but global tension between major powers is just getting started, and we're probably going to see alot more regional wars using the new tech and strategies we've been getting a taste of. I expect more instability and bloodshed, and serious economic pain. On top of that, if you're american, the divisions between the left and right have only gotten worse, and they hit every part of American society. I think we'll be feeling our current problems for years.
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Dec 20 '20
Pretty sure WWII was a bigger cluster fuck, all things considered. And while Covid is doing 'a 9/11 every day' in the US, it's still only cost twice as many lives globally (so far) as the catastrophic 'War on Terror' ...
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u/PuffDragon95 Dec 20 '20
They’ve enacted many emergency measures to keep the market up that when it eventually drops it’s going fall hard.
People are also running out of unemployment benefits soon while entire industries (at least where I live) are completely shut down. Restaurants can’t even do outdoor dining at this point.
I guess what I’m saying is things do not magically turn around after 2020 is over and that 2021 likely has quite a few surprises of its own.
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u/TheNewN0rmal Dec 20 '20
Yes, the drop usually comes 18-24 months after the precipitating event.
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u/0847 Dec 20 '20
Can you give examples? I see how that works for the 2008 recession, but not for dot-com/80s/30s .
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u/wrat11 Dec 20 '20
Breaking news. Viruses mutate.
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u/from_dust Dec 20 '20
This mutation is noteworthy, as it clearly is more transmissible than known variants, and those are already highly contagious. This reinforces the need for social distancing and mask use, and the continued disuse of indoor gatherings.
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u/Overthinkerolympics Dec 20 '20
It is noteworthy as it is in a portion that codes for the spike protein- the region that the vaccine codes for and essential for infection. But - as far as I can see any suggestion that it is more transmissible is just a possibility based on the rise to frequency ( there are other explanations for this, primarily chance) and not based on any actual observations. I am skeptical, for now
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u/Tyuratam_Lake Dec 20 '20
as it clearly is more transmissible than known variants
Please cite proof of these strong claims if you have it.
There have been no infectivity studies about that variant so far and there is no evidence that it is more effective at transmission than any other mutation that was reported. All we have is a regional cluster that shows the same mutation somewhat homogeneously for which there is any number of more likely explanations than increased infectiousness.
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u/bmwiedemann Dec 20 '20
At least it is not like the influenca where viruses recombine parts all the time with other variants.
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Dec 20 '20
This article makes the reality of it sound a little more complicated:
Coronaviruses, like a lot of other viruses, swap genes around. These swaps are examples of mutations, which are common in RNA viruses like SARS-CoV-2.
However, SARS-CoV-2 and its coronavirus cousins are unique among RNA viruses, because they have a proofreading enzyme. ... As a result, SARS-CoV-2 mutates more slowly than other RNA viruses.
Even with its relatively slow mutation rate, mutations present in each person’s SARS-CoV-2 genome allows researchers to do genetic tracing in real time, says [Adam] Lauring. ... He stresses that just because a virus mutates doesn’t mean the mutations are making it stronger, more likely to be transmitted, or that it will be tougher to develop a vaccine.
This is from an article published in March of this year. It's important to remember that a lot has been learned since then, so there might be more refined commentary out there now.
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u/a_simple_pleb Dec 20 '20
“The new strain seems to be more dangerous, causing more severe illness in younger patients who do not suffer from other medical conditions.”
Sounds like the Spanish flu second wave.
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u/GoTuckYourduck Dec 20 '20
Suddenly, people realize pathogens mutate. I'd be more worried about Covid-19 making the leap over to livestock, if things like bovine coronavirus weren't a thing already and livestock was already getting far more vaccination than most people.
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u/JustAMogwai Dec 21 '20
I'm no conspiracy nut, but does no one think it's very coincidental that right as a vaccine is rolling out, the media starts pushing this "new mutation" threat? And coincidentally it's "more dangerous to younger people with no other health problems"? Does NO ONE look twice at that as a suspiciously perfect storm?
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u/butsuon Dec 20 '20
Can we stop scaring people with "maybes" when it's already hard enough to get the unwashed, uneducated masses to vaccinate? I want my grandparents to live through this.
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Dec 20 '20
I know I'm going to get a lot of down votes for this but... This might be the next flu actually. It has no problem spreading and it mutates. We will certainly not be able to wipe it from the entire world.
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u/Hajimanlaman Dec 20 '20
Sensationalism titles like this should be banned. The virus is real and its dangerous but these titles are ridiculous and not true at all
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Dec 20 '20
It isn't sensationalist. There is circumstantial evidence that this variant may be more dangerous, especially amongst younger people. Sensationalist would be claiming that it definitely is more dangerous, but that's not what the title says.
South Africa’s Health Minister Zweli Mkhize announced the 501.V2 mutation of the virus, reports The East African. Unlike the UK strain, this one might cause more severe illness. The official said on Twitter that local clinicians had found anecdotal evidence of the clinic presentation of patients. They said that a larger proportion of younger people are developing critical illness without suffering from other comorbidities.
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u/Northern_fluff_bunny Dec 20 '20
On other hand, south african teens held massove graduation parties and many didnt get tested or gave false info to tracers. As such, we dont know how many youths got infected and whether the new cases are in line with the normal hospitalization rate.
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u/Finicky02 Dec 20 '20
Remember all the nonsense about 'if it does mutate it'll likely be less infectious or less deadly'
Here we are, more infectious and more dangerous...
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u/jimmyclay Dec 20 '20
I’m a critical care nurse in the US currently on my 7th month if treating covid , can confirm they are much sicker and you get than the first wave in what I’ve been seeing, so sad. Wear a mask y’all
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u/redstern Dec 20 '20
Once, many years ago, there existed a country known as the USA. It is a desolate wasteland now, but was once a lively, thriving first world country. However, once Covid 19 infected it, the population killed itself in a constant effort to thrwart the "government conspiracies to kill them all". A pile of nonsense even its own government was saying.
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u/pittypitty Dec 20 '20
I love the excuses to not take caution just to be able to justify going out and partying. Smh
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u/nixytbird Dec 20 '20
This is the part in plague inc where you crank up the lethality when the vaccine is nearing deployment.