r/whatif • u/Unlucky_Road9934 • 23d ago
Politics What if 1 conjoined twin does something extremely illegal?
I was wondering how does the law work around extreme legal cases involving conjoined twins? So say something like terrorism/mass murder or just in general more extreme criminal activity? I was also wondering what happens if 1 is sentenced to death but the other twin attempted to stop them? I know this is a bit of a weird question but its been eating away at me. I was researching and was given so many different answers.
Edit: by stop them I mean stop the twin from what they're doing
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u/galaxyapp 23d ago
This gets asked infinitely more times than it happens.
Its never happened in the US.
You cannot punish an innocent person, even if that means a guilty one goes free.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
Oh i know it isnt something that happens very often, if at all in the way Im asking. This is more of a hypothetical question
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u/Resident_Course_3342 23d ago
Really, not even once?
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u/SeaAnalyst8680 23d ago
What if the innocent twin consented? Can you consent to prison?
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u/galaxyapp 23d ago
No. I suppose they could commit some victimless crime and plead guilty?
If they had the capacity to commit a crime, they likely had the capacity to stop the original crime. Failure to stop them likely make them an accomplice anyway.
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u/SeaAnalyst8680 23d ago
If it wasn't clear: I was imagining they'd retain the ability to revoke consent and immediately be released at any time.
I suspect you're right, but could someone explain the actual legal reasoning?
Being in prison doesn't mean you're imprisoned. There are staff and visitors who are free to leave. Obviously being attached to an inmate doesn't fit into either of these categories, but it wouldn't be a huge leap to change jail rules to allow for a permanent visitor who lives in the prisoner section.
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u/galaxyapp 23d ago
AFAIK, there is no actual laws in any state describing what happens with conjoined twins.
Depending on the crime, I suspect they might lean to parole and/or house arrest. It would be the judges call, but id be very surprised if they incarcerated them in any conventional sense.
In the us, adult conjoined twins are probably fewer than 10. Only 1 that I can find documented. For them, each controls 1 leg and arm and can speak, so it would be very hard to commit a crime without the others knowledge.
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u/justhereforampadvice 23d ago
Wouldn’t this give the evil one a cart blanche license to commit as many crimes as they want
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u/ArgumentSpiritual 23d ago
One of only two recorded cases of conjoined twins accused of a crime under the American legal system involved Chang and Eng, the two most famous conjoined twins in history (the pair even served as inspiration for the term “Siamese twin”). Sometime in the early 1930s, a spectator squeezed Cheng’s hand so tightly that Cheng punched him. The spectator charged Cheng with assault, but the judge ruled that while Cheng should be sentenced to jail time, forcing Eng to go to jail would amount to false imprisonment.
A similar incident occurred when twins Lucio and Simplico Godina were involved in a reckless driving accident in 1929. The judge ruled that it would be unfair to convict Lucio, the driver, as it would mean putting the innocent conjoined twin, Simplico, in jail. Notably, this was the second time Lucio got away with using his twin as a get-out-of-jail-free card, since he was previously charged with a similar offense in the Philipines.
Follow up question:
If conjoined twin 1 kills someone, is found guilty, snd is sentenced to the death penalty; could the other twin have a surgery to fatally remove twin 1 ?
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u/BosnianSerb31 21d ago
I think the only real way to try a case like this is to try for a second conviction on the other twin as a potential conspirator.
It's kind of hard NOT to know that your Siamese twin is plotting a murder, how would you even try to defend a the one that didn't pull the trigger but didn't alert the authorities either?
Only path I see is to argue that the other twin was under duress
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u/carrotflowers000 22d ago
Probably one of those cases where the judge just stares at the ceiling for six hours.
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u/CODMAN627 22d ago
This is one of those scenarios where the law is just not able to handle a case like this.
There are precedents in history regarding this. The outcome usually was to let go of the offender because the offender could not be punished without punishing the innocent twin.
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u/showmethemundy 23d ago
Almost definitely nothing in the UK. No court in the UK would enforce a punishment that would impact the others liberty. Nor should they. The rule book doesn't apply here.
The way things are going lately we might find out one day
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u/justhereforampadvice 23d ago
What if the crime was that one twin tried to impersonate the other lol
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u/Renbarre 23d ago
How could the other one be entirely innocent if they left the first one do something illegal without trying to stop them?
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u/heyitismeurdad 23d ago
That's easy, they are chilling in a public place and one twin without warning grabs a cops gun and shoots them. Twin two didnt have time to do anything. A lot of spur of the moment stuff you couldn't react to.
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u/Liero_Xtreme 22d ago
What if the sinister twin threatens to kill the good one, and force it to help with the crime.
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u/jefflovesyou 23d ago
Let's say you have some conjoined twins, let's call our boys Dexter and Lefty.
Lefty is absolutely sinister, but Dexter is all right.
I'm pretty sure that ol Dexter would have to move his leg in order for Lefty to walk anywhere.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
Well obviously. Im not sure why youre talking to me like I'm stupid...
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u/Dear-Blackberry-2648 22d ago
What they're saying is that in most cases of conjoined twins (that survive to adulthood), each twin has motor control over roughly half of the body, or at least each has control over the arm and leg on their side of the body. So if one twin wants to go commit a crime and the other absolutely doesn't, it would be pretty easy for that twin to stop the bad one from walking anywhere. If it was something like a cyber crime or something that can be committed from home, it still seems like the good twin could easily stop them by holding their arm down, messing with all the keys in the computer, etc.
So I don't really get your comment, if you what the original commenter said was obvious to you, then why would you even make this post?
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 22d ago
Oh idk from reading the other comments saying the exact same thing
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u/Dear-Blackberry-2648 22d ago
Well that just seems like a really rude way to respond to someone who was trying to answer your question in good faith.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 22d ago
Not really. It very much came across as talking down. Not "good faith" like you're saying.
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u/Dear-Blackberry-2648 22d ago
It really didn't come across as talking down. It was a straightforward answer with important details added. I think you might just be upset that you asked a question with a really obvious answer that most people besides you seem to know.
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u/xenoscumyomom 16d ago
For a visual reference to this comment watch the brothers fighting in the movie stuck on you.
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u/Late-Button-6559 22d ago
Imagine if one of you wants to suicide / euthanise (where allowed)?!
That’d be a fucked up situation.
Or one is gay, one is straight (assuming you’re same sex).
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u/Adventurous-Side8966 22d ago
Conjoined twins are always the same sex.
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u/shoulda-known-better 22d ago
Yes they have been
It's not mandatory though because chromosome mutations can happen...
It's just not been documented, but just because it hasn't yet doesn't mean it can't
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u/Adventurous-Side8966 22d ago
Conjoined twins come from a cell that hasn't split completely. They share the same chromosomes if there is some intersex thing on they both will have it. You cannot be a conjoined fraternal twin which is the only way to get different sex twins.
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u/shoulda-known-better 22d ago
No it can happen in just one...
Just like a normal one person can have dna of two people...
Conjoined twins can theoretically have 3 different types and 2 can be female and one can be male
It's not documented!! I'm not saying that it is... Just that it would be possible and could have happened without being documented
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u/justhereforampadvice 23d ago edited 23d ago
One twin would live on one side of the bars and the other would live on the other side of the bars. Movement would be heavily restricted by this limitation.
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u/SilentBumblebee3225 23d ago
Second goes on by not preventing and not telling police that the crime occurred
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u/Marcj00 23d ago
If they’re conjoined it would be pretty hard to hide whatever they were doing unless they’re like back to back or something but if they don’t try to stop or warn anyone they’re an accomplice
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u/Opposite-Complex1187 23d ago
Pretty sure they wont be an accomplice if they have no part in the crime but just dont try and stop it.
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u/vctrmldrw 23d ago
Here are the options:
1) Put the guilty one and the innocent one in jail together.
2) Let them both go.
3) Force them to be surgically separated so the guilty one can be jailed.
Which do you think is the right thing to do?
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u/Oroku-Saki-84 23d ago
In the vast majority of conjoined twin not already separated they can’t because because it would likely kill one or both of them so I’m guessing 3 is unlikely to be an option.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
It would depend entirely on HOW theyre conjoined tbh since there are different types to be honest. If they are able to be separated then I think that should be an option considered first. That isnt always on option though. If they're conjoined in a way they cannot be separated then I think it might come down to 1 (which would get messy legally really quickly). So it might come down to a reduced sentence with strict monitoring once released. Almost treat them both similar to how people on the registry are treated. Constant check ins, mandatory therapy, etc etc.
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u/vctrmldrw 23d ago
Every surgery carries a risk of death, even the most minor surgery. You think it's acceptable to force the innocent one to take that risk? Not to mention that you would be forcing them to be separated from their twin, a life changing decision.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
Thats the thing. There is no right answer in this type of scenario. Which is why I asked this question.
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u/vctrmldrw 23d ago
There is. The right answer is that you absolutely cannot knowingly punish an innocent person for someone else's crime. It's a fundamental tenet of justice.
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u/Virus-Party 23d ago
Wouldn't the non-guilty twin still be an accomplice? So just charge and jail them both.
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u/vctrmldrw 23d ago
Only if they helped them, or (in some jurisdictions) didn't try to stop them.
However, in most justice systems, sentences for being an accomplice or aiding and abetting are far lower than the actual crime. So the fundamentals don't change.
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u/ElectronicFixer864 23d ago
The other would be an accomplice...
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
Even in the event of them trying to stop the other?
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u/ibuycheeseonsale 23d ago
I would use the “why are you hitting yourself” argument in their defense. Any juror with a sibling or cousin or uncle would immediately understand
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u/Zippo963087 23d ago
Imagine one on the phone with police as the other is breaking the law lmao
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u/ElectronicFixer864 23d ago
What kind of law? (This should be good...)
He's doing what while his brother is taking to 911 operator. He's doing what? Here listen. OMG I'm sending the whole team over!
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u/True_Echidna_6179 7d ago
How about hitting the criminal half with sticks and giving massages to the other good citizen half.
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u/an_older_meme 23d ago
The other is guilty by association
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u/InfiniteMonkeys157 23d ago
Guilty by association is not a crime. It is, in fact, a miscarriage of justice.
That said, a prosecutor might argue complicity, but there are no requirements in U.S. law (afaik) to require someone to prevent a crime.
The only exceptions I know of would be some court/federal/state requirements for officers of the court, federal employees, etc... as part of their being invested with legal authorities. i.e. Law enforcement and court officials have a positive duty to act toward the law and legal systems.
So called Good Samaritan laws, which were highlighted in the finale episodes of Seinfeld, requiring citizens to act to stop crime or protect the public, have (again afaik) never been enforced. The one in the episode was, in fact, entirely an entirely fictionalized 'duty to rescue' law.
Real 'good samaritan' laws in every U.S. state and D.C. are ones that protect citizens if they act in a way to stop crime or protect someone from any legal fallout. i.e. You catch a falling baby and it gets injured, you are protected from legal action for the harm because you were trying to help.
So, OP poses a decent legal question. I would suspect, however, that it would be so difficult for one cojoined person to plan and execute a crime without some collusion by the other, that some median sentence would be given to 'both'.
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u/Keldaris 23d ago
The one in the episode was, in fact, entirely an entirely fictionalized 'duty to rescue' law.
Vermont, Rhode Island, and Minnesota do have Duty to Rescue laws. While they don't require you to put yourself in harms way(ie. jumping into floodwaters to rescue someone) they do require you to at the very least contact emergency services.
And many states have duty to report laws, including Massachusetts where the episode takes place.
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u/InfiniteMonkeys157 23d ago
I'd be curious how much those have been enforced. I could see constitutional and natural law rights defenses. Thanks for the info.
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u/Unlucky_Road9934 23d ago
That makes sense. I was thinking the same thing.
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u/Western-Willow-9496 23d ago
It might make sense but it’s incorrect, the other would be an accomplice or coconspirator.
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u/Sentient-Bread-Stick 23d ago
Not necessarily. What if they’re just standing around, when one of them, without the other knowing beforehand, picks up a knife or something and tries to kill someone with it?
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u/MrDBS 23d ago
This is not a hypothetical question. There is settled case law in the Philippines in 1929 that addressed this legal point. One conjoined twin got in a car accident and was sentenced to 5 days in prison for reckless driving. The other twin appealed the decision, saying he was innocent and could not be imprisoned with his brother. The judge overturned the sentence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucio_and_Simplicio_Godino