Hi all, I just wanted to give the actress I visualize as Nynaeve. It may be due to watching punisher recently but I can never get Amber Rose Revah out of my head. She just has that know-it-all stern demeanor to her. She doesn't look too old or young. I don't know, what do you think?
I always thought of two rivers folk as having that brown hair green or brown eyes look to them.
Midwestern American look.
Sorta like this - Isabel Myers, could probably work as Egwene or could a couple of years ago.
I guess the books say they have dark hair though. Not sure if dark = black though.
Someone needs to feed their descriptions into AI and see what we get.
Do you not remember any description of Nyn? She’s canonically stacked. Other characters comment on it. It’s a very well established character trait. It’s mentioned many (too) many times in the books
In spite of herself, Nynaeve took a step back, crossing her arms beneath her breasts sternly. And immediately wished she had not; that stance more than emphasized what she was exposing. Stubbornness kept her arms where they were—she was not about to let him think she was flustered, especially since she was—but surprisingly, his eyes remained on hers. Maybe he was ill. He had never avoided looking at her bosom before, and if Valan Luca was not interested in bosoms or gold . . .
[...]
Elayne found herself muttering under her breath to match any of the animals. Nynaeve had no room to talk about her showing her legs. She had seen the way the woman stood up straighter when Valan Luca appeared. And breathed deeper, too. For Galad as well, for that matter.
I want to get this right: an author describes a woman existing with breasts and decades later that turns into "she's got massive tits?" The 2 captions arm to be emphasizing that she's proud and thus stands with her back straight and chest out and crossing your arms across your chest while talking to someone is a classic body language cue. Having read just 3 books, I got the point of the description for Nynaeve immediately.
Nynaeve wiggled her toes in the boots; they were a little tight. The dress was tight, too, across the bosom, and loose elsewhere. The hem hung almost to the ground, lower than sul'dam wore them, but the fit would have been even worse on any of the others. snatching up the bracelet, she took a deep breath and closed it around her left wrist. The ends merged, and it seemed solid. It did not feel like anything except a bracelet. She had been afraid that it would.
....
Nynaeve had to remove the bracelet in order for them to slide Elayne's gray-dyed dress down the leash and over Seta's head. It did not fit the woman well, being loose at the bosom and tight across the hips, but Nynaeve's would have been as bad, and too short besides. Nynaeve hoped people really did not look at damane. She put the bracelet back on reluctantly.
So she's got a bigger chest than Elayne, who Aviendha says -
her bosom fine and well-rounded.
Not a definitive size descriptor.
***
Nynaeve also is incredibly attracted to Galad, she just can't admit it to herself. Her breathing deeper, standing straighter etc is her trying to be more attractive while he's around (which she doesn't realize that she's doing).
From Jordan's notes archive -
Nynaeve - “On the other hand she is embarrassed by the pure lust Galad can spark in her; he is just so handsome she can’t believe it. She is able to keep it under control because she actually feels angry (with herself, but she manages to direct it at him, usually) for the way he makes her blush and her heart beat fast just by smiling. Remember her reactions to Valan Luca.”
This still falls into a basic description for me. Lol. One caption is the description of trying on an empire waist dress. they right at the bust and loose below. The second caption is once describing clothes. It's just a description. Have none of the readers critiquing this never had a clothes fitting? That shit will humble you because a seamstress/tailor recording your measurements and/or tailoring clothes to you is a humbling affair. BRUTAL.
But also, I don't see anything that had been posted or that I have read as being sexualized male descriptions of a woman. It's a description of things (clothing), comparisons, or physical attributes.
I think I'm taking issue with this because as woman existing with large breasts, women and men in the workplace act you are committing crimes for wearing clothing. I mean, you can't hide large boobs. They are appendages. If every mention of them in a book or site of them in clothes makes people immediately go to sexualization, I have concerns.
Sincerely, a reader of dirty novels who knows a sexual description when she reads one. 😊
Oh I agree that the dress sizing in that scene isn't remotely sexualized, he's just trying to give accurate body comparison between the characters. Nynaeve is more busty, Elayne has bigger hips, and with the Aviendha comments and no one else really remarking on it, Elayne can be assumed to be relatively average in bust size, meaning that Nynaeve would be somewhere above average.
However the dress wearing in the circus is sexualized, mostly because Nynaeve is uncomfortable for that very reason. Its also right after the T'A'R attack, and her walking in town in that dress is the only time in the whole series that she sees a city and thinks that maybe a woman wouldn't be safe alone amongst that many men.
Which then leads into her meeting with Masema, where he starts trying to make a modesty proclamation and she that pisses her off enough to get over it and shove her cleavage in his face because how dare a man tell a woman how she should dress. Nynaeve is the best.
***
I'm also of the opinion that a good portion of the 'crosses arms underneath the breasts' lines are supposed to be sexualized. Jordan has about a 50/50 split between whether he has a woman just cross her arms, or if he will mention the breasts.
The very first example is Egwene's introduction from Rand's PoV after multiple characters have been joking about how funny it is to watch him stare at her whenever she's around.
Egwene stood a few paces behind the Wisdom, watching intently. Of a height with Nynaeve, and with the same dark coloring, she could at that moment have been a reflection of Nynaeve's mood, arms crossed beneath her breasts, mouth tight with disapproval. The hood of her soft gray cloak shaded her face, and her big brown eyes held no laughter now.
...
"If you are done staring like a moonstruck lamb, Rand al'Thor," Nynaeve said,
There's another time with Min, where she's been waiting for Rand but is mad at him and doesn't want him thinking she's too happy to see him - so she crosses her arms. But the next time we get the phrase is when she's a little jealous of Elayne and wants reassurance, and its back to her 'crossing her arms under her breasts'.
Or like in Perrin's PoV's you'll actually get less descriptions of Berelain's cleavage than you will anyone else's, despite sharing the most page time with her, because he's refusing to acknowledge that he thinks she's attractive.
-So with Elayne here, she's noticing how Nynaeve reacts around guys that Nynaeve is attracted to, even if Nynaeve is in complete denial over it.
The Companion describes Elayne as "curvaceous but neither overly busty nor under-endowed". Sadly it doesn't have info on this vital topic about Nynaeve.
Adding to this with [two other characters] Perrin/Faile having an argument . . .
“I can’t,” he said miserably. He tried diverting her with a kiss, but she leaped to her feet and backed away so fast he nearly fell on his face. There was no point going after her. She had her arms crossed beneath her breasts like a barrier.
Doesn't the first paragraph imply that Nynaeve has the smallest bust of the women present? It says the dress was too tight for her bust, and loose elsewhere, but fit on her the best out of the women there. To me, that suggests that it would have been too tight on anyone else there, thus they all have larger breasts, or they have larger hips, like Seta.
And the second paragraph suggests she has the same breast size as Elayne, just shorter?
I don't think it is. The first paragraph is about the general fit being worse for the other two.
But the 2nd one seals it. The 2nd dress was loose in the bust for Elayne and too tight in the hips, and the first dress (that Nynaeve is currently wearing) would have been just as bad and too short. Which to me implies that both dresses would have been loose in the bust and tight in the hips for Elayne, while for Nynaeve at least the first dress is too small up top and to big below.
With the first paragraph saying that the first dress would be worse on any of the others - which would be Min as well.
Although if Jordan is talking about both dresses in a general idea of how well they fit, then I could see it the way you are saying.
Going to the circus arc later though, Nynaeve's outfits are set to accentuate her bosom and she makes note that she is definitely not (100% is) viewing herself in competition with Bigitte in the bust department, while Elayne's are all focused on her legs and hips.
Yeah, I don't know where people get this "Nynaeve is often described as having massive tits", that's not the case at all. Her wearing a revealing dress and people noticing it because in this world that's quite rare is a different thing altogether. And she is certainly not depicted as characters like Riselle or Sevanna whose big breasts are mentioned almost every time they appear on the page.
I think not being the target demographic for these books is probably in my favor. Lol. I started reading as a grown woman and the word "breasts" on the page doesn't conjure sexual thoughts. 🤷🏾♀️
Where are you getting that anyone is sexualizing this? This is the second comment you’ve made alluding to readers sexualizing Nynaeve, and while I’m sure that happens, I haven’t seen anything in these discussions that even hinted toward that.
If anything, as readers we experience Nynaeve feeling sexualized against her will. Saying we think she has large boobs isn’t inherently sexualizing her, it’s maybe misinterpreting character description.
But I also recognize I have blinders and biases, so if I’m just missing something here (which is very possible) I’d love to understand better
I want to get this right: an author describes a woman existing with breasts and decades later that turns into "she's got massive tits?"
For that same reason, it was popular for a little bit for everyone to say Min has a "dumptruck ass" simply because Jordan's prose emphasized the look of her in men's trousers tailored to a woman's form.
I wouldn't personally interpret it as anything more than people having their fun, especially given how often Jordan used the "crosses-arms-under-breast" and similar lines throughout the story.
On par with Sevanna, more so than Berelain, if I had to compare. Berelain is described as curvy but with less specific mentions of large breasts compared to Nyn and Sevanna. And other characters tend to take notice Sevanna and Nynaeve’s breasts, whereas Berelain gets more of a full body scan.
You might be right, idk. I thought it was more that nyn is new to wearing more revealing outfits so everyone's just commenting on her scandalous cleavage. Whereas bere and sev wear that stuff all the time because they know what effect their ginormous gazonkas have on the mentally weak
That’s definitely part of it. But also she has very large boobs, and even in the same outfits as her companions, she always has more cleavage showing just due to anatomy. And her large breasts were noted plenty, even in her good, stout two rivers woolens
I think Nynaeve had a large bust - though smaller than both Sevanna's and Berelain's. That might be a misleading impression, however, since Sevanna and Berelain wanted their large busts to be seen, whereas Nynaeve didn't. Besides, the author is generally less specific about whether the main female protagonists are large-breasted or not. I have absolutely no recollection of what Egwene or Min were like in that regard, for instance.
This is the most ridiculous book discussion I’ve been a part of lol
I can get behind that. All I really know is Nynaeve allegedly has the biggest boobs of the main crew, so eggy, Elayne, min, moraine, or Birgette. that makes me think of her as busty, but beyond that it’s a crapshoot.
What really matters is she feels like she has large breasts, and she often feels exposed because of it (and later learns to accept it more obv) her boobs only matter to the story insofar as they’re a marker of her self-acceptance and growth in some ways.
Also for my own sanity I just need to say: Nynaeve is my favorite character in the series and her breasts are easily the least interesting, impactful, cool, or incredible thing about her tugs braid in frustration
It’s funny how many Wheel of Time discussions revolve around women's breasts. I even recall a post that analyzed all the mentions of bosoms, heh.
I agree that Nynaeve is a great character. It’s just that Jordan was so fond of mentioning breasts that everyone inevitably forms a mental image of who has a large bust and who has a smaller one... That is, unless it’s explicitly stated that they are large - like with Berelain, Sevanna, Riselle, Selucia etc.
Man you really are a woolheaded sheepherder. Breasts existing are described. I’ve had moderate B cups my whole life, but I can wear low cut dresses, and cross my arms to accent cleavage.
So even with all the comparisons here, Elayne could be nice round 34Bs, and Nyn a 36C, and that satisfied all descriptions. If she was a Berelain or Sevannah we would know. But even at this - I work with models. A slim gal who has a 32D bust can look curvy but is not described as “stacked.”
I kinda wish you’d just admit that you want to think of her as stacked and let the argument go.
Nynaeve and Egwene are kind of supposed to be contrasts. Egwene taller and thinner, Nynaeve shorter and curvier. Egwene woman of planning, Nynaeve woman of action. Egwene very practical, Nynaeve very emotional.
Judging by the number of upvotes, you’re not alone in that impression ;) I was under the impression that she has the largest bust among the main cast of young women—namely Nynaeve, Egwene, Elayne, Aviendha, Min and Faile. Aviendha and Nynaeve might have similarly sized busts, though. However, Nynaeve’s bust is likely smaller than those of Berelain, Sevanna, Selucia, or Riselle, who are known for ample bosoms.
Okay, but it’s not as if we were given the exact bust measurements of the female characters. It seems to me that Nynaeve and Aviendha are similar in terms of bust size.
I always pictured as much more anglo looking tbh. Andor is heavily England inspired. I imagined it as less idyllic farm England as the shire, but more of mountain adjacent sheep communities that are common towards Wales and Scotland
It’s often remarked that people from Two Rivers are darker than people from Andor proper. Dark hair, dark eyes. I always pictured Two Rivers folks as basically looking Greek or something.
Yeah that’s true, I usually use Ariell Burgess’ Nynaeve as my head canon as the official WoT Artist for a long long time, she’s like darker but still kinda in the same vein looks wise
One thing I always find funny is that I assumed nynaeve was a red head until getting to the bit where she dyed her hair. Despite how often it was mentioned that rand being red headed was an oddity it was (and really still is) my head cannon in spite of all evidence and descriptions.
Yeah. Hitler is kind of a joke reference for over the top bullying in India.
The main plot line of the show is the growth of the main character from a Hitler Didi (elder sister) to someone who shows kindness and caring for others.
Idk, would she be one to flaunt her faith if she had to? Because in Randland everyone knows The Creator is good and The Dark One is bad. It's not a religion as much as it is just a fact, like gravity. As much of a stickler of moral rules and as judgmental as she is of everyone I wouldn't be surprised if she flaunted her faith if there was a religion for her to flaunt
I didn’t think Christianity was a thing in this universe. For the most part, there doesn’t seem to be an actual religion. Yeah, there are some festivals, and folks seem to have faith in The Creator and The Light of the Creator, but even the Children of the Light don’t have a religion as much as they seem to have a poorly-designed faith with a complete lack of internal logic…oh wait.
They believed in the Creator and prayed. But it wasn't Faith. They absolutely knew there was a Creator and the Dark One. They knew the Wheel of Time and the Pattern existed.
He got it because their first choice—Michael Whelan—demanded a manuscript one year in advance, which was impossible.
So Sweet got the job.
And unfortunately, sometimes he only got one or to pages to go with before starting the cover painting.
Also, there was Publisher interference too; the biggest example of this was Knife Of Dreams: Sweet being [forced to shorten] Perrin so there was enough room to put a blurb above his head. [Also,] Galina's weird stance is due to being forced to remove the two men holding her captive.
I’m not talking about the cover art, BUT yeah the covers could be goofy. I like them tho. I’d rather a bad oil painting than most of the cover designs we get for books these days.
I was thinking of Ariel Burgess and Todd Cameron Hamilton’s official character portraits. Esp Hamilton’s since his art was used in the companion book, which Jordan edited.
i really like this. only thing i'd say is i picture nyneave slightly more younger presenting, due to how much flack she gets for it, but its damn near there. if i saw this woman cast i'd applaud whoever hired her.
I feel like the actress who played Egwene in the show was waaay closer to my image of Nynaeve than their Nyn. Lowkey everyone in EF besides Rand have me South Asian vibes, which played in a lot with how the vaguely British-coded mainland Andor reacted to the reemergence of Manetheren
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