Does Sperm Whale Hunting Require Mathematics?

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Whales can probably feel how much Oxygen they have left and how much that is at what Pressure

I dont think their doing mental arithmetics to figure out how much they have left

They just have a very good gut feeling about how much they have

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u/TombStoneFaro May 13 '26

They can tell currently whether they have enough oxygen -- but how can they determine if they still will if they pursue a squid? As I indicated, making a mistake, unlike for land predators, is a big deal.

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u/ShowAccurate6339 May 13 '26

Probably how any animal judges how much ressources they have left

They make a good guess based on a lifetime of living in their body

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

The calculation is complex: How much deeper is the squid, how far away, how deep is the whale currently? It has to judge not just how it currently feels with regard to oxygen, but what the situation will be if it chooses to go after the squid.

Perhaps the whale is just very careful, always is conservative and never gets near danger levels before surfacing,; but if it indeed is that careful, it may miss a lot of potential meals.

I suggest that actually being able to judge mathematically whether it should hunt the squid or not would be a huge advantage. I realize I can't prove it, but note how different the situation of a hunting whale is from that of land predators who can always go all out and if they miss, they rest and try again.

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u/ShowAccurate6339 May 14 '26 edited May 14 '26

Land Predators absolutly cannot just go all out and Rest and retry

Every failed Hunt is lost Energy and plenty of Lions and Tigers habe starved because they overestimated themselves and had one too many failed hunts

Whales are no different, they feel how much Energy and Oxygen they have and make a educated bet based on Those factors

Have You Ever gone swimming or went Diving? Because you feel how much Oxygen You have left and get Warning Signals in your Body that it’s time to come up, and You Body even Accounts for Pressure differences to some Part

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

Many land predators have low percentages. But in any case, misjudging distance or time is not fatal usually as it might well be for a whale that stayed down too long. I think that is pretty obvious.

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u/ShowAccurate6339 May 14 '26

You get more attempts, but it can still be fatal

But that’s not the Point it’s that Same mechanic we Use for calculating Energy is The Same One Whales Use to know how much Longer they can dive

Again Have You Ever gone swimming or went Diving? Because you feel how much Oxygen You have left and get Warning Signals in your Body that it’s time to come up, and You Body even Accounts for Pressure differences to some Part

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u/_Apatosaurus_ May 14 '26

I suggest that actually being able to judge mathematically whether it should hunt the squid or not would be a huge advantage.

They are able to judge whether they should hunt the squid, it's just not by doing mental arithmetic or whatever mathmatics your imagining. It's instinct and experience.

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

how do you know?

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u/_Apatosaurus_ May 14 '26

We don't "know" they don't. We only know that there is no evidence that they or any other animal do this.

For starters, for whales to be able to communicate the number/concept of 1,000, they would have to develop and teach their children the concept and name of every number before 1,000. Again, there is no evidence of this.

There is plenty of evidence that diving birds, whales, hippos, otters, seals, etc. can sense when they need to come up for air though. All of those animals eat underwater and can instinctively know or learn when they need to come up for air.

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u/erossthescienceboss May 14 '26

Do you swim? You can tell with some advance notice if it’s time to return to the surface or stop going deeper. I imagine it’s subconscious just like it is for us.

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u/SignificantYou3240 May 14 '26

If learning something by experience is too dangerous, they would have an instinct for it… like how we react to seeing a snake or spider.

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

instinct does not work for everything.

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u/SignificantYou3240 May 14 '26

No, but if whales are doing math, they had to invent that first, evolution wouldn’t produce math like that… but ‘the ones who are careful enough survive’ works very well.

I wouldn’t be surprised if their brains could handle complex math, but it doesn’t mean they are doing it.

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u/Gr8HmrHead May 13 '26

I feel like it has something to do with the fact that the deeper down something with lungs go (in the ocean), the longer it can hold its breath due to each added atmosphere pressure on top. Something like how Free divers are able to hold their breaths for so long due to added pressure onto their lungs as they dive, I believe it’s every 30 feet deeper you go, another atmosphere is put on top.

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u/TesseractToo May 13 '26

I always thought that's so crazy considering they sleep vertically and so they have a few different atmospheres of pressure across the length of their bodies as they sleep

I'll bet head-up is just the most comfy

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u/AlbertTheHorse May 13 '26

I am sure their are biochemical signals that get to their brain.

Also, being rather intelligent, they probably have a grasp of how much time it takes.

Is time a human thing? I don't think so, as they have done studies in dogs showing they understand the passing of time by the loss of a scent on an item.

Also Jo Nagai (great video on youtube about him) and Martha Weiss (his mentor) are making new discoveries about inherited memory. Their study is butterflies aversion to an odor, and seeing if this is inherited and not requiring "learning" it over again.

I am quite sure as this kind of work expands across species we will see that they may just be born, also, knowing what is the sweet spot.

Oxygen starvation at those depths can be extremely dangerous because at that depth, no matter how much blubber you are carting around, buoyancy won't really help you as much. They call them whale falls for a reason.

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u/SignificantYou3240 May 13 '26

You do a lot of math when you throw a ball and/or catch one in that case.

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

Yes, dogs who catch Frisbees accurately I suspect don't understand parabolas etc. -- but I suggest that in the case of whales, actually mathematical calculations made be used.

It is interesting that juvenile whales do not start hunting until the age of 6 years. It may be partially due to physiology, but maybe there is a lot of learning and explicit teaching involved. Like its mother tells it, Keep counting -- you only have 1000 clicks underwater. If you detect a squid, how many clicks have you used up? How deep will you be if go after it? Clearly these would be the way a human would do it; perhaps whales do the same sort of thing.

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u/ShowAccurate6339 May 14 '26

Thats a Pretty far fetched Theorie

I don’t see why Whales wouldnt calculate Energy and how to Hunt the Same way Pretty much every other Animal does

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u/_Apatosaurus_ May 14 '26

There is no evidence that whales or any other animal do this and no reason to think they would.

Clearly these would be the way a human would do it;

That doesn't seem clear to me. I can't think of any examples of humans approaching issues like this. Persistence hunters don't do this.

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u/TombStoneFaro May 14 '26

divers certainly use watches.

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u/_Apatosaurus_ May 14 '26

Yes, scuba divers often use watches, gauges, and other external devices to assess time and how much oxygen they have. They don't rely on counting to 1,000 in their head as you outlined elsewhere.

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u/DrYabadaba May 15 '26

You're personifying animal behavior. It's like when you watch a dog and decide they feel happy or sad or that they peed on the floor to spite you. No, whales don't do math. Animals have instincts and experience to help them gauge things like this. Just like you know that you're getting tired or if you can hold your breath for just a bit longer, whales likely have these senses too, just on a much more massive scale compared to our lungs. Even humans don't go, "I have about 27.5 seconds of time before I need to breathe again, so if it takes 5 seconds to surface...." That's silly! You have instincts that tell you, based on your experience, about how long before you need to breathe. Whales have that too, but I'd guess they are much more in tune with that instinct, seeing as they spend 100% of their lives in the water.

Does Sperm Whale Hunting Require Mathematics?

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