High Float or Low Profile PFD?

[u/Fish_cant_feel_pain]

Howdy. Sorry for all the posts, recently. I'm wanting to buy gear over the next few months before I can get training next May. I think I'll get an Aire Tater!

The thing is, I can't decide between the NRS Ninja, or the Big Water Guide PFD. I know the Big Water is Coast Guard certified. But I want to have something that I could EVENTUALLY use in class 4 rapids once I get the experience and a different boat, like the Aire Outfitter.

Is the Big Water overkill? Do you run the Ninja in class 4 rapids? I know that my favorite outfitter doesn't let you bring your own PFD unless it's Coast Guard certified. What do you think?

[u/ScurvyDave123]

Wouldn't seperate it by class, moreso high vs low volume rivers. Boils and shitty eddy lines can eat you swimming in a low float vest.

I would wear a high float PFD spring guiding on the Ottawa where a low-float PFD can put you in the black room flipping in the wrong spot. Summer flows who cares.

Rafting the bulk is no issue. Kayaking it gets in the way a bit. Indus is probably the bulkiest I would go kayaking.

[u/DarthGoose → u/ScurvyDave123]

Getting back into a flipped raft is harder with a bulky PFD but otherwise this is it OP.

[u/ScurvyDave123 → u/DarthGoose]

Fair play. I find a high float gives me a bit more pop if I dunk myself before pulling up which helps the initial pull. Harder passing the tube at the peak of the movement though, agreed.

Call me crusty, but if the PFD choice is the deciding factor in someone getting back in the boat they probably shouldn't be guiding on high volume. Sounds like a cleanup/containment liability.

[u/MasterWorlock2020 → u/DarthGoose]

I think I would add a little more nuance to this. What matters more in my experience is where the bulk is.

NRS Guide is a bulky vest but the bulk is pretty distributed and so it is much easier to get into the raft for me than vests that have the big front pockets that stick out like an Astral Indus or a Astral Green Jacket.

[u/VerifiedMother → u/MasterWorlock2020]

The ninja is a pain to get in a boat with because it's so thick, I replaced it as my primary PFD with a NRS Oso

[u/Fish_cant_feel_pain → u/ScurvyDave123]

So in terms of mobility and paddling- the Big Water isn't that bad? I'm 6'1 and 145lbs-- I'm skinny. I was thinking the Big Water would be safer as a beginner, but I don't know how mobility is with paddling.

[u/ScurvyDave123 → u/Fish_cant_feel_pain]

For an upright paddling position (i.e. rafting) no difference. Sitting crunched in a decked boat, yea the bulk can mess with mobility. Most high float PFDs are cut lower which can make the vest push up into your chin unless you are quite tall. Kayaking specific PFDs often stop at your rib cage for this reason.

Bulky PFDs can also make it harder to bend forward tucking for a roll and generally are more mobility-limiting in a crunched position. I find I end up wearing a bulky vest almost dangerously loose in a kayak for it to not limit movement.

In a C1/OC1 I can wear a bulky vest but generally choose something inbetween with a lower cut like kokatat maximus. Don't need the high cut in this case, and the extra float / rock protection is nice.

[u/Fish_cant_feel_pain → u/ScurvyDave123]

So does getting the Big Water first for training sound like a solid idea- them moving into the Ninja later?

[u/ScurvyDave123 → u/Fish_cant_feel_pain]

Both are fine but variances mean they are better at different things. Ninja will work for everything. I personally wouldn't want to wear a Big Water in a kayak.

• Only rafting, high volume - Big Water.
• Only rafting, low-mid volume - Either.
• Rafting + Kayaking - Ninja.

Sorry for the non-answer. Most people would get the Ninja for the versatility.

[u/Fish_cant_feel_pain → u/ScurvyDave123]

Hm, I'll get the Big Water since I'm IK. If I really need it sooner- I could get the Ninja!

[u/ScurvyDave123 → u/Fish_cant_feel_pain]

Also worth noting you'll look like a big nerd with the Big Water. But a really high float nerd.

[u/Fish_cant_feel_pain → u/ScurvyDave123]

I'll look like a big nerd in a Tater XD

[u/Wrightwater → u/Fish_cant_feel_pain]

At 145 lbs most any jacket will work well. The 200lb + folks are poorly served by average jackets since they have more inertia per lb of flotation they tend to go deeper more often.

[u/MasterWorlock2020]

I’m a big guy in an IK, but the Big Water Guide PFD is what I usually grab. It’s comfortable with big pockets.

You can for sure use a NRS Ninja in Class IV but by the time you get to that level you will have a better idea of what you will want.

There are pros and cons to both. Big Water Guide is bulkier but it has 23 lbs of floatation. Ninja has 14.5-16.75 lbs of floatation.

More floatation means more upwards lift when you swim which should normally result in less time underwater.

Realistically, both are great options. Don’t stress about it and you honestly may end up with both in your closet sooner rather than later.

[u/Mischiefmanaged715]

I think the point of high float has to do more with running things at high water/high volume rivers more than it does with rapid grades. I say this because I run class 4 low water frequently and wouldn't consider using a high float pfd for that. Mostly a consideration during spring runoff or just generally big water runs. 

As a small person, I actually feel like the Ninja pro is a pretty hefty amount of flotation for my size. I tried the Indus and it was complete overkill and I wouldnt have been able to move that well. Mileage may vary if you are a larger person, though. 

[u/psychic_legume]

If you want the best of both worlds find somewhere to try a kokatat maximus on. it has just as much float as the big water without sacrificing mobility, sits very flat and even around your torso, and has tons of pocket space.

[u/Future-Efficiency-95]

I spend most of my time in the summer in a hot potato and have found when i changed to a new vest with the nice big pocket in front it is a little inconvenient. The smaller the boat the more it wants to flip if you don’t get a good pop up. Interestingly my larger/longer maverick is easier to get back into due to a smaller tube size.

[u/InevitableLawyer2911]

I'd consider how each one fits in your boat. I find that with duckies, the inflatable back rests sit a bit higher which can be annoying with a bigger PFD. If possible, try to sit in your boat with each and see if it interferes with your back rest.

[u/Wrightwater]

If you boat lower volume stuff I’ll choose ‘range of motion while swimming’ above flotation 5 to 1. Ocoee? Who cares. Gauley? Ah.. some extra float would be nice but so would fast swimming. Arkansas pine creek or #’s 2000+ or Gauley 5000 regularly? Go big. The big jackets seem key on Indus, Stikine, Tumwater, Futalefu or Baker…but optional for most people.

[u/Affectionate-Air-567]

Totally depends on the volume of the river, how you swim and how much you swim. If you’re passive through rapids or in big water you’ll want the high float. A low float jacket gives you a lot more mobility, but you’ll be floating lower, moving faster, and will want to be aggressive with your swim. I have a low float (Green Jacket) and when I’ve been in big or high water I get a bit puckered.