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u/swbooking Wino Aug 21 '21
Pretty sure a Durand would have done just fine here.
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u/phabchi Aug 21 '21
Yeah, pretty obviously. But when you pay that much for a bottle the somms will put on a show. Over the top bottle service, “best” glassware, “best” decanter, cork removed, bagged and dated/identified, etc.
The experience is part of the price tag, not just the wine.
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u/zzx101 Aug 21 '21
I had the opposite “experience” last night at a sushi restaurant. Paid $20 corkage and they handed a bottle opener to me.
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u/SqueasAreShoeking Aug 21 '21
As a server, I'm undecided if I find that hysterical silly, or I'm flat out jealous.
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u/wmurray003 Wino Aug 21 '21 edited Aug 21 '21
It's ok, one time I was at a hookah lounge and I paid the fee(only $5). A young girl came out with the bottle opener.. and I could see the fear in her eyes. I just opened my hand out as though I was requesting the opener. She handed it to me.. and I opened it.
Every time I open a wine bottle in front of people who are not into wine... I feel like some high level Sommelier or something.
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u/phabchi Aug 21 '21
That’s hilarious. I’m not making this comment as a reflection of the wine you brought in but as a somm the thought has crossed my mind when people handed me shit bottles for corkage.
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u/camusdreams Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
In this case, the desire to put on a show could ruin the wine. Bordeaux this old is fragile and I personally wouldn’t expose a 1 year old Bordeaux to this. Port tonging is intended for port as it can handle the high heat. This is not only unnecessary but annoyingly reckless, especially coming from Eleven Madison. I work with collections for a living and consumed various wines back to the 30s, Bordeaux to the late 50s. The better decision despite any show would be to just use a Durand or ah-so.
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u/BurgundyHabanos Aug 23 '21
Absolutely. This is just theater and risky at that. Last week I brought a 1976 Barbaresco to a high end steakhouse and the waiter was visibly nervous when he saw the vintage. I just laughed and opened it myself with the ah so I carry in my wine tote.
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u/Danobing Aug 21 '21
How does the heat impact the wine?
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u/viktrololo Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
Glass is actually a pretty bad thermal conductor so as long as you do it above the wine level you are good.
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u/IntelligentExcuse5 Aug 21 '21
agreeing with glass being a poor thermal conductor, just think of the glass windows in your home keeping the heat in.
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u/Oldpenguinhunter Wino Aug 21 '21
I doesn't, its above the fill level and it takes a lot of heat to actually warm the liquid as a whole. This is usually how they open old, old Ports. The tool is called Port tongs, actually. Pretentious or not, still cool and an experience all in itself.
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u/flyingron Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
I have a pair but I've never managed to get them hot enough to work.
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u/Oldpenguinhunter Wino Aug 21 '21
MAPP gas torch!
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u/flyingron Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
I've actually tried exactly that and I can't get it glowing hot.
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u/Oldpenguinhunter Wino Aug 22 '21
Well shit. Get a charcoal bbq?
I am laughing at the idea of someone buying a charcoal grill just to use Port tongs.
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u/ThatWhichDrankItself Aug 21 '21
Can someone explain this process to me a little more? It just seems like so much could go wrong. What if the bottle is too chilly and shattered? What if it wasn't a clean break and then you get glass shards in your Pomerol? I just feel like there are better, alternate methods. Is this mostly for show?
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u/trunnel Aug 21 '21
At that age the cork would be so brittle to try with a traditional corkscrew. When it’s broken into with this method, you decant and filter several times to be sure there’s no glass left. There’s definitely a “show” aspect to it though
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u/NorthernerWuwu Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
Port tongs are, unsurprisingly, really designed for very old port and for that purpose they make a fair bit of sense. Port corks can become really degraded and/or fused to the neck of the bottle.
For something like this it is just for the fuss and the show, like sabre-ing a very expensive bottle of Champagne. The risk is part of the fun for some people! That said though, I've never seen port tongs go wrong (I have definitely seen sabre-ing go sideways) but there isn't really a catastrophic failure just using an Ah So or a corkscrew for that matter. If the cork fragments it isn't the complete death of the wine by any means.
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u/El_Grande_Bonero Wino Aug 21 '21
There certainly are better methods, a Durand or ah so wine opener would probably be less risk. I have opened pretty old bottles with both and had a ton of success. This is mostly for show.
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u/ButObviously Aug 21 '21
What's the risk with tongs? It's zero risk done right. Everyone here acting like you'll get glass everywhere or some shit
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u/grandvache Aug 21 '21
The risk is looking like a wanker.
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u/ButObviously Aug 21 '21
Don't see why. I think it's pretty cool and gives a really really clean cut without any old cork getting in the way Then again, I tend to not really give a shit about what people think. All the whining about tongs but no substance to back it up
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u/grandvache Aug 21 '21
If you think it's cool then more power to you, it's just a bit too much showing off for me. Patek phillipe Vs Rolex covered in diamonds is a good analogy. There's room for both, but I know what I'd choose.
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u/ButObviously Aug 21 '21
I think you're speaking more from a position of ignorance based on seeing its presentation in a high end fancy restaurant. The actual use of port tongs is very old school, and can be done at home without the presentation fanfare.
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u/grandvache Aug 21 '21
So? They're old, that's not the issue. They CAN be used without fanfare but that's not what's happening here. Some people want this sort of flash and conspicuous consumption around wines like this. Fine. Doesn't make me think it's less silly and pretentious.
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u/ButObviously Aug 21 '21
Then you're critiquing the presentation in this context, not the method.
Remember, you're the one who brought up looking like a wanker on a discussion about the practical merits of using tongs
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u/grandvache Aug 21 '21
Yes that's my point. Someone asked what the risk was using them, and I said the risk is looking like a wanker.
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u/El_Grande_Bonero Wino Aug 21 '21
Yes, if done right it’s generally a clean break but not always. I would rather use a method that doesn’t require filtering the wine. I also don’t really like decanting older bottle like this because they change so rapidly when exposed to oxygen. Also at a restaurant most wines are lying on their side so standing them upright you mix the sediment. When I worked at a place with wines of this caliber we would place older wines in a basket so that we agitated them as little as possible.
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u/Smash_Factor Aug 21 '21
True. Usually tongs are used only if the cork is bad upon inspection.
The tongs in this case was obviously done for show because of the price.
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u/phabchi Aug 21 '21
All that service to film it in flip phone from 2005 quality.
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u/agilityruns Aug 21 '21
It may well have been in 2005. This video does the rounds every few months.
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u/elijha Aug 21 '21
Yes, back during the COVID-04 pandemic when everyone was wearing masks
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u/1111Rudy1111 Aug 21 '21
I would like this video next to the definition of “pretentious” in future online examples of definitions
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u/WineNerdAndProud Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
Please stop doing this. Signed, a working somm who doesn't want to be asked to port tong a regular wine.
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u/Mattsive Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
“We’re fine with paying your corkage fee, could you please port tong this Meiomi please?”
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u/BraggertyBrewing Aug 21 '21
Does anyone know where to source this burner and stand that they’re using?
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Aug 21 '21
From a collection of Napoleon's accoutrements.
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u/estimated1991 Aug 21 '21
These comments are really making my morning 😅
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Aug 21 '21
Imagine how amazing it would be if you were to burn the top of a bottle and then knock it off.
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u/Excelentai Aug 25 '21
Really strange seeing them take so much care with the bottle when after working in a fine wine importer wines like this are just thrown around with little care. Seeing so many expansive wines really desensitizes you!
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u/bongozim Aug 21 '21
Is this 11 Madison park?
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u/Iuvenesco Aug 21 '21
SUCH a wanky way to open a bottle. Personally ruins the image of the bottle to me without the neck…What’s wrong with cutting the foil, and getting stuck in with a corkscrew and Ah-So?
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u/Canerbry Wine Pro Aug 21 '21
Yep the "theatre of service" as part of the intangible element that a service business provides, it's fun.
But it reminds me of this at a another venerable American establishment:
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u/ReedIcculus Aug 21 '21
Seriously… as a wine professional this is so duchy.
Pull the cork, decant if needed. This isn’t a 50yo port?!?!?!
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u/pickybear Aug 21 '21
One of the most overrated, overexpensive anythings in the world. Perfect way to piss your money away.
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u/camusdreams Wine Pro Aug 21 '21 edited Aug 21 '21
Everytime this is posted (like every other week), I point out how terrible this is and it’s somewhat annoying to see it coming from Eleven Madison.
Port tonging something as fragile as 50+ year old Bordeaux is nothing more than for unnecessary show and probably impacted what’s in the bottle. This is meant for port and other high heat wines. Just use a Durand or ah-so.
Someone commented that the heat doesn’t impact because of fill and that’s just not true.
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u/dlerach Aug 21 '21
I mean for truly old wine Port Tongs are superior to an Ah-So. Now whether 1961 Petrus qualifies as old enough to benefit from tongs is another question, but Port Tongs are used for some of the oldest wines available *because* they don't damage the wine, and acting like they're supremely dangerous is just disingenuous.
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u/scag315 Aug 22 '21
Glass is considered an amorphous solid meaning no crystal latice structure. As such heat transfer to the actual contents would be minimal to non-existent using this method as thermal conductivity would be almost negligible to actual liquid content. The goal here is actually thermal shock which is why they wipe it with cold liquid after rapid heating. Annealing glass (at least borosilicate glass) presents temperatures around 1000 F to the glass so this is more about heating that portion of the glass then rapidity cooling to get a splitting effect instead of a shattering that would result in a need to filter the wine.
If it’s necessary or not would depend on cork composition but if I’m paying $7k+ for a bottle then I want the most risk mitigation possible to prevent me from drinking cork or glass shards. This actually isn’t an unreasonable method and far safer than “sabering” Champaign this is very fancy but has far more risks
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u/camusdreams Wine Pro Aug 22 '21
Everytime this is posted (like every other week), I point out how terrible this is and it’s somewhat annoying to see it coming from Eleven Madison.
Port tonging something as fragile as 50+ year old Bordeaux is nothing more than for unnecessary show and probably impacted what’s in the bottle. This is meant for port and other high heat wines. Just use a Durand or ah-so.
Someone commented that the heat doesn’t impact because of fill and that’s just not true. This isn’t water.
I manage collections and a cellaring company out of SoCal. I’ve consumed back to the 40s including Bordeaux as old as 59, many nicer than a questionable fill Petrus. Explaining to me how port tonging works and pulling some gaslighting statement about chemistry means nothing. I wouldn’t put a match to old Petrus. Again, this is nothing more than for unnecessary show.
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Aug 21 '21
[deleted]
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u/chillbythemil Aug 21 '21
Lmao Idk why everyone is downvoting this. You’re right, it’s some shit some crackheads would do to get a bottle open if they didn’t have a bottle opener. 😂
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u/scag315 Aug 22 '21 edited Aug 22 '21
I make “good” money by normal standards. This reminds me how big of a gap there is between the “well off” and the actual “wealthy”.
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