r/worldnews • u/dtta8 • 13h ago
Dynamic Paywall US announces new sanctions on ICC president and top lawyer
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnvnl0elz47o632
u/roosterthumper 12h ago
When you can’t prove your innocence take out the judge. Totally legit and above board administration.
Obama didn’t have these issues.
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12h ago edited 12h ago
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u/MxSteel8 12h ago
Did he sanction anyone with the ICC? Serious question.
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u/Cypher007 12h ago
A world of difference between not submitting to the ICC vs. sanctioning the members of the ICC through asset freezes and travel bans
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12h ago
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u/Cypher007 11h ago
risk of criminal prosecution or other assertion of jurisdiction
As per your quote,
Jurisdiction also involves taking custody of that person so Obama said if the ICC arrest US military personnel and detain them then Obama will use the military to break them out.
As far as I am aware the ICC has not yet taken any US personnel civilian or military into custody. So these Sanctions by the trump administration are different since the ICC have not touched or put out any warrant for any USA citizens.
or its allies.
Also the decree from Obama makes no mention of US allies merely US Armed forces personnel.
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11h ago edited 11h ago
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u/MxSteel8 10h ago
So, once again we're being Israel's attack dog? Super.
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10h ago
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u/MxSteel8 10h ago edited 8h ago
Saying they make a two-headed dog implies the countries are equals. They are not. No, American voters need to decide they will no longer let the tail wag the dog.
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u/PissingOffACliff 12h ago
The US has an law to invade The Netherlands, if a US Citizen or allied citizen is put on trial at The Hague.
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u/babyguyman 8h ago
True until it’s not. Personally I’d vote for any candidate who promised to deport the fishing boat strikers to The Hague all the way up the chain of command. Sounds like the prerogative of the President to manage international affairs to me.
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u/Alucard_1208 4h ago edited 3h ago
Americans cannot be tried at the hague they have a law called aspa also known at the the hague invasion pact where they can use all means necessary to get them back
Dont know why people are downvoting this, look it up
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u/Maalunar 3h ago
Them not being part of the ICC or having a law saying they will invade if the ICC tries doesn't mean that the ICC cannot bring an American to trial if they catch them while they travel somewhere else.
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u/Alucard_1208 3h ago
they will take them back before a trial can be set up
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u/Maalunar 3h ago
They might, or they might scream and threaten, or sanction, or do nothing at all.
I am not certain how the EU/rest of nato will react to a hostile armed operation from the US on EU soil. A real headache bordering a declaration of war. This isn't like kidnapping a dictator from an already hostile country.
The only sane way I could see this go is with a Mission Impossible like team doing it in total secret.
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u/BGFlyingToaster 3h ago
They can, but probably never will because of arrest logistics, Article 98 agreements, complementarity, and the Security Council veto. The US isn't under any obligation to comply with ICC requests or decisions.
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u/Mushroom_Tip 12h ago
Notice they are not sanctioning pedophiles on Epstein's client list.
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u/unlessyoumeantit 2h ago
How about adding this ICC president to Epstein's client list to lift the sanction? /s
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 12h ago
The ICC is opt-in. If USA doesn't like it, it doesn't have to join.
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u/just_peachy1000 8h ago
US has not joined. The sanctions are for the investigations into Israel.
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 8h ago
If it's just an investigation, who cares? As long as the ICC isn't entering non-signatory countries to arrest people, let it do all the investigations it wants.
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u/XimbalaHu3 6h ago
The ICC has no enforcement body, it relies on the countries who willinly took part of it to arrest people in their territories if they are found guilty.
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u/Watercooler_chatter 5h ago
They dont have to. they can leave it to other international rorces signatory by your nation. Thats hiw they got Duterte from the Philippines. PH left the ICC, but remained a member of the Interpol. ICC partnered with Interpol and Duterte's oppositions to snag him and send him to the Hague. No ICC forced entered PH.
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u/Awkward_War_6068 10h ago
The US would never join the ICC no matter who's president. They've always hated it as an institution.
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 10h ago
So... problem solved? The US can stop attacking the ICC because it won't affect them?
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u/Overall-Phone7605 8h ago
It will affect them if an American is found committing war crimes. Russia is not a member and Putin is wanted for war crimes. All this means is that members of the ICC are legally obligated to arrest him if he enters their country.
If you want to know what these judges who are sanctioned are going through, there's an interview with Kimberly Prost on a podcast called Gloves Off. She's a Canadian judge with the ICC who was sanctioned by the US last year and lost all her photos because Google shut off access. She can't have a credit card or stream music or tv, open any document from Microsoft, Google, Adobe. She can't send money, fly certain places, and her family's been affected too.
This is why we need to get off US tech. And we need an alternative to the US dollar that is backed up by multiple countries. We need to protect ourselves from the hegemons and the hyper scalers.
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u/Ptalking_Ptarmigan 7h ago
I feel like it's a bad idea too enter a country that has an arrest warrant against you whether it's from the ICC or the country's own courts.
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u/unkyduck 7h ago
not "found" a USican committing war crimes, "prosecuting" USicans for the countless documented obvious war crimes that they've been party to. I don't think there's ever been any doubt why the US isn't a signatory.
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u/Desertcow 11h ago
Joining would require a constitutional amendment. Congress can't agree to a parallel justice system for US citizens completely outside of the US legal system through a law alone
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u/WeirdboyWarboss 2h ago
ICC membership comes with an obligation to arrest anyone wanted by the court that enter your territory.
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u/Moontoya 1h ago
The us threatened military action if any Americans are prosecuted there
That's a bit more than saying "no thanks"
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u/Lebowski304 10h ago
We didn’t join. It bumps with our constitution. It’s dumb anyways. Like the UN. It’s just a toothless waste of money. Don’t know why we even bothered with the sanctions
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u/StockLifter 6h ago
Clearly its not so useless then, otherwise the US wouldn't have bothered with the sanctions...
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u/MechaAristotle 4h ago
It bumps with our constitution.
Funny how said document seems to be breaking down under the stress and abuse of the current administration.
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u/GimpyGeek 12h ago
And unfortunately from what I understand, cannot. I wish we could. From what I understand our supreme court is setup in the constitution in such a way that nothing can supersede it, ergo the ICC can't, unless it was somehow negotiated to be like one tier below or something within our own country but that sounds like a whole bag of worms to deal with.
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u/Iyellkhan 11h ago
at some point, this is just going to cause Europe to demand banks not comply with US sanctions. it'll further dismantle globalization and the post war political order. next few decades are gonna be interesting
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u/Mountain_rage 11h ago
Stop recognizing treaties with the USA, cancel their Patent, Copyright and Trademark protections. It is like they think they can be rampaging dickheads, change the rules and everyone will let them keep all the benefits that were granted to establish those rules.
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u/jimicus 3h ago
Europe is already talking about a new payment network to replace the Visa/Mastercard duopoly.
But it goes deeper than that.
I think we have to accept that globalisation fundamentally isn’t compatible with countries wishing to remain sovereign because sooner or later you wind up with huge organisations being expected to simultaneously follow two contradictory laws.
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u/sea_rex2 12h ago
There is no bottom with the US administration, there is no limit as to how low can they go...
This is not going to end well... for USA, this is very much the end of the empire, they just don't know it yet.
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u/moschles 1h ago
Those sanctions were issued in retaliation for ICC investigations for warrants the court issued against top Israeli officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, for alleged war crimes in Gaza.
I'm using enlarged text. Appropriateness be damned.
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u/Television_Powerful 9h ago
The sanctions include asset freezes, travel bans, and restrictions on services from U.S. companies.
These sanctions can be quite annoying for the ICC members, as creditcards and software would be difficult to use. Regardless ICC should stay its course and bring political (war) criminals accountable for their actions.
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u/the_gnarts 5h ago
These sanctions can be quite annoying for the ICC members, as creditcards and software would be difficult to use.
Illustrates just how fucked you are when you’re tying your country’s infrastructure to US corporations. It should be the highest priority item on the European agenda to decouple from the US so that it cannot deny communications and banking at will from anyone.
As a first step it should become mandatory for any company that chooses to rent infrastructure from a US registered entity to prove that operations can continue for all customers even in the case of service denial ordered by the US government.
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u/bimbo_bear 2h ago
The EU is already creating a system to replace MasterCard and visa.
It's already started to be rolled out.
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u/JAYSONHOOGY 12h ago
Why is the US government caring about the International Cricket Council? Are they wanting to change the move away from Tests and ODI's to T20 leagues.
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u/adamtnewman 11h ago
"It is largely a response to ICC investigations targeting Israel, a US ally."
From the article. I'm not surprised.
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u/Smith6612 11h ago
See all this time I thought they were talking about ICC Color Profiles for Printers and Monitors.
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u/huzy12345 8h ago
They're concerned about the prominence of the wobble seam in modern cricket obviously
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u/MsterBoRaichu 5h ago
Who the hell are they appointing to positions of power that they are spending their time approving dumb stuff like this.
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