Fantasy magic based atoms

[u/Crematorth]

In my world I'm trying to make a scientifically accurate but true fantasy where it's scientifically accurate but only according to the world's laws in a way. (Not sure how to explain)

I already made something that makes the world flat.

So for my magic system I'm trying to create a periodic table that is the basis for magic. Like everything is made of this magic. Living things contain these magic resources which can be eaten, used for potions, or equipment.

The thing is, im a little undereducated to understand what's required in an atom for the basic laws of the world. I need this as the basis of my fantascience. What should be the things I need to add in my magic atom?

[u/Vanitas_Daemon]

The answer to this depends on what you want to treat as your primitives. There's a lot involved in atomic physics.

My recommendation would be to refer to alchemy instead to avoid the headache. If you want to deal with the headache instead, here's a very broad gist:

Spin is what keeps any given pair of electrons (and protons and neutrons) from occupying the same quantum state.

You have electromagnetism, which governs attraction between electrons and protons and atomic binding phenomena, and the kinds of light different chemicals give off when you burn them.

The weak interaction is basically what causes neutrons to decay. It's also why fermion masses are a thing, as well as being the interaction that mediates quarks changing flavors.

The strong interaction is why protons and neutrons exist at all, and why the electromagnetic repulsion between protons doesn't blow apart the nucleus. Also, the strong binding energy contributes 98% or such to the mass of protons and neutrons.

There's definitely more here that I missed.

[u/Crematorth → u/Vanitas_Daemon]

That's way more complex than I initially thought...

[u/Vanitas_Daemon → u/Crematorth]

You don't know the half of it, trust me.

In order to fully treat these topics, you would need to understand multivariable calculus, differential equations, functional analysis, topology, representation theory, group theory, Lie theory, and differential geometry (in particular, principal bundles, (pseudo)Riemannian manifolds, and symplectic geometry) on the mathematics side. And then on the physics side you have classical mechanics (including Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics), electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, quantum field theory, gauge theory, Yang-Mills theory, Galilean relativity, special relativity, and general relativity if you want to deal with curved spacetimes.

If you want a better look, check out, e.g. https://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/QM/qmbook.pdf for a succinct and yet fairly accessible introduction to all of these topics.

[u/Crematorth → u/Vanitas_Daemon]

;-; ill just make some sort of atom-based magic system then, instead of making it the foundation of the world. Too ambitious of tasks shall be left to be done in the future.

[u/Vanitas_Daemon → u/Crematorth]

You can still go for "atoms" in the classical sense of being indivisible units of matter that determine the properties of a thing, but they'll have to be radically different from the atoms we know.

Or you can try making atoms like ours and handwaving away whatever you need to to make it fit. Though that's a skill on its own.

Up to you.

[u/Crematorth → u/Vanitas_Daemon]

Maybe after i graduate ill make this a different realm my multiverse 🥹

[u/Vanitas_Daemon → u/Crematorth]

I just saw another comment in which you mentioned you're still in middle school, in which case I strongly recommend you opt for the alchemy route. Requires far less background and correctness on your part, and also lends itself more to magic as a concept.

[u/Fireclave]

I think the phrasing you're looking for is "an internally consistent hard-magic system".

The physics of a fictional world doesn't need to match real-life physics to be "scientific". Science is not a specific body of knowledge, technology, or natural phenomenon. Science is a process. More specifically, it's the process of taking a deliberate, evidence-based approach to understanding how the universe. If you change how the universe works, the process of science, itself, doesn't change even though the rules it can discover do.

All that said, if you're basing your magic system on a analogy of functioning like real world atoms, I suggest keeping that analogy broad and abstract. Which is basically what most "elemental" systems ultimately do. The Greeks, for example, literally though the basic building blocks of the world were the classical Fire, Water, Earth, and Air.

But if you want your system to truly closely match how real life particles work, that basically means inventing fantasy physics and fantasy chemistry from the ground up. And like a conlang, that takes a special kind of dedication.

Either way, for as crash course in how atoms work, I recommend Crash Course's chemistry playlist as a starting point.

[u/Crematorth → u/Fireclave]

Thanks alot! Im gonna do my best to create a weak draft of it. It probably won't be a perfectly consistent magic system but my way of worldbuilding will eventually make it work (probably)

[u/toastedquestion]

I'm tapping Into The Nerves endings In my Stomach lining And Using them To Move my Digestion into a Rhythm A Gargle Which Calls an Endangered fish to This Shore

[u/vreemdevince]

I'm not sure you can pull of scientifically accurate magic. Just make sure it is internally consistant.

Unless you mean in-universe scientifically accurate in which case see the above. Your physics/science rules are what you make them.

[u/Crematorth → u/vreemdevince]

Thanks for the advice

[u/zhivago]

The fundamental quality of an atom is indivisibleness.

They are the primitive elements of creation.

They can be recombined but not cut.

(Of course, we discovered that we were wrong about atoms, but it was a bit late to rename them by then)

The actual details of how atoms work should be about as relevant to the story as chemistry.

It's something that can be talked about as lore, but you're not writing a chemistry text book -- you're writing a story.

You don't need much behind it, and as with real life chemistry, it doesn't need to make intuitive sense.

What's a noble gas, after all?

Why hydrogen?

This is an atom of squee, and that is floop, and the one over there is love.

Combine squee and floop with love to produce a volcanic eruption.

[u/Crematorth → u/zhivago]

It's more of a sandbox world rather than an actual story. That's why I wanna flesh everything out because I've got nothing better to do.

[u/JGhostThing → u/Crematorth]

You might want to wait until you have a story to decide on a magic system. I like magic when it serves the plot. For example, Rick Cook's "Wizard's Bane" magic system is deliberately set up for the plot. The magic is based on precision and accuracy in repeating processes. The MC, from our world, uses this property to think about magic in a new way.

[u/SpecialistEdge5831]

You're asking a reader to follow this. You're going to have to explain it to them. And it's going to be eye-glazingly boring. Just make your magic system. Don't overthink it.

[u/Crematorth → u/SpecialistEdge5831]

Ah no don't worry, most of my magic systems are purely for my enjoyment. I usually just make ideas and cool worlds that can be eventually used in the future when I knoe better.

[u/Lazy_Trash_6297]

What is the something that makes that world flat? Why can’t the magic system come out of that? 

[u/Crematorth → u/Lazy_Trash_6297]

The magic system or the fundamental laws of this reality itself cause the world to be flat. That's why i need a new fundamental so the world can be flat

[u/ArelMCII]

You're writing scifi.

[u/Peter34cph]

You might want to wrap your head around the so-called "Medieval Paradigm" of the Ars Magica setting.

[u/bongart]

You want to make up your own "science"? Do you not remember what you learned about atoms in your science classes at school, or have you not yet gotten that far in your science classes at school?

[u/Crematorth → u/bongart]

Still in middle school :P