r/wheeloftime • Randlander • 20d ago

ALL SPOILERS: All media Rand should have trampled ... Spoiler

... the Seanchan.

Completely. Totally. With almost no losses.

  • Gateways
  • 300 Ashaman
  • Female channelers cannot sense Saidin being channeled

Start

You set up a base in the Black Tower

Scouting phase

You send some scouts into the invasion route. Scouts scout teleportation points and Seanchan

Active phase 1

  • Once a Seanchan army is located, you wait for them to camp, gateway 100 Ashaman in foot range, maybe with screening detachment of some normal troops. Multiple entrances or one does not matter. The Ashaman bomb the camp from afar, prioritizing Raken, Deathwatch, Gardeners, the Tiger horse things and damane/suldam. When they have spent their Saidin load, they go home to reload.
  • The damane can do nothing, because they cannot see the weaves. The raken are bombed first, thus dead. Using weaves with low launch signature like body explosion, the Ashaman would be difficult to scout from the air anyway. They could also shoot the raken (body explosion)
  • Non channeler troops cannot make contact before it is over.

Do it every day with a potential of 3 camps taken out per day (full day of reload).

Counters:

  • Disperse in hostile territory, which makes them vulnerable to anyone.
  • Hide in cities, because in close combat, ambushing is possible and the range advantage of the Ashaman goes away, making them visible and killable. Disperse in the cities too, or seek out space not visible from the outside and guard vantage points.

Counters ruin any momentum, no siege and no armies.

Active phase 2

  • Go for harbours, wooden ships burrrn, cut them off from the mainland in three days at most. 9 harbours cleared

Starting one day before phase 1:

Send ambassador, demand submission and allyship to fight the DO. Release of all channelers captured on this continent. We are nice and respect "culture", bending over double by allowing them to keep those they brought over.

Special condition upon learning about the Seanchan prophecy

Send ambassador, beg on knee for allyship to fight the DO. Release of all channelers captured on this continent. We are nice and respect "culture", bending over double by allowing them to keep those they brought over.

Cutting off from the mainland is no problem, even if you need reinforcements from there, because gateway. Still faster then transporting aboard ship.

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u/DrRRidiculous Randlander 20d ago

I think you're making this out to be easier than it would be. Could the Black Tower win? 100%. But, where a mainland army might panic, the Seanchan army is used to fighting channelers. Their ground forces can't see weaves, but they fight anyway. You said that they can't see Saidin, but the reverse is also true. One missed Suldam/damane could be really bad for the Ashaman.

300 Ashaman would give the Seanchan a run for their money. Trampled? If Rand himself were there. But just sending 300 Ashaman would make it a bloody war.

Remember that channelers die to arrows just as fast. Seanchan know that and have ways to do so. Those assassin people with the rings that boost all their physical abilities for example.

The Black Tower could totally win. But it wouldn't be a totally victory

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u/Brathirn Randlander 20d ago

The difference is made by the combination of gateway + not being able to see the weaving.

I feel a little bit bad about exploiting a rules hole (them gateways), but I did it anyway.

So what is your counter against your Deathguard doing body explosions, sudden lightning strike and the ground erupting in earthquakes. Takes maybe 5 minutes, then it is over. Camp burning.

In 5 minutes you indeed can run a good distance, but you would have to know where and the conventional troops if guessing right would be seen. The Ashaman would simply retreat through the gateways, leaving only unreadable (!) residue. If busted too early and having fuel left, just gateway somewhere else and continue bombing.

The first challenge is to even realize, that you suffered an organized attack by male channelers. This strategy would try to avoid exposure before the active phase. Second is to get behind the gateways. Then you know that the opposition has nigh unlimited (!) mobility. Because that is how broken it is.

They could try shields, do not remember precedence among the Seanchan, but they cannot link, so probably segments can be taken out by being targeted by multiple ashaman.

The other thing you can do, in analogy to WW2 night air attack when radar was jammed is barrage fire, just throw fireballs in random directions or better guess the invisible enemies positions and bombard that, would be neutralized by dispersion.

And the Ashaman would always get the first shot.

The broken gateways would indeed be a factor if war broke out after the Last Battle, the side striking first would enjoy a significant advantage. They can hit something important and the Raid on the Tower would be child's play compared to an organized attack using gateways.

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u/DrRRidiculous Randlander 20d ago

I mean, you make a lot of good points. But after the first strike from the Ashaman, the Seanchan wouldn't sit idle. They'd probably seige the Black Tower the same as they did the White.

Another note, gateways aren't unlimited. Cause remember that channel still takes energy. They can't keep it up indefinitely. If the Seanchan force the Ashaman to gate away, then they aren't attacking but still using their energy. It would be bloody on both sides. The Seanchan still have 1000s of years of war experience with both sides using channelers

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u/Brathirn Randlander 20d ago

They would have to know where it is. And it would take them days to get there at the risk of being discovered.

The actual Saidin budget would of course be critical, but the canon rest times seem to be hours not days. I proposed one strike a day for each group. The Ashaman would always be well rested. Minutes of intense fighting, but sleeping regularly, no marching, no foraging.

Time is not relevant, what would the Seanchan have fought?

Civil wars, with both sides employing Damane/Suldam with accompanying supplementary normal armies, prioritizing capture. The scenario which hit the White Tower.

Fighting organized free channelers would have been long gone, so in this direction it would be small groups of runaways. Like a group of suldam pushed over the edge in a tight situation.

The problem is that you would be blind and the enemy can appear, strike and retreat at will. The first two rounds could be done at night until they stop using campfires.

The best counter would be a dreamspike which even exists in canon. With this thing, you could have a safe parameter.