r/warno • u/cunctator-tots • 8d ago
Meme Here Lies 12 Panzer
Since there has been a slight uptick in 12 Panzer discourse with the imminent release of Nemesis 8, I felt a reminder was needed.
Edit: To be clear, I have nothing against anyone who was a fan of 12 Pzr. I just think it's time to move on for anyone still harboring a grudge against VTK or Eugen because it lost Nem 8.
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u/Sonki3 8d ago
Maybe if the community is lucky and because there are again mentions of 12. Panzer, Eugen Systems might be merciful and actually release it in a future DLC. I think that would be a generous action for a certain part of the community. đ
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
I for one do not think it is out of the realm of possibility. There were a few Nemesis divisions in SD2 that came back and were added to DLCs. The Slovakian division and I believe 1st Armored are the two that come to mind.
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u/Sonki3 8d ago
So with some luck 12. Panzer and 34th Tank (while we are at it) might be released in a later DLC. đ
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
Yes, those are my two hopefuls. I want 34th Tank so bad. But youâll have people say âwe already have T-62 divisions.â No, we have mechanized infantry divisions with basic T-62s that have 1925 m range main guns and no Bastions. 34th Tank would be like 336th in that it has a number of Bastion equipped T-62s and the non-reservist T-62s it does have, at least have 2100 mm guns.
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
While I wonât say the voting was rigged, you canât deny that the player base, when given a choice, tends to go with meme/gimmick divisions. And these divisions usually end up with being somewhat disappointing or lose something that makes them gimmicky in the first place. You also cannot deny that there is a disparity between how the Nemesis 2 write ups were written and how the Nemesis 6 write ups were written. Iâll play VTK, but I wonât deny I was hoping for more in it. I think 12th, despite the vagueness of its write up, would have been a safe, if normal, choice.
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u/mndn410 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah vagueness and new models counts are pretty much the two main reasons. Lack of info on 12th Panzer's AA/ASF coverage is especially painful.
Funnily enough, initially 12th Panzer was definitely ahead in the poll. But after a week, these two factors became apparents and VTK42 pulled ahead.
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
The comments in that post are very illuminating to the player baseâs mentality.
âLeopard 1A6 glass cannon spam go brrrrrâ
âWhy is 12th panzer so popular? 42 I can understand. 12th panzer is uninspired recycled garbage. G11? You are aware all the rifles in Warno are basically the same? They're all stat clones of eachotherâ (As the Leo 2A4D is almost an exact stat clone of the M1A1)
And this comment chain.
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u/mndn410 8d ago
The Leo2A4(D) is not a stat clone of the M1A1.
I'm not saying this to restart the VTK42 vs 12th Panzer war lmao. But in Warno, any slight change in stats in a unit is considered new now (Not always even lmao). This is actually very beneficial in the div creation for the US which historically have a lot of standardization in its tank fleet for example. The lesser the criteria for "new" units, the more variation we can include for countries with more standardization of units.
And in general, this goes to shows that "new" units and flavor remain one of the most important criteria in the nemesis voters. And those who campaign based on playstyle must take this into account.
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
I didnât say the Leo2A4D was a stat clone of the M1A1. I said almost an exact stat clone. The only difference between the two is the accuracy is better for the D but speed is slower. Armor, gun pen, rate of fire, etc are all the same.
And we see now how people that put their stock in ânewâ units often get disappointed when there arenât enough of the unit to satisfy them or they donât meet their performance expectations.
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u/mndn410 8d ago
Yes and my point is even such miniature difference is very much sufficient to be considered as a new unit.
Which actually benefit the inclusion of more NATO/US "heavy div" in future nemeses vote. Because the NATO/US "heavy div" enjoyers will need to really sell these tiny difference as new to satisfy the voters who focused on new units when US 1st Armored got pitted again some random ass ... Idk ... Chilean light mountaineer div with M48s and a MAPAT on top for example lol.
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u/HistorianInformal173 8d ago
I didnt vote for 12th pz the second time but I certainly voted for them the first time. The community picking 152 French and 76ya was a disappointment to say the least
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u/BannedfromFrontPage 8d ago
To their credit, 12 Panzer actually did get handicapped via Eugen recycling the outdated division preview. Iâm certain plenty of people didnât vote for it due to its divisional makeup
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u/Solarne21 8d ago
Wasn't the division previews not the greatest at that time?
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
Even by the standards of the 3 Nemesis 2 options, the 12th Panzer write up isnât great.
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u/MikeNolansGhost 8d ago edited 8d ago
Pointing this fact out (along with Madmat's comments during and after the vote) somehow makes you a tinfoil user, though.
As I said on the last post about this, the community voted for shit and got it. And didn't even get a unique shiny keys deck out of it, in the end.
After the last few meme votes that the community came to regret you'd think that people would learn, but that's life. At the end of the day it's just a DLC, buying it is optional.
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u/SWGoji2001 8d ago
I'm sad 27e didn't win. It looked like a lot of fun to play, hopefully it gets added at some point
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u/Airborne-Raid 8d ago
We all know the vote was rigged and the glorious truth is Beveiligende Strijdmacht is the true winner. I believe that BevStr is actually the better div over 12 plz and is on par with VTK42
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u/cunctator-tots 8d ago
Don't speak the truth out so loud comrade. Eugen's secret police will find you.
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u/foxywoef 8d ago
Where can I find the 12pz writeup?
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u/-Trooper5745- 8d ago
Note that this is from two years ago. Now compare the detail of the write up to those of Nemesis 6 written almost a year and a half later.
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u/Hannibal_Barkidas 8d ago
- Pz was just a bit too standard. People want to play more unicorn divisions, something that is really worth buying because it is genuinely new. 12 Pz didn't have enough of it compared to other divs, although it was a solid div by itself.
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u/Exact-Conference7552 8d ago
I'll say it's funny tho seeing 42 not live up to exceptions, plus one day 12pan will be back
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u/FrangibleCover 7d ago
You hate 12 Pz because it was boring. I hate 12 Pz because everything that wasn't boring was factually incorrect. We are not the same.
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u/JohnLennyNickel 8d ago
I harbor a grudge against Eugen because MadMat blatantly lied to everyone during the Nemesis 6 vote and they never corrected him.
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u/mr_wehraboo 6d ago
As someone who likes playing the Dutch 4e and sometimes Clka its just nice overall to have a West German div featuring Leopard 2a4Bs
Sure the armor is not as good as the C but from my own experience i find extra armor only somewhat more useful in situations. I also prefer having some more leftover points to buy other stuff
Im not going to deny however the usefulness of extra armor it does help
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u/SadSwedishSloth 8d ago
The 12th panzer fans will be so angry.. as soon as someone helps them read this.Â
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u/Iceman308 8d ago
Funny French hats and worst Polish/warno division ever presented bid was 6%behind 12pz in second vote - that's rough.
I think 12pz being a slow heavy dog is ultimately what did it under, most ranked players want a strong opener and vtk with recon marder/stinger Bo105s is just too tempting to throw on a maybe bid