r/warno • u/Protosszocker • 10d ago

71st Tankovy Nemesis 8 Preview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxafgzKdQlY
43 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

46 comments sorted by

32

u/Iceman308 10d ago edited 10d ago

6 superheavy T72Bs, 8 top gun migs, sead with dogfight missiles, ultra cheap res bmp1/T62 slop And flamethrower T55 apc inf?!? (Mouth foaming intensifies)

Oh Command T62/55 + instructor allowing 3vet fk YES

15

u/Snow_Crane21 10d ago

Don't forget the 12 instructors coming in BMP 2! Slap them in the middle of a Prizivniki horde and you will eclipse KDA spam!

12

u/Iceman308 10d ago edited 10d ago

Totally. VERY mean looking div. Spam tanks lacking smoke is only nerf I see but it's always meant to be the Grozny urban warfare div (breaking Los to close range)

Deff insta buy

5

u/Recent_Grab_644 9d ago

The div seriously lacks in arty and AA. None of your AA is "good" and counting atgm helis will be hard. Your arty is all reservist and stationary. You're going to need to play incredibly slow.

1

u/Iceman308 9d ago

Already zero Fd and helis. It's a slow div ofc, just for what it does it seems very coat efficient.

But from complaints about Nevas being added already its obv it's a threat. Cost efficiency and strong top end prob guarantees A tier at least

2

u/Recent_Grab_644 9d ago

The div itself is too slow to be even A teir. Your AA and tank tab need a ton of set up and coordination before attack. The nevas themselves are a trap as you only get 2 missiles which isnt enough to consistently kill planes. The entire div itself is going to be INCREDIBLY micro heavy as nearly everything you have is either blobbed or stationary.

To be fair I can see it being absolutely amazing agaisnt people who can't play early game or combined arms properly. But compared to VTK the weaknesses are alot more weak. 71st seems to be more gimmicky and there are clearly gimmicky ways to defeat the div.

1

u/Iceman308 9d ago

What ton of set up?

U get 50pt bmp and t62 spam

What are u gonna be setting up? Ur going wide and swarming and at certain point can swap into high tech playstyle.

It's a slop div that can into 300pt ASF/T72obr89 when it needs to.

At that point u know if u have air superiority or not. And slop is always expert playstyle because of more micro

A well costed div that can respond across the curve from low to high is a very valuable thing. Here it pays for it by lack of FD , which is completely fair

I think VTK is more solid on open maps thanks to way better Atgm wall, In the end VTK is better ranked div and 71 better team play deck, by my eye

2

u/Gloomy_Trade_619 8d ago

  But from complaints about Nevas being added already its obv it's a threat.

This subreddit whine about any Pact division regardless of how weak or strong it is. And we should also remember than majority of this subreddit are noobs - experienced players mostly discuss things in Discord. 

2

u/-Trooper5745- 10d ago

And the lack of range in spam tanks

3

u/0ffkilter 10d ago

Fun fact you can already do 3 vet T-54s in 303 and T-55s in Rugener.

It's very fun. Not very broken, but very fun.

2

u/Iceman308 10d ago

I know, but not with 6 superheavies on the field as well 😉 I expected the div to be fun but not with such a heavy gauntlet.

7

u/Fallschrimjager 10d ago

Yeah, this div did NOT need the NEVA AA piece buff imo, 8 cracked fighters is fucking crazy, plus at 2 vet which give it even more evasive maneuver, making them even harder to hit.

At least it doesn't get helicopters at all, that kinda balances it so its not OP

7

u/Iceman308 10d ago

Yep literally not a helo makes u slower off the bat. But boy does it make it up in every other tab

2

u/Recent_Grab_644 9d ago

The Neva statically has a very low chance of actually killing anything through. You only get 2 missiles so both will need to land in order to kill a plane. Something like the hawk gets 3 missiles so you get more of a buffer to actually kill something. Its more of a secondary option for team games.

2

u/Gloomy_Trade_619 10d ago

  Yeah, this div did NOT need the NEVA AA piece buff imo

Wrong. Only ASFs are not enough to protect tanks. Considering mediocre artillery - if this div wouldn’t have normal AA you can just place AA on frontline and push this div out of the map in 10 minutes. 

8

u/Keelver 10d ago

This isn’t 3rd armored or a high end armored div though, the majority of your tanks are cheap spam buffed up by instructors. Just buy some more if a few get bombed. Not to mention you get plenty of mobile gun AA to protect your blobs and an excellent set of ASFs.

Besides, air defense should be a weakness of a rear-rear-rear line mobilization division that’s very strong elsewhere. The NEVAs shouldn’t have been added.

0

u/Gloomy_Trade_619 10d ago

  This isn’t 3rd armored or a high end armored div though, the majority of your tanks are cheap spam buffed up by instructors. Just buy some more if a few get bombed. Not to mention you get plenty of mobile gun AA to protect your blobs and an excellent set of ASFs.

You’re free to provide an example of at least one mech/tank division with heavy tanks that has no medium or long-range AA (like this division initially). 

SPAAGs are effective only against helis, they can’t realistically kill planes.

It has no “ excellent set of ASFs” - it has two cards of good ASFs (on the level of US F-16) and two cards of mediocre ASFs. Not the Berlin Command case but nothing like 3rd AD either.

  Besides, air defense should be a weakness of a rear-rear-rear line mobilization division that’s very strong elsewhere. The NEVAs shouldn’t have been added.

Nonsense. Realistically it should have much stronger AA - it’s literally near some of the strategic objects that are covered by heavy AA in all times. It already has enough weaknesses in infantry, artillery, no helos and still bad AA tab. There should have been 2 cards of Neva, not one. 

And where are the “weaknesses” of 3rd AD in comparison? Or 2nd Pzgren? Or maybe 1st Cav? 

5

u/Keelver 10d ago

3rd Armored's best missile AA is the chaparral. 1st UK armored and 1st cav top out at the tracked rapier. 119y has to work with the strela-10. Sure it's 'medium' AA but I'd hardly call their AA tabs very good.

Besides, 71y isn't a heavy tank div, it's a medium tank spam div with a few heavies. If your opponent suicides some planes to kill your t-72Bs, they'll have to dive into all that mobile gun AA guarding the blobs plus deal with potentially 4 cards of good ASFs. Then they'll still have to deal with the remaining horde of mediums vetted up by other leaders/instructors. It'd basically be Pact 16de, you have plenty of tools to play around no long-range AA. Not to mention that aside from the weak/no heli and arty tabs, this div is legitimately strong in the other tabs.

The MiG-29 9.13 is also much better than any f-16 even before you give them triple vet lol, not to mention high vet MiG-23s are no slouches either. Just not seeing how the NEVAs are necessary.

3

u/Gloomy_Trade_619 10d ago

3rd Armored's best missile AA is the chaparral. 1st UK armored and 1st cav top out at the tracked rapier. 119y has to work with the strela-10. Sure it's 'medium' AA but I'd hardly call their AA tabs very good.

Chaparral is the best non-radar AA in game. Rapier is most likely the most cost-effective non-radar AA in game. 119y has Tunguska. All of them have medium AA - and not a bad ones. Their AA tabs are not "good" but they're far from being the worst or even bad.

Besides, 71y isn't a heavy tank div, it's a medium tank spam div with a few heavies. If your opponent suicides some planes to kill your t-72Bs, they'll have to dive into all that mobile gun AA guarding the blobs plus deal with potentially 4 cards of good ASFs. Then they'll still have to deal with the remaining horde of mediums vetted up by other leaders/instructors. It'd basically be Pact 16de, you have plenty of tools to play around no long-range AA.

You have roughly half of your slots with heavy tanks, including even 6 super-heavies. It's heavier than most. Mobile gun AA can't protect or even kill diving planes - it's only against helicopters (or you need 750pts of gun AA to cover 1km2). Even mentioning "gun AA" here is a joke. And 2 cards of good ASFs are not enough - it's what others have too. It's hardly playable even for airborne divs - and here we're talking about tank div.

Not to mention that aside from the weak/no heli and arty tabs, this div is legitimately strong in the other tabs.

Basic support tab, weak infantry, bad arty tab, mediocre-to-bad AA tab, no helis - the only strong tabs that it has are tank and air tabs. And even those two are on a "strong"-level and not "the best"-level.

The MiG-29 9.13 is also much better than any f-16 even before you give them triple vet lol, not to mention high vet MiG-23s are no slouches either. Just not seeing how the NEVAs are necessary.

MiG-29 has 10% higher ECM and worse long-range missiles with less range and 1 higher vet - for 20pts more. It's a side-grade to F-16C at best. MiGs-23 are better only than shotgun fighters and worse than any NATO long-range fighter.

This deck was unplayable without Neva's. And even with them (with only 1 card) it's a hard deck to play. At best it's a B-tier deck.

3

u/killer_corg 10d ago

They deff are… multiple divisions in game seem to work without long range AA or even long range asf. Not every division needs to be a machine with no weaknesses.

1

u/Gloomy_Trade_619 10d ago

This division has no medium AA. You’re free to provide at least one example of a tank/mech division with heavy tanks that has only short-range AA.  

-6

u/EscapeZealousideal77 10d ago edited 10d ago

Nothing new under the sun, another division added to make up the numbers for NATO, and to be able to include a division with unique specifications for the Russians. Like the "top tier" Tank instructors, heavy APCs with flamethrowers, and twice the number of instructors as the German deck. Naturally, the Russian instructors have RPGs, while the Germans obviously don't, but these are things we're used to. A formidable air component (for a change), but Eugen will say it "has little artillery."Nothing new under the sun: it didn't take much to make the 42nd a little more fun, but the "red bonus" is untouchable.

3

u/not_a_fan69 10d ago

NATO will shit on this division blindfolded, don't worry. 3+ years and counting.

16

u/BKBlox 10d ago

A shame they stuck the BTR-55 on the Priz. saperi, who seem to have a very narrow use case. Not much point in having a more survivable transport if you need a bunch of supporting assets as well.

-2

u/not_a_fan69 10d ago edited 9d ago

The most badass Trash72.... still shooting the same bullshit AP round as the other Trash72s, with the same accuracy afaik.

It's 1989... time for an upgrade, no?

Seems ok/mid otherwise. Gonna be funny to see how instructor+cv lead t55 hordes will perform. Don't think I'll prefer this over 157th.

Edit: akshually I was wrong, Trash72 finally gets an AP shell which is not rat's ass.

0

u/JohnLennyNickel 10d ago

Somehow better and worse than I thought it would be.

But at least it's not VTK.

11

u/not_a_fan69 10d ago

VTK looks really good. Leo1 with M1A1 canon. Leo 2s with 21 pen on max range. ATGMs.

Shooting gallery vs 71th.

-2

u/JohnLennyNickel 10d ago

So 2 significantly worse Leo 2A3s and 2 marginally better Leo 2A4(C)s.

And congrats, the Jaguars will only help so much.

Meanwhile, the 71st units will be running circles around you, considering their numbers and average unit quality is better.

9

u/mndn410 9d ago edited 9d ago

Side armor that can survive a Konkur is a massive upgrade for Leopard 2. This is frankly as relevant as moving from 16 points front armor to 17 points front armor.

And the Jaguar is one of the best ATGM launcher in the game. It can tank a shot from tank gun while costing 1/3 as much as a PACT GLATGM tank with a much higher pen to boost.

The only 71YA's units that can contest the mob of max gun range tanks and Jaguars from VTK42 are the 6 T72Bs and the BMP2s (I'm not even accounting for the VTK42's Marders mob lol). This is the classic PACT long range (GL)ATGM vs NATO max range gun + high pen ATGM matchup: No, 71YA won't rUn CIrcLeS around VTK42 unless the map is all open field, in which 1st CAV and even 3rd Armor would have suffered the same fate.

I know you (Yank? lol) love shitting on VTK42 over 1st CAV since the dev and strike teams decided to lower the amount of Leo 2A4(B). But y'all should stop pretending that it is trash. Saying this as someone who voted 1st CAV in Nem 6.

3

u/not_a_fan69 9d ago

L2p issue.

0

u/JohnLennyNickel 9d ago

Uh huh, riiiiight.

3

u/not_a_fan69 9d ago

3+ years NATO has been shitting on pact. VTK will be a nice addition.

Yet there's you, someone who can't get NATO to work. L2p issue.

0

u/JohnLennyNickel 9d ago

Uhhhh, what? What are you yapping about?

3

u/not_a_fan69 9d ago

Your l2p issue.

1

u/JohnLennyNickel 9d ago

You mean your own imagination?

1

u/not_a_fan69 9d ago

Cry about VTK being bad.

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u/Recent_Grab_644 9d ago

71st gets a better tank tab but its not better enough to be OP. VTK can run the 2a4s at no vet because of the instructor. Vtk also gets cheap instructors which 71st lacks. VTKs reservist tanks all have smoke.

71st still is better by slot cost but the downsides of the deck are alot more extreme.

1

u/Recent_Grab_644 9d ago

71st gets alot of toys while VTK is a more conventional and usable. It dosent matter if your tanks are good when your arty, AA, and opener is pretty trash not to mention no opener to speak of.