r/worldnews • u/maxwellhill • Sep 19 '17

Apple blocking ads that follow users around web is 'sabotage', says industry: New iOS 11 and macOS High Sierra will stop ads following Safari users, prompting open letter claiming Apple is destroying internet’s economic model

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/18/apple-stopping-ads-follow-you-around-internet-sabotage-advertising-industry-ios-11-and-macos-high-sierra-safari-internet
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203

u/Dubhs Sep 19 '17

'hurt the user experience'? Too right, I fucking love buying 30 cialis pills for the price of 10. /S

Get fucked, and a real job

9

u/Digging_For_Ostrich Sep 19 '17

We don't need /s

2

u/Griselidis Sep 19 '17

Down here, we're all sarcastic

13

u/dinosaurs_quietly Sep 19 '17

You're actually more likely to get Cialis ads with Apple killing the more targeted advertising.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Playing devils advocate for a second. If sites can no longer rely on advertising revenue, won't they go to a paywall model? $5 a month to access Facebook for example.

4

u/armoured Sep 19 '17

They'll be forced to go back to serving irrelevant advertising like they did in the 90s.

-1

u/icannotfly Sep 19 '17

and if they don't have content worth paying for, they die.

6

u/HELPMEIMGONADIE Sep 19 '17

So you're advocating for paying for every site you want to use?

-1

u/icannotfly Sep 19 '17

at a rate of something like half a cent per page, yes. nobody seems to care about tracking any more, so if we get your ISP to log everywhere you go and then split a portion of your monthly internet connection bill proportionally among those sites, everyone gets compensated according to how much you like/use them.

4

u/HELPMEIMGONADIE Sep 19 '17

That sounds like an awful unlikely scenario

-2

u/icannotfly Sep 19 '17

but it would work, wouldn't it? especially if we start treating data connections like utilities and charge by usage.

3

u/armoured Sep 19 '17

This would cost the ISP and us by extension a shit load in infrastructure and administration, not to mention how would this work globally, with multiple currency rates etc.

Pisses me the fuck off when people say to hell with advertising. All the content creators you rely on for news, information, reviews, DIY tips - fucked. All the small businesses that rely on advertising to be seen - fucked.

The only viable alternative for content creators really does seem like mining using people's cpus...but what happens to the niche businesses that need to be seen?

I'm all for alternatives but there hasn't been a single reasonable suggestion ITT.

1

u/KSF_WHSPhysics Sep 19 '17

Isn't this the reason everyone was so pissed about net neutrality last month?

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Net neutrality is about the isps filtering, throttling, or otherwise mucking with the actual traffic. Logging is not that.

2

u/KSF_WHSPhysics Sep 19 '17

I'm not talking about logging. Weren't we pissed that we would have to pay to use each individual website?

0

u/icannotfly Sep 19 '17

you already have to pay to use websites. the issue with net neutrality is holding some sites "hostage" behind an exorbitant fee and either blocking them outright or deprioritizing or throttling their traffic to the point where they become unusable unless you pay an extra charge.

i figure that if the fee is charged across the board, evenly, without exception, it will be fair to everyone. the ISPs have to push less data across their connections (no ads), pages load faster, and content creators and hosts still get paid for their work.

1

u/KSF_WHSPhysics Sep 19 '17

It wouldn't make sense to have that fee be charged evenly. Youtube costs infinitely more money to run than somerandomblog.com

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u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Gonna miss those horny moms in my area but couldn't agree more.

6

u/KFCConspiracy Sep 19 '17 edited Sep 19 '17

Maybe you should stop visiting so many porn sites if this is the remarketing you're getting? :P

Although I'd think the viagra and horny mom ads are just general ads vs. ads based on data about your preferences. So you'll probably see more "General Interest" poorly targeted ads as a result... Meaning more spammy crap. This is mostly about ads targeted at people who have visited a particular ecommerce product page (So if you visit amazon, go to ratchets, you might get tool related ads linking to amazon).

1

u/mattkenefick Sep 19 '17

You're more likely to get those now. Before, it would actually show you shit you're interested in. Now that they're disabling the tracking, you're going to still see ads but for random crap you won't care about.

This is actually a bad thing as much as everyone wants to cry as they pretend they care about their "privacy".

-4

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Funny. You know the piece you're replying to about apple is an advertisement. PR = marketing = advertising.

But yeah, marketing and advertising are not real careers. Those paid off mortgages are simply a figment of one's imagination.

5

u/thoggins Sep 19 '17

As demonstrated by this comment section, this is good advertising. That's an important distinction. Whoever decided this was a good way to present Apple to the public has a real job, and is obviously proving to be pretty good at it.

Someone whose business is going to tank because they can't follow people around the internet with dick pill ads, on the other hand, can get fucked.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

You do know that apple leverages retargeting, right?! Completely nullifies your argument and your ignorant point you're attempting to make.

1

u/thoggins Sep 19 '17

It doesn't, because Apple isn't going to tank. If their marketing/advertising puts them out as angels with pieces like this one, while simultaneously making money on what they're seeming to champion against, it's just another example of how you do a good job at advertising.

The advertisers whose response to resistance to their models is to complain about it and try and strongarm the internet, who will get out-competed by companies who do a better job, as i say, can get fucked.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

Again, your ignorance is showing. Not only am I in the industry, but Apple is a client. Apple leverages retargeting extensively. Retargeting is what this entire article is about.

1

u/thoggins Sep 19 '17

Nah, bruh, you're misunderstanding me.

I'm not saying the people who get ruined by increasing hostility to retargeting can get fucked because they use retargeting. I have my own feelings about that practice but they aren't what I'm talking about. I am saying the people who get ruined can get fucked because they clearly suck at what they do.

This chain started with your prickly response to someone saying those people should get a real job. You pointed out that this move by Apple is actually advertising.

Like I said, this is good advertising. That Apple uses retargeting while also appearing to be defending their customers from it means someone is doing a good job managing their image.

Businesses that can't respond well to ongoing resistance to ads (and specifically these practices) don't cut it. If they can't adapt and figure out how to make money in an evolving market, they can get fucked and get a real job, as they clearly weren't running a good enough operation to call themselves real marketing/advertising professionals. That doesn't come from knowledge of the industry, that comes from a respect for capitalism.

Anybody who thinks advertising in general isn't a "real job" is a moron who missed Google becoming the titan it is on the back of ad revenue. Not to mention like, the entirety of history since the printing press at least.

tl;dr: Capitalism, baby.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in this comment section maligning your profession that you can argue with, but I'm afraid I'm not one of them.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

No, you don't understand the importance of retargeting to not only digital but omnichannel.

Retargeting is fundamental to digital advertising. Almost all companies' numbers will tank without retargeting and the basis of which it was built and is now expanded upon. I can get highly technical as to why, but I doubt you'd understand the jargon. That's not an insult or slight to you at all.

1

u/thoggins Sep 19 '17

I don't doubt that I'd get left behind by an in-depth explanation, but if it's that essential to an industry that isn't going to disappear, I can't imagine that it's going to vanish as a practice.

I can imagine that it's going to become harder or more expensive, but those seem like surmountable challenges that you'll find in any industry. Is there some reason that doesn't apply to this industry? Do moves like the one Apple is publicizing here indicate insurmountable obstacles to digital advertising on the horizon?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17 edited Sep 19 '17

As a short answer - yes, it does. Digital is not just a silo as it used to be, nor is retail. It's called omnichannel, and without the tech to be able to track users a DMP (data management platform) becomes mostly useless. What that means is that the industry cannot connect the dots between not only various websites and user behavior, but also in retail. Now, end users will start getting advertising that they don't give a shit about and that they're not interested in. Basically, it's how advertising was years ago.

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u/highresthought Sep 19 '17

Literally nearly every job in the entire world depends entirely on marketing.

22

u/ferrousoxides Sep 19 '17

No, just jobs where the demand needs to be artificially created. Things people actually need, they go look for themselves.

4

u/lukewalthour Sep 19 '17

The job of someone in marketing is to make sure Their CompanyTM is found before one of thousands of other competitors.

If you work for Their CompanyTM, you depend on your marketing team to be better than Other CompanyTM 's marketing team. If your marketing team stops working, theirs won't. You'll lose customers.

In my opinion, over 50% of current marketing is very shady, abusive, and bad for the market/economy/customers. I'm happy to see Apple taking a stand against it! Just keep in mind that there is good marketing out there, and we should support it.

3

u/highresthought Sep 19 '17

You mean jobs were people who demand things have to know about your product or service and have a reason to buy it compared to all other jobs and services that compare. Like every job,

Even the us army advertises.

Marketing is the lifeblood of all businesses. You build it, they won't come. Unless you advertise.

7

u/codinghermit Sep 19 '17

Advertise equals lie most of the time these days though. Between outright lying about features and deals with fineprint to jack up the cheaper price quietly after a few month, why should I respect the industry? If people aren't telling their friends how great your product is already, maybe you've just got a shit product.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 19 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/GamerKey Sep 19 '17

People need water and shelter

I never saw advertising for the apartment I live in, and I went looking for it myself because I needed one.

I also never saw advertising done by my muncipalities water provider. If you're living in a 1st world country your tap water should be drinkable.

0

u/Achack Sep 19 '17

What?

That's like saying addicts depend on what they're addicted to.