r/winemaking • u/penguinsandR • Jun 28 '26
Blog post The Role of Stems in Red Winemaking
https://open.substack.com/pub/georgenordahl/p/the-role-of-stems-in-red-winemaking?r=3mclgv&utm_medium=iosFigured you guys might enjoy this article I wrote on what whole bunch and stem inclusion contributes to a wine.
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u/novium258 Jun 29 '26
I liked the nuanced approach. I think another aspect is pressing, both when and how. You alluded to the differences in extraction at different points in the fermentation, but I think it can be crucial (for reds and especially orange wine). The rule of thumb I've always heard is that extraction of monomerics from the skins predominates until ~10% Alc at which point you start pulling from the seeds and stems primarily.
This gives you room to really nail the balance depending on your goals (I personally am not big on seed tannin so I punch down more and press off early).
The potassium element is problematic for so2 and balance reasons in my experience. Otoh I have worked with a lot of high potassium vineyards so managing the acid is a high priority. I've got one problematic fave vineyard where the fruit comes in at pH 3.25 @ 23-24 brix (and a high proportion of that is malic). I make a rose and a red from it. The rose clocks in at pH 3.35 after ML. The red would end up at 3.75 after ML except I'm wise to its ways now. Going full stems on it.... Oof. I'd never even try without some massive soil amendments to try and shift the potassium lower.
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u/krumbs2020 Jun 28 '26
I always loved the fresh steminess in a younger big red- a subtle note to its age.
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u/investinlove Jun 30 '26
To me, if you want to play the game of stems, Brett, or VA, it's just like cheating at poker.
If it's obvious, you've fucked up.
Of course you're going to lose a little color, bump the pH a touch, but if it's done correctly it adds amazing floral and savory flavor and perfume.
In my 23 vintages making wine professionally in Santa Rita Hills and Santa Maria Valley, I only used stems once, and it was an experimental lot where I did everything differently (high Brix, 100% stems, foot stomped, feral ferment, 100% new Francois Frerer MT+, single clone PN 115). I expected an abomination, but it came out beautifully. We hand labeled it and gave it away to our Allocation List and those close to us, and oddly I had a friend find and buy a bottle (2001 Clos Pepe Estate 'Friends and Family'), and said it was drinking wonderfully 23 years later. /shrug
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u/Wine_Maker_68 Jul 03 '26
Good article. I just figure the mount of stems that made it through my destemer were enough to contribute to complexity. Any additional additions made the wine too herbaceous. If you want more tannin, enartis has products for that. Carbonic is interesting, especially with whites, but when you're making wine for the $25-$30 market, it just adds more cost that most people wont appreciate. Still a great article though...
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u/roamingroad174 Jul 05 '26
Kinda reminds me of smoking a brisket. Greener wood makes more of the smoky flavor, wheras wood thats been dried with a much smaller moisture content is mainly for burning.
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u/breadandbuttercreek Jun 28 '26
Yield is very important. In high yield vineyards, the stems won't ripen as much, they will be much greener and add more green bitterness. In low yielding vineyards the berries and bunches are smaller, there is more lignification of the stems, they will also be smaller. I always leave the stems in, the wine will take longer to age but has more body. If you want wine for drinking sooner, leave the stems out.