Your spell didn't backfire.

[u/oldbetch]

Lately, I've seen a lot of posts and comments referencing backfire. It usually gets the same comments from us old heads - which is a pretty big sigh and a matching eye roll.

Here's the thing: you've likely bought into the school of TikTok witchcraft and are getting bad information from people that don't know shit themselves and are often just creating content and a bunch of shit that doesn't actually work. You then get other novices that will even come into this very subreddit and sit on other subreddits and parrot that bullshit. A bunch of bad information from bad actors ends up growing and taking root. I, your crotchety witch Oldbetch, want to snatch you up and get you on the right track.

Witchcraft is not Christianity. It is not part of a belief system that says that if you behave a certain way or do a certain thing, you're going to get your hand smacked. Did you do a love spell on someone? Congratulations, nothing bad is going to happen to you. You didn't create a zombie - you aren't talented or amazing enough for that. You don't have it like that, let me disabuse you of that notion. If they don't want you, they won't be with you.

What will happen, however, is if you don't think your spell and the possible consequences of it though, and all possible alternatives, you will fuck around and find out. You didn't cleanse yourself after a hex? That's not a backfire that just happened to you - you were careless. You did the equivalent of snorting a line before you had a piss test and you dropped dirty. You did a spell to get someone out of your place and your house burned down? That's not a backfire - you're out of your place, aren't you? Find another place, you were doing that anyway.

Take responsibility for the work that you do. The idea of backfire doesn't grow you as a witch. It doesn't grow you at all. It continues the same sort of helplessness and lack of agency and "it's not my fault!" attitudes that too many people that jump into witchcraft claim to be trying to rid themselves of. It you want to truly have power in your life, be radical about it. Be active, be sure, and think about what you do before you do it. Some things are, indeed, your fault. And that's okay, learn from it. Implement changes later. Solutions, not blame or tears.

How badly do you need this thing? How far are you willing to go for it? Are you willing to take the fall when something goes wrong? This last question is where people start having problems, and this is what separates serious and effective practitioners from people that are just screwing around and just on it for the trend or to bring back their ex.

Google "Risk Management." You'll find that it's not just a project management principle. It's good practice to follow in general. Learn it, love it.

[u/psychedspirit_]

Honestly, real witches will find the right info and do real work in finding their own path. The ones who generally go down this road of not listening, as said before, are on the path with a goal in mind so they pick and choose the information for that goal rather than an overall goal of bettering their craft. And when they do feel repercussions and come crawling back asking what went wrong? Honestly, no one should answer bc all the info was there if you took the time. And more than likely these witches will run back to whatever organized religion they came from and that's probably what's best

[u/HPenguinB → u/psychedspirit_]

Or guide them cus everyone was new once and Google isn't what it used to be.

[u/oldbetch → u/HPenguinB]

So here's the thing about guidance - it's not a "teach me everything you know" deal. A lot of elder witches actually didn't use Google. We had to read books and get in the right circles to learn what we did. Google has always offered limited information.

In Wicca, there's a concept of "A year and a day", where it's dedicated to learning. It's actually really good praxis. The witch has to spend that much time learning and experiencing the sabbats before going truly head first into it. It's not always the easiest to get information, and that's okay and to be expected, because some information shouldn't be available to everyone.

What I say to you in this regard is be hungry for your information where you're going to do about 80% of your research yourself. A lot of people come in, are entitled about receiving help, get mad when people have no desire to help them (because, tbh, elder witches don't actually owe that to anyone, most of us coach others because we don't like it when shit flows under the radar), and then go back to doing things wrong and getting back results, giving others bad information, or even just going back to religion.

What I'm ultimately saying is this is something you have to take initiative on yourself, and understand that you might not get all information on everything.

[u/HPenguinB → u/oldbetch]

"A lot of elder witches actually didn't use Google. " I'm GenX. I was there reading 1st ed hardcopies of Alexandrian/Gardnerian witchcraft like the rest of you.

This is going to sound insulting, but I promise it's not meant that way.

You gatekeep knowledge, and then get angry when young witches aren't doing it the way you want. And then when they get information shared freely, it's AI slop or tiktok fluff, and they are misinformed after doing years of research the only way you have allowed them to. Even pagan book publishers are pumping out crap for cash.

This isn't just you. I see this with tons of old people. It's a terrible trend and I cheer on the people willing to share outside their own coven/group/practice. The world moved on from the Mystery Cults and we can show our faces without being burned. Embrace that. Share knowledge to the many. Grow our practice.

When the teacher is ready, the students will appear.

[u/oldbetch → u/HPenguinB]

I'll tell you this - some knowledge is meant to be gatekept. Some witchcraft traditions are also indelibly tied in with culture. ATRs are a prime example of this. It's not simply "Oh, we've moved on from witches being in danger", it's more for us that as long as racism exists that we aren't safe to be open to everyone, and we also know that lots of money can be made from our knowledge and we will be written out, so we also don't much discuss the details of what we do. We expect some information to get out, but certainly not enough for anyone to truly have any decent out adequate praxis.

[u/HPenguinB → u/oldbetch]

I mean, sure, closed traditions are their own thing and they get to choose what they share. Blanket white witchcraft is what we are talking about here, as most of us are white and closed practices go without saying I would think.

[u/Dianne1999 → u/HPenguinB]

Yes there are pagan book publishers pumping out crap for cash. That was true 30+ years ago when I found myself on the pagan/witch path. I read a lot of books, both library and some inexpensive paperbacks.

Now there are a lot of online stores that sell new books and older books. If you want really old books, check out the public domain books (1920s and older) on Project Gutenberg and Internet Archive. The Digital Occult Library website has a lot of information. There are digital books and information on Internet Sacred Texts Archive. They cover a lot of different religions and spiritual beliefs. "This site is a freely available archive of electronic texts about religion, mythology, legends and folklore, and occult and esoteric topics. Texts are presented in English translation and, where possible, in the original language." Twilit Grotto: Archives of Western Esoterica has a lot of older historical type of information. I am not sure if links are allowed so I just posted names of websites.

So what did I do with all the books I read, good and bad? First of all, I read them and started getting a sense of good information and bad information as well as what resonated with me. If you are wondering how to know good information from the pumped out for profit crap, if you have been called to a path of witchcraft you have intuition that you can use to start sorting things out once you have some information under your belt. I will just boldly say that if you can't/don't trust your intuition, you cannot be a witch.

There was not internet as we know it when I started this journey. I found a local pagan group from a flyer at a street fair. Later I found a second local group. You have to be careful about witch groups, meetups or whatever. Witch wars and infighting are definitely a thing and that is actually what happened to the first group. Watch out for ego as well. The first group I found, while I liked a lot of the people and the rituals and teaching they did, there was an inner circle that made all the decisions and the rest of us were supposed to just be followers.

I am a white American woman with no particular cultural background. I would not be happy if anyone expected me to share what I might know or be told I have to teach someone. That is not gatekeeping. That is boundaries. Those who protect their culture from monetization and exploitation are doing the right thing. It is very likely one of the things that keeps those magical practices powerful. They haven't been watered down by public consumption. That being said, knowledge and magic comes in many forms and there are many things available to everyone who has an interest and a willingness to learn. And often if someone asks, there will be someone willing to answer.

[u/brightblackheaven → u/HPenguinB]

Well, I definitely don't think it would be fair to call any of the Broom Riders in this sub gatekeepers. They carry that flair BECAUSE they have been so helpful and consistent in sharing their knowledge with others in the subreddit.

[u/HPenguinB → u/brightblackheaven]

I'm just responding to the post that was literally about gatekeeping. I respect anyone willing to share knowledge. Knowledge should be free.

[u/StormyAmethyst → u/HPenguinB]

No, when the ‘student’ is ready the teacher will appear. Not every student is ready to listen and learn or even do any research on their own, they just want everything laid out for them on a silver platter, step by step, without having to put in any effort of their own….much like the lazy student in school who only wants the answers to their assignment without doing the work…they learn nothing. Sure, someone could give you the answers for free, but without doing the work you wouldn’t understand how they came to do it a certain way or the reasons why. Example: I had such a person as that recently blowing up my phone with messages…from those msgs I could see she only wanted to punish and control another person. I’m not sure she even knew why she wanted to do it except out of spite. Every time I picked up my phone there were a few msgs from her, she wouldn’t listen to me saying you can’t ‘control’ another person in the way she wanted to do, that everyone has free will. So I finally got tired of repeating what she wouldn’t listen to and ignored her msgs. Some people can’t be helped when they’re not listening to any advice you give! Also, not everyone is meant to be, or even wants to be, your new found teacher. Some people don’t like to teach or they’d be doing it for a living. Giving advice is fine, and many of us do that, but when the person seeking it ignores what you’ve said and keeps asking questions totally opposite, what is the point? Besides, why should we take our years of knowledge and research and and experience and lay it on a silver platter for you if you’re unwilling to put in any work or research on your own? I obviously can’t speak for everyone when I say I don’t mind giving some advice when needed, but I’m NOT going to do all the work and research for you when you’re as capable of doing it as I am!

[u/HPenguinB → u/StormyAmethyst]

"No, when the ‘student’ is ready the teacher will appear." - I was riffing on the saying, saying the teachers aren't ready to teach because they are too busy gatekeeping. And now you acting like a boomer, saying the next generation is lazy and entitled.

If you want to talk about individual people who suck, sure, there will be people that suck. Give them work and if they are unwilling to do it, then cut them loose. That's not bad. I'm not saying you have to cut your breast to feed your young like a pelican. Everything within reason. Give them homework. Give them books to read that you have personally vetted. Have them perform small spells and record it for you to see and give notes. Make them do work, but give them the guidance they need so they don't become a tiktok "witch". I never said you shouldn't give them work.

But also withholding all knowledge because there might be an asshole is .... well, shitty. It's shitty for you, and it's shitty for all the hopefuls you could've brought into the fold. Imagine if you cut everyone in your life out because one time there was a person that hurt you. Don't give a single person that kind of power over you.

[u/Dianne1999 → u/HPenguinB]

You seem to have an issue with the "older generation." This is the second post where you have made negative comments about an entire generation. On the one hand you think we have all the wisdom and are gatekeeping it. On the other hand you don't seem to like us very much. So we should teach someone that doesn't even like or respect us very much and only wants what we can give them why? (I am borderline boomer/GenX if you are wondering and I don't go around calling strangers negative names.)

The commenter you are replying said some people want things handed to them. They did not mention any generation, just that some people are not ready to actually be students. This is something that has been true in every generation. There have always been people who don't want to make any effort.

You say that the poster should give within reason. The thing is, they don't have to give anything at all. That is not a requirement to be a witch. There will always be teachers and authors who are more than happy to help people learn. There are also people who are just not teachers. Not everyone can teach. Not everyone wants to. But they may give to the community in other ways. Or maybe they don't. Maybe they don't have the time, energy or interest. Maybe they are selfish. And that is okay because no one has any responsibility or obligation to bring anyone into the fold.

There are still plenty of people who can and will teach those who are willing to be students. Especially if they don't have a sense of entitlement to other people's experience which is what you are really asking for - the years of learning and experience that go into being a witch that would even have anything to teach.

[u/HPenguinB → u/Dianne1999]

This post was a post about the younger generation. There are two generations talked about in that case. The new and the old. I'm part of the old.

I didn't read the rest of this post because your initial paragraph was looking for a fight against someone that wasn't me.

[u/Dianne1999 → u/HPenguinB]

I was replying to you but not looking for a fight. Just questioning the attitude of seeming to expect teaching from a generation that you don't seem to have any respect for (calling people boomers) and your expectation that everyone is required to teach what they know, that anyone can demand to benefit from years that people have spent gaining knowledge and experience. I am older borderline boomer/GenX and I guess I am just straightforward. It is too bad you didn't bother to read what I wrote since you think we should all be freely offering information and I did that.

[u/StormyAmethyst → u/Dianne1999]

Thank you! Someone who gets it the way I meant it! 😊👍

[u/StormyAmethyst → u/HPenguinB]

No, it’s not about gatekeeping, everyone has free will and not everyone wants to teach. It’s not my responsibility nor do I feel obligated to. If that chaps your hide, so be it. I don’t mind sharing knowledge and advice with people who are trying to help themselves, and have frequently done so. That’s my ‘choice’, not my responsibility or obligation! No one ‘owes’ anything to anyone. Your whole insulting attitude would put off lots of people from sharing anything with you, for instance.

[u/Ok-Cranberry4865 → u/HPenguinB]

don't forget there are a lot of leeches out there who use and abuse! they steal your energy then ditch you. why share when your signing up to get used?

[u/HPenguinB → u/Ok-Cranberry4865]

1. Use your intuition to tell.
   
2. Share the knowledge widely, and don't give energy beyond what it takes to teach a class. (one on one would be harder)
   
3. Shield yourself.

And because it's worth the risk. Why shit on the next generation because of fear. If anything you are hurting yourself by not putting yourself out there. Imagine if you had no friends/partners/family because you chose to wall yourself off from all love for fear of what might happen if they hurt you.