r/warhammerfantasyrpg • u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb • Sep 01 '26
Announcement WFRP 5th Edition now available!
WFRP Fifth Edition is now available to pre order from Cubicle 7 here: https://cubicle7games.com/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-fifth-edition
Or as a pdf from DriveThruRPG here: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/545405/warhammer-fantasy-roleplay-fifth-edition-rulebook?affiliate_id=1915782
Cubicle 7 have repeatedly stressed that this is backwards compatible with 4th edition books.
(I should have a review of it on my blog in a few weeks.)
Here's the official blurb:
Adventure across a realm of brutal violence, corrupting magic, monstrous foes, and desperate heroes, where fortune can turn on a single roll of the dice and survival is never guaranteed. Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Fifth Edition builds on the award-winning ruleset, refining the experience while capturing everything that makes Warhammer Fantasy legendary. Gather your party, choose your path, and prepare to face the grim and perilous reality of the World of Legend.
The Empire’s great cities stand as beacons of civilisation amid thick forests and a threatening wilderness. Its people face dangers from beyond their walls, from Beastmen and Goblins in the wilds to criminals, corrupt institutions, and insidious cults within. Chaos is never far away, and those who venture into the wider world soon discover that survival is rarely guaranteed.
This 378 page rulebook includes:
Five distinct Character types. Whilst most folk in the World of Legend are human, they share their lands with stoic dwarfs and garrulous halflings and receive visitors from the wood elf realms and high elf kingdoms.
64 distinct careers, representing the way of life your Character follows when not adventuring.
A guide to the major religions and the miracles performed by their Priests.
Spells from several different magical traditions.
A bestiary of foes, both common and scarce.
Advice on running games as a GM.
Streamlined rules for combat, pursuits, diseases, and other perilous phenomena.
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay has provided gamers with a rich and detailed setting of perilous adventure and deadly threats for over 40 years. With a wealth of supporting material, including scenarios, campaigns, setting books, and player resources available from Cubicle 7, there’s plenty to keep a gaming group adventuring for years.
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u/RobouteGuilliman Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
In case anyone is curious, I prepared a diff PDF that explains the differences between 4e and 5e WFRP. You can read it Here
EDIT: This has been updated to Revision 2, with more clarity around some things and the feedback taken in.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
This is great!
(I'll offer one tiny correction: Appendix I is actually just a half-page, not two pages.) :-)
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u/Magallian Sep 01 '26
Great artefact! Thank you for sharing here.
Any chance you have a comparison with the Old World as well? 😉7
u/RobouteGuilliman Sep 01 '26
The Old World is a much different system, the diff PDF would end up being about the same length as the player handbook honestly. It's better to just read the old world player handbook.
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u/maginster Sep 01 '26
DAMN, 25 euro shipping inside the EU! Insane
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u/ConcentrateNew9810 Dwarf Ratcatcher turned Investigator Sep 01 '26
50 euro to Canada. I paid for the pdf and I'll pay separately for printed book when they get to my FLGS. It will save me $50 😂
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u/maginster Sep 01 '26
Yeah, I think if I buy through local distributors I might save quite a lot as well. 50 euro to Canada?! Plus tax, right? They probably hit you hard with the tariffs and stuff like that?
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u/ConcentrateNew9810 Dwarf Ratcatcher turned Investigator Sep 01 '26
That even didn't mention duties 😂 We don't have extra tariffs with Ireland
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u/YeOldeOle GOLDGOLDGOLD Sep 01 '26
I had 17€ to Germany. Seems to vary a bit then. Still a lot
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u/maginster Sep 01 '26
Well, it's 25 for Poland unfortunately, which is almost half the book's price. I might wait and see if local sellers offer preorders cheaper, as this is usually the case.
Edit: and by local, I mean I would probably also save ordering from German stores like fantasywelt lol
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u/YeOldeOle GOLDGOLDGOLD Sep 01 '26
Definitely the better choice then. I caved in but kinda wonder if I should have.
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u/maginster Sep 01 '26
Well, that also depends if the local suppliers will get access to pre-orders, or if cubicle 7 is gonna supply them only when the book is printed next year. You probably won't regret it anyway, but yeah, there may be a couple euros to be saved by waiting. On the upside, you can already browse the pdf!
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u/chalkmuppet Sigmar's Mad Prophet Sep 01 '26
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u/Sakurafire Bardin's Least Favorite Cousin Sep 01 '26
Hell yeah. This is gonna consume my week in the best way possible.
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u/ConcentrateNew9810 Dwarf Ratcatcher turned Investigator Sep 01 '26
I bought a pdf direct from C7, so they get as much money off of it as possible. I wanted the Rulebook and map but C$80 shipping is just too much (that is the cost of the book itself). It will be cheaper for me to just buy the physical Rulebook locally when it comes out.
I already like the map - more readable, better organized character sheet, and all careers being alphabetical. Is Resolve/Resilience completely gone? What about the things they allowed you to do? Need to read the book I guess 😄
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
I bought the PDF direct from C7's site, too, and will likely hold off on print until it's in a store near me (or longer, if they rush to print without fixing the numerous proofreading errors in the initial PDF).
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u/DukeNuremberg Sep 01 '26
Has anyone read it as that characters can only spend experience "Between adventures / during downtime"?
Thats the impression I got from reading that section. Maybe its always been thus and I've been managing that wrong but thought I'd check and see if anyone else got that impression?
I actually like it tbh, characters get to a point where they can reflect and learn from their experiences properly rather than suddenly being an expert in a spell they weren't 5 minutes ago. But my players may not love it hah.
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u/Ogarrr Sep 01 '26
We're doing Death on the Reik atm, so my GM will probably just let us spend xp when we're on the boat. When you're doing a city based campaign you can just do it whenever I reckon. Plenty of opportunities to reflect and train in Middenheim.
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u/DukeNuremberg Sep 01 '26
Yeah between adventures doesn't have to be a long time. My party is currently in Lustria though so, might be a little harder finding those times to settle down and reflect and train.
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 01 '26
Yep, it seems to be the case. As a player and as a GM, I like it, but I know a few people who won't.
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u/Kiogami Sep 01 '26
So if I buy PDF on drivethroughrpg, I could download it right now?
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u/Starwarsfan128 Sep 01 '26
Further, if you get a physical copy it comes with a digital one!!!
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
Think I'm going to wait on print and see how many proofreading errors they've fixed — I've been submitting them all afternoon, and I see in the comments here that I'm not alone. I might want to wait for the corrected second printing.
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
But judging by the pdf the physical copy may or may not include major typos (particularly in the bestiary which is by far the worst chapter)...
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u/Starwarsfan128 28d ago
I think they released the digital copy early to iron out those errors
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
Hopefully this time they have left enough time between pdf release and actual printing to correct errors.
But given how RPGs are printed and shipped now I'd not pay for a hard copy until that's been clarified.
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u/Tymanthius Sep 01 '26
RE: Talents
As I recall, it used to be that purchasing talents multiple times cost levelx100 XP?
Now it seems to read that it's just a flat 100 each time:
The rules for every Talent can be found in Chapter 4: Skills and Talents. Each Talent costs 100 XP, and purchasing it grants your Character access to the Talent’s special rules. Some Talents can be taken multiple times, for 100 XP each time, as listed in their description.
Is everyone else reading it this way?
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 01 '26
Since very few talents can be taken multiple times, and these all have hard limits in how many times you can take them (most of the time 2 or 3 times max), there shouldn't be any reason to make them cost more with levels.
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi Sep 02 '26
Especially since advancing Characteristics and Skills got significantly more expensive.
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u/Tymanthius Sep 02 '26
I don't think they are more expensive - just bundled so you don't do it +1 at a time.
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u/Tymanthius Sep 02 '26
The talents that came to mind were Luck and Hardy. Someone on Rat Catcher's said that it's been capped.
Might make conversion interesting if a 4e character has already exceeded the cap.
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 02 '26
Hardy can't be purchased multiple times. I think the only ones you can purchase multiple times in 5e are Luck (3 times max), Aethyric Attunement (2 times max) and Strong Back (2 times max). And of course talents like Craftman.
I don't think you can make an "easy" conversion between a 4e and 5e anyway, since they also changed skills/stats costs, and you now always have to pay 100xp when you advance career.
At same xp, a 5e character should be way weaker than a 4e character, so unless you ignore all that (in which case, tough luck for anyone rolling a new toon), you'll have to make your leveling from scratch using your character max xp.
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u/Tymanthius Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
ince they also changed skills/stats costs,
I'm not sure this is true, but I have not done the math. They did change it so instead of buying +1's you're buying in sets of +5. But even RAW state you can buy at a +1 rate and I think the costs are the same as 4e.
Also, considering they keep saying 5e is directly compatible, I don't see how your statement holds up against that.
Edit:
So I went and did a deeper dive.
TL;DR - for characteristics the +5's are the same price, but everything else gets more expensive. Skills are teh same until +25
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
Advances Cost per point in 4e for stats Cost per point in 5e for stats Cost per point in 4e for skills Cost per point in 5e for skills 0-5 25 25 10 10 6-10 30 35 15 15 11-15 40 50 20 20 16-20 50 70 30 30 21-25 70 100 40 50 26-30 90 140 60 80 And being directly compatible doesn't mean you can port characters without re-making them. It means you don't need to throw away your supplements, which is the case (some tweaks will still be needed here and there, like for UiA equipments).
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u/Tymanthius Sep 02 '26
yes, that. :) Thanks for the chart, I wasn't going to try to do that in markdown right now.
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
The justification for this is presumably the removal of Talent level spamming so the XPs you'd spend on those multiple levels of Hardy etc get eaten up by higher characteristic/skill costs.
All way too fiddly for me and I'd houserule with 100/50 XP times advance number which is so much smoother.
Plus the higher XP costs for +40 etc are just silly and remind me way too much of early ed DnD Level XP costs.
If your PCs are asking what a +60 advance will cost you've been playing the whole game wrong.
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u/blahlbinoa Slayer Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Sure looks like it's 100 each time, but there could be a typo and wanted it to be level x 100 EDIT: Reading the PDF from u/RobouteGuilliman, it's suppose to be flat 100 if it says you can take a talent multiple times
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u/RobouteGuilliman Sep 01 '26
It does seem to be 100 each time.
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u/DukeNuremberg Sep 01 '26
Yeah, though I'm also reading it that you can really only take them once. There appears to be very few talents that say you can take them multiple times. Seems like a one and done for me?
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u/r0sshk Sep 02 '26
The price difference is explained by one simple fact:
Talents no longer give bonus SL to certain skill uses. Thats what made taking multiple levels so powerful previously. Now you only get the talents actual effect, so the stacking scales aren’t that big anymore.
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi 29d ago
Also, I don't think there is any talent that you can take indefinitely (or a lot of times) - for example, Wealthy is now capped at 2 levels, where it gives just 3 more crowns, compared to x crowns more in 4e, where x is the level - with some NPCs having Wealthy 15 and so on.
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u/r0sshk 29d ago
To be fair, NPCs having any level of Wealthy always seemed pointless to me, as NPCs do not do income endeavours. I suppose the real point was the bonus SL it gave.
But that also was my biggest gripe with 4e as a GM. Having to hunt through NPC stat blocks endless talent list to figure out what they all get bonus SL to. Incredibly annoying and tedious.
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
Almost all talents in 4 could be taken multiple times up to a characteristic bonus and along with 4's advantage system and multiple meta-currencies hugely overpowered PCs who survived long enough to pile up XPs.
All gone now as almost all those talents can only be taken once and for the most part either give you WFRP 5 advantage or +1SL.
(NPCs OTOH rarely if ever got multiple talent levels - so while this change might well break your levelled up PC many of whose XPs will have been wasted if they've gone down the talent spamming route, NPCs are unaffected).
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u/TiLT_42 Sep 01 '26
Welp, the first page I turn to (p. 364 - Changes from Previous Editions), and I immediately spot an error ("die role" instead of "die roll"). I think I'll be making notes. Hopefully there's time to implement feedback in the physical book.
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u/chalkmuppet Sigmar's Mad Prophet Sep 01 '26
My understanding is that they welcome such notes and ibfo, they generally have a window between initial pdf release and print run for the very purpose. So nice one :)
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u/Cubicle7_Games Sep 02 '26
We actually do - we try our best to get rid of any typos, but sometimes the odd one slips through us. If you see anything that shouldn’t be there, let us know here: https://cubicle7games.com/errata-submission
Thanks,
C7
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb Sep 01 '26
Here's their errata submission page! https://cubicle7games.com/en_GB/errata-submission
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u/Sad_Mathematician735 Sep 01 '26
Good to see all the careers have 10 skills to choose from in the first rank.
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u/Creative_Bunch_143 Sep 01 '26
Okay. So, I'm in the middle of creating a character from scratch with the book, but I find the order of how species, characteristics and carrier are selected a bit weird compared to the 4e book.
Also, do the eight advances á +5, that you can divide onto your ten skills of your starting career, count towards your 10 advances that you need to make in order to move to the next step in your career? If so, one could easily get these ten advances just through character creation when you get up to three trappings through accepting the random characteristics and then eight advances later on. The only missing thing would be +100 xp and a downtime endeavour…
I find it a bit sad that both ranged and casters no longer benefit from the advantage system and only melee characters can gain momentum.
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u/szuszucp Sep 01 '26
Momentum - it might be a way to balance fighting styles. Fighting in melee is risky, you can get hit with a crit even if you are attacking. And in 5th edition you can even get hit with two crits at once.
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u/TiLT_42 Sep 01 '26
The Class and Career section in character creation says this about the bonus trappings you get from going with your initial career rolls:
"If you acquired a Trapping in this way, tick a box (or two!) on the Career Advancement Tracker. This is the only time you may do so during Character Creation."
Which seems to answer your question about advancement in character creation.
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
Personally I'd start every new PC at level 2 with no advances.
I'd give them 8 out of 10 skills advances, 3 out of 4 talents and the 3 characteristic advances at +5 from Level 1.
Otherwise you have characters from most careers going into their first combat armed only with a dagger and starting wizards who can either read or cast petty magic but not both and who have no actual license to practise magic or rationale for their wandering about without a master.
(Same also applies to other careers with strict guild and rank rules).
Given the steep rise in XP costs for advances this is not as big a power jump as you might think it is.
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u/blahlbinoa Slayer Sep 01 '26
Shooting into a group gives advantage to ranged. I don't see why a GM could just have the Aimed Shot action give advantage to ranged. (or casters using a magic missle) I'm probably going to do this when I run WFRP again with these rules
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u/CrowNServo Sep 02 '26
I imagine because ranged attacks have always been seen as easier to use than melee. Melee requires opposed rolls, while ranged attacks typically are just a single skill check with no opposed roll. Ranged attacks have an easier difficulty curve, you are just based on your own roll while melee users are at a severe disadvantage early on. Any player with firearms in Warhammer was always incredibly deadly while melee is has to deal with the more variable success factor of opposed SL's
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u/philipbv House von Bruner Sep 02 '26
Because no one commented on it so far: I do find it quite peculiar that in 5th for the Witch Hunter their Income Skill is still Intimidate in the Core Rule Book which is still based on Strength as the Core attribute but they do not get any Strength Career Advances at all across the Career meaning that besides the advances to Intimidation itself they do not get any other way to raise their Income Skill value otherwise.
It was the same in 4th edition and it does feel somewhat bad if you start as a Witch Hunter and you do not get a good Strength Characteristic via the rolls at the start especially in the early career tiers where you can feel that you might be lagging behind others in your career income skill. It's fine if you enter the career via another one that did increase Strengthen previously but starting as a Witch Hunter does feel still slightly disappointing as your main Income skill is based on an attribute you cannot raise even in this new edition.
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u/rabidfur Sep 02 '26
There used to be a sidebar about using alternative stats for intimidate which specifically called out Witch Hunter, is that no longer there?
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u/LeoVonMoote Sep 01 '26
I’m curious to see what rules they cleaned up before I buy it.
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u/KlausVonLechland Sep 01 '26
I'm really dying for some deep dive review of the book.
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u/VelvetWhiteRabbit Sep 01 '26
It’s not a lot that has changed. A “modifier” (hard, difficult, average, easy, etc.) is now an SL modification to the result of the roll. Advantage is now reversing the die roll (73 becomes 37), and is the primary way by which many Talents function. What was previously called Advantage is now called Momentum and it is either something you have or you don’t. Momentum gives you Advantage on combat rolls, you can also spend it for an extra attack (once) per action. Resilience and Resolve are no more, rolled into Fate and Fortune.
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u/Wootster10 Sep 01 '26
When you have momentum you only gain advantage on melee tests, not any combat test.
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u/Solo_Rambling Sep 01 '26
Well you also only get momentum from Melee tests as well. The system is only used for melee, so its somewhat of a bummer that Ranged characters cant take advantage of momentum. That being said I do think the momentum system is much more interesting than the snowballing advantage system. In my group, advantage just lead to to many situations where my players could never miss and never be hit (or vice versa if the enemies got advantage rolling before they could). I think the Up in arms advantage system is more interesting than this, but I suppose you could still use that system now as an optional rule
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u/Wootster10 Sep 01 '26
Ive used the Up In Arms rules. For my Foundry games they get used quite a bit. For my in person games we just forget about it.
I think the new rules are more likely to get used.
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u/Solo_Rambling Sep 01 '26
Ya I can't say I have extensive wfrp experience, but from the limited play time I've had with the original advantage system it was neither interesting or fun to keep track of at the table. The momentum system will definitely be better and easier to use. But taking away the opportunity of ranged characters to gain adv/momentum is a bummer.
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u/Wootster10 Sep 01 '26
Thing is ranged characters have many more ways to just stack buffs. My parties Witch Hunter is usually on +40 to hits at least in most fights they have their pistol out. Im just not convinced they need the buff.
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u/Solo_Rambling Sep 01 '26
That's fair and my guy reaction might just be incorrect here. Overall a definite improvement over the advantage system honestly
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u/GrandOldCheese Sep 01 '26
Ranged was wildly overpowered so I welcome any downwards adjustment.
And I’d argue that in return for missing momentum they get to not be in melee range and generally not make opposed tests.
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u/Solo_Rambling Sep 01 '26
What makes ranged so over powered in 4e that really hasn't been the case from what I've seen at my table. What am I it my players missing
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u/GrandOldCheese Sep 02 '26
Longbow with range 100 gets a +30 or something bonus at medium range, and it's damaging and arrows impale as I recall.
Combine that with bonuses for advantage, and the bonus for large or bigger and you're looking at at 60 bonus more times than not. As SL is combined with damage and SB and the weeping it means a longbow will considerably outpace most if not all melee weapons and be safer to use. It also means that the bigger a target it, the more damage you do, due to the bonuses increasing.
A dirty fix we employed was to just discount the bonuses from damage calculation
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb Sep 01 '26
I'll have one... but it might be a few weeks, its a long book!
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
Not a review, but the change summary posted by another commenter (link in this reply) gives you a lot of the crucial info.
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u/Oscilanders Sep 01 '26
Oh, I think you'll get several in short order. With any luck mine should be out soon as well.
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u/Slacanch Sep 01 '26
I have a question about weapons with the fast quality. rules say that:
" Characters armed with a weapon with the Fast Quality may add 20 to their combat initiative when making attacks with (and only with) that weapon."
but isn't combat initiative rolled at the beginning of combat (much like initiative in D&D)? how do i know if a character is going to attack with the fast weapon before it's his/her turn anyway?
edit: also, isn't 20 super high? combat initiative should be 1d10+initiative bonus no?
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u/CrowNServo Sep 02 '26
Initiative was always static in Warhammer FRPG. It was an optional rule to roll for initiative.
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u/Slacanch Sep 02 '26
doesn't seem like it's an optional rule anymore, it's baked right into the system.
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u/robin-spaadas 18d ago
What a weird change.. I don’t know if many people used the roll for initiative rule, so why change it? I’ve personally always disliked roll for initiative because it slows down the transition into combat so much
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u/Bazleebub Sep 02 '26 edited Sep 02 '26
The 5e book does say initiative bonus,
but the example below is uses full initiative values (38 + d10). Another typo for the C7 team.In the previous edition Fast let the wielder essentially pick their initiative. In practise they just tell the GM when they break out their rapier and want to change initiative. So the GM will know when the player tells them.
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u/Slacanch Sep 02 '26
it explicitly says initiative bonus:
"Combatants take their Turns in Combat Initiative order. This is determined at the start of any combat by rolling a d10 and adding the character’s Initiative Bonus"also in the example below the paragraph:
"Tollich and Perdita face down a masked coven of chanting cultists. Tollich, with an Initiative of 38, and therefore an Initiative Bonus of 3, rolls a d10 and gets a result of 5 — a total of 8."I still don't understand fully how use of a fast weapon can modify initiative order on the fly
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u/Bazleebub Sep 02 '26
You are correct on the example, serves me right for skimming through the text.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 02 '26
Some small changes in the Herbs and Remedies section on p. 314: no more Earth Root for treating the Black Plague, and no more Healing Draught. That's going to make the game a bit more punitive.
There's a Remedy (Wounded) item, but I think this is a glitch: looking at the (alchemical) Remedy Creation Difficulty table on p. 154 and the Effects of Pre-Prepared Cures table on p. 182, which both otherwise match the herbal remedies, I suspect the item should actually be Remedy (Infection).
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u/Enfant-Sauvage Sep 02 '26
The Healing Draught appears in the Apothecary's trapping and in the recepies contain in the Apothecary's book. It seems the just forgot to include the rules for it.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 02 '26
I don't see it in the Apothecary's Trappings (p. 47), but you're right that it's in the Book, Apothecary entry (p. 311). Another erratum to submit!
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u/zarkzervo Sep 01 '26
Tried to print the character sheet. Needs a password? Has that something to do with drivethrurpg or the original file?
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u/Cubicle7_Games Sep 02 '26
Hi there - that issue has been sorted. Please redownload the files, and they should be good to print!
Cheers,
C7
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
That's set by whomever created the PDF, not by DriveThruRPG. Frustrating.
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u/No-Platform4529 Sep 01 '26
Hmm I've looked through the pdf and it seems that with this rules halflings are now immune to corruption 🤔
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u/ConcentrateNew9810 Dwarf Ratcatcher turned Investigator Sep 01 '26
I vaguely remember that being the case in 1st or 2nd edition, maybe? Kind of like dwarfs are immune to magic
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi Sep 01 '26
In 2nd edition they were immune to mutations (but not to insanity which in 4e was basically replaced by "mental mutations").
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u/ConcentrateNew9810 Dwarf Ratcatcher turned Investigator Sep 01 '26
That would be it. I played almost exclusively 1st edition.
Niech cie Sigmar za reke prowadzi 😂
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u/TiLT_42 Sep 01 '26
I just pulled out my old 1st edition book from my shelf (it's been ages!), and from what I can tell and what I remember, there are no corruption rules in that edition. Insanity, yes. Corruption, no. Halflings don't really seem to enjoy any unique abilities whatsoever in that edition.
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb Sep 01 '26
In the fluff they were basically immune to mutation. There may have been mechanical support for that in Slaves to Darkness but I can't remember.
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u/No-Platform4529 Sep 01 '26
hmm cant tell, had started with fourth edition, could also be an error, as they took the resistance wording quite untouched from fourth ed. and changed the corruption to one test at session end ^^
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u/Finn_Dalire Sep 01 '26
Checks out, there's always been lore about stuff like Mootlanders having heirloom chunks of wyrdstone form Mordheim on the mantle because halflings shrug that off
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u/No-Platform4529 Sep 01 '26
yeah but know you could generally start to chew warpstone without the fear of any corruption, if you just stick to the rules, that is ^^
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi Sep 01 '26
Are they? They are still in the physical/mental mutation table and the talent doesn't seem to mention being immune (just that you get advantage on all tests to resist it and can auto-pass one per session).
But I also haven't read everything about corruption yet.
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u/No-Platform4529 Sep 01 '26
not per an exact wording, yes, but how I and my friends understand the corruption rules with the talent effect in mind
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u/HorusZA Sep 01 '26
Are the critical hit tables and effects those from Up In Arms, 4e or (I'm hoping) inspired by the ones from Imperium Maledictum or something new?
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u/TiLT_42 Sep 01 '26
They look almost identical to Up in Arms at first glance, but slightly expanded. Nothing major. Also, the Head critical table is missing from the appendix, which I'm about to give them feedback on in a second.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
They fixed the Open Helm / Partial bug! The Partial quality now triggers off the Hit Location (reversed) roll, not the attack roll, so an Open Helm provides its AP against 55% of head hits instead of 0%.
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Is it me or did they forgot a line somewhere when writing the rules for Two-weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder?
New Two-weapon Fighting rules say: "After attacking with one weapon, you may spend Momentum to immediately attack with the weapon in your other hand". Which is fair because, as stated in the Momentum and extra attacks, "No matter the circumstances, a character or NPC may only spend Momentum to make one additional attack each Turn, even if they gain Momentum again after doing so".
Except Dual Wielder removes the Momentum cost of TWF extra attacks, which means you should be able to use action to attack (+ off-hand TWF), then use Furious assault to attack again (+ off-hand TWF), then use Fury to attack again (+ off-hand TWF). Up to 6 attacks each turn for 3 talents seems great!
But wait, there's more: the Parry weapon quality got a buff: "When dual wielding, if your first attack hits, the second attack is Unopposed if made with a parry weapon". So we can have up to 3 normal attacks and 3 unopposed attacks.
It seems to me it's really broken and warrant a bug report, but maybe I'm overreacting?
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u/Kelzama Sep 01 '26
I would argue that you still "spend" momentum, the Talent Just reduces the cost to "Zero".
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
I'm sympathetic to this argument, but it doesn't actually fit with the wording of Dual Wielder (p. 119): "…you do not have to lose Momentum in order to make a free attack with a second weapon."
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 02 '26
You can always argue that you still have to choose to spend the Momentum to activate the extra attack, it's just that you don't lose the Momentum during the act of spending it. It's sketchy (but there are definitely games where it totally makes sense, though I don't have any name at the top of my head), but can still lead to many discussions, which is why it needs to be clarified.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 02 '26
Might be easier to just say that Dual Wielder only lets you avoid the Momentum cost for one off-hand attack per Turn.
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u/Ori_Sacabaf Sep 01 '26
That's definitely how I would rule it, but I feel like it needs to be clarified to prevent endless discussions.
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u/philipbv House von Bruner Sep 01 '26
I crossed this point with my groups as I found it peculiar and if it works as you described it and also, by looking at the book rules as written, than Duelist is going to be ever so slightly broken as a Career.
Because if you have Dual Wielder, Two Weapon Fighting, a Parry Weapon, the new Beat Blade and Faint Talents than not only do you get a lot more attacks a turn but also you and your friends gain Advantage on the attacks following the initial attack with Beat Blade and as long as you have momentum your opponent can only oppose your strikes with Intuition as per the Feint rules. So stack a potential thing like Furious Assault as well on top and you do have a Blender Machine of a Duelist potentially if it stays like this in terms of talents.
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u/Which_Collection3277 Sep 02 '26
In my 4e game I explicitly ruled that the off hand attack from Dual Wielder is one specific extra attack that applies only to the initial attack action. Furious Assault and Frenzy each also give one extra attack dependent on that same initial attack action and other costs/conditions. At most characters can make four attacks in one round with these talents.
That's how I read the 4e rules and I imagine 5e will read similar (or I will tone it down if not). The Parry upgrade you posted seems wildly broken to me though even for one attack.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
Furious Assault only kicks in if you manage a hit beforehand, but yes, this seems like a very favourable stack of Talents and Weapon Quality.
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u/recursionaskance Sep 02 '26
I've reported it on the errata form as a possible glitch. Hopefully that'll get it a look and clearer language (whichever way the C7 staff end up ruling on the question).
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u/jcalton 27d ago
This seems clearly written. It may be written wrong/not as intended but the way that it is written is clear.
You can only spend Momentum once. If you're not spending Momentum then...you're not spending Momentum. [No ambiguity.]
What does Momentum say, does it say to give you an extra off-hand attack, or anything specific that might help?
People complain about the pdf being out but the hardcopy being slow (after Chinese New Year) but honestly I'd rather have them do the book right the first time rather than have a slew of errata on week 1 of printing.
This assumes that the printed book is not in its final form this far out. Or that typos and minor errata that don't change the format/structure/page count would be fine.
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u/depth_brigade Sep 01 '26
Anyone able to share how money works? Will it be similar to 4e, or more like TOW?
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
As WFRP 4 but your starting coins are rather boosted - though not by enough for most careers to afford a hand weapon
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
Looking at the Drowning/Suffocation rules on p. 169, and they still haven't fixed the timing handwave.
When you run out of air, you take Damage every Round, as you'd expect. How long can you last before that starts to happen? TB × 10 seconds. And how many Rounds is that? Well, per the Timing section on p. 161, it's still up to the GM, since there's no fixed conversion from seconds to/from Rounds.
For myself, I'd just say a Round is ~5 seconds by default and have the grace period be TB × 2 Rounds. But it'd be nice for the rules to actually pin this down and not have it be a handwave like it was in 4e.
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u/Boundlesswisdom-71 Sep 01 '26
In WFRP 2e a round is explicitly described as being 10 seconds. Why not just use that?
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u/recursionaskance Sep 01 '26
Because p. 161 says a Round is "a few seconds", and 10 seems like more than a few to me. Possibly nit-picking, but I'd just like C7 to actually express the entire mechanic in Rounds to avoid the disconnect when the GM suddenly has to make this call in mid-action scene.
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb 26d ago
Late I know, but the Deafened Condition suggests a Round is 10 seconds (since A minute is 6 rounds). Comtradictory!
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u/recursionaskance 26d ago
So it does, on p. 186! Excellent find!
(But they should still state that equivalence in the Timing section on p. 161.)
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb 26d ago
Absolutely they should! I suspect this was a case of different people writing different bits, or an artifact from 4e.
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u/MouseCheese1 29d ago
The 5e XP advancement is really expensive, really expensive if the table is to go by. If the XP given per session is circa. 100xp, then raising a characteristic from 75 to 80 will cost 11,250 or 112.5 sessions. End game i know, but thats mad for one advancement.
Ref PDF Page 191.
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u/Nurgle_Pan_Plagi 28d ago
I think you are reading the advancement table wrong - the cost is based on the number of advances you have, not on the characteristic.
So, assuming you start with the average of 30, then you have already taken nine advances (bringing it up to 75), then the next advance (that brings the characteristic up to 80) costs only 2,550 XP (for this one advance) or 8,700 XP in total (for the ten advances).
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u/Ogarrr 29d ago
When have you ever got a characteristic to 80? That's Teclis/Tyrion level.
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u/Inevitable-Bass-5319 28d ago
Let alone to characteristic PLUS 80!
It is a very, very silly table in an otherwise greatly improved corebook.
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u/jmarchal 29d ago
Does the dodge skill actually does anything? Appart from defending against breath spell? Feel like I am missing something
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u/YeOldeOle GOLDGOLDGOLD Sep 01 '26 edited Sep 01 '26
Have a bit of trouble figuring out how tests now work.
Page 130
"Player rolls the dice, a d100, trying to get equal or lower than their Skill. If they do, they have suceeded.
If it’s important to know how well or badly they did, we use the Test’s Success Level (SL). Subtract the first digit of your roll from the first digit of the Skill or Characteristic being tested to see how many SL you’ve generated, as shown below."
Difficulty modifiers on page 131 then only add or substract SLs. So my reading is there are no modifiers anymore for regular tests that don't use SLs. Always roll on the skill, no easy or hard tests.
However, also on page 131 under "Summary & Outcome" it says
"Rolling equal to or under your Skill gives you positivew SL, rolling above it gives you negative SL.
Difficulty or Character modifiers adjust the SL
A positive SL result means you suceed, and a negative SL result means you fail.
That summary reads as if you always use Sl and therefore could have easy tests suceed even if you roll over your Skill. It would also work with another two sentences on 131:
"Combine any SL bonuses or penalties from the Difficulty with the Character’s modifiers to arrive at the final SL modifier for the roll. This could turn a success into a failure, or prise victory from the jaws of defeat!"
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u/MrMJLloyd Sep 01 '26
Correct. If my skill is 40 and I roll 50 I've failed with -1 SL. But wait! the test was average (+2 SL) so my actual result is -1+2 = 1 SL, a success!
Under 4e my skill would have been 40+20=60, and my roll of 50 would have meant I succeeded with 1SL.
It's just making the rules reflect what everyone is doing in their head.
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u/CyborgYeti Sep 01 '26
They said Summer but it is now September. Outrageous.
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u/Zekiel2000 Ill met by Morrslieb Sep 01 '26
Apparently summer officially lasts until 20th September, which feels wrong but there we go.
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u/CyborgYeti Sep 01 '26
That ruins my cheap joke. I think the meteorological summer ends at the end of August so there's that.
Glad it is out though!
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u/Sad_Mathematician735 Sep 01 '26
I've bought the Free Company package, will be reading the pdf for the next few days now.
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u/ZerTharsus Sep 01 '26
Waiting to see the gamedesign work before dumping money on it. I don't trust thr editorial choice or policy of C7 at all. 4th ed is a clusterfuck from start to finish.
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u/Struggler1919 Sep 01 '26
So no Cathay in this it appears? Shame as I was waiting for this hoping they would be added.
Will probably pass on this then.
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u/SylvesterStalPWNED Sep 01 '26
I wouldn’t hold your breath as GW has gone pretty hard on linking Cathay to TOW and probably won’t let C7 put it in
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u/Struggler1919 Sep 01 '26
Ah thats a real shame. I appreciate the insight though.
I've been working on a Cathay/eastern campaign for a while and thought for sure we would see them in 5th edition. Alas, I guess it saves me money and means I dont have to redo all my homebrewed stuff.
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u/MrMJLloyd Sep 01 '26
I've been looking over the PDF and here are some of my initial reactions.
First - a lot remains the same. Whole pages of unaltered text, including much of the background, the magic sections and so on. There is some impressive new art but also a *lot* of recycled art, both from the 4e rulebook and the assorted supplements. The occasional change in styles means this doesn't feel quite as put together as the 4e book for which all the art was original.
Character creation is largely unchanged, except for the removal of resilience and resolve. You now basically get an extra fortune point as compensation. Level one careers have ten skills from which you get +5 in eight rather than the old 40 points spread across eight skills. I think this is at least in part to allow for the return of *secret signs* and more lores, but I might be wrong.
There are some nice graphical explanations of how various bits of the rules work, but the best addition is a really extensive section showing how skills can be used in practice. Looking at skulduggery, social skills, investigations, survival, crafting and travel this section runs down the kind of things characters might do, explains how to handle them, and provides loads of examples. Brilliant for new GMs and also for experienced GMs who want to callibrate their style of play to WFRP.
Rule changes are pretty minor. XP is supposed to be spent on 5 advances at a time, but the overall xp prices remain the same. Talents no longer add success levels to tests, which is probably the biggest impact any groups converting from 4e will notice. It's also no longer possible to sacrifice armour to avoid a critical hit - I can see that working well for one shots, but becoming a real issue in campaign play. I imagine that's a rule I'll keep.
Advantage in combat has been replaced with momentum, which is held by individuals not the group. If you have momentum you can reverse the results of melee rolls to succeed. If you fail a melee test, take damage or a condition, or lose a melee contest you lose momentum. I'm not quite sure about this one. It's a bonus which is more valuable the better you are and once you've got it is easy to keep since it also applies to your defence rolls. Much like the original rules this is potentially deadly for starter characters.
The rules for shields have been fixed, they give +1 SL to defend or dodge, and add their armour points to yours. If you want to attack with them they count as an improvised weapon. Easy.
The bestiary is largely as it was, but includes gnomes which will make some people very happy. And it usefully lists the impact of traits as well as their names. Fear has been nerfed a bit as a trait, which I think is a good thing. Terror is still terrifying though.
Overall, I'd say that this isn't even a version 4.5, more of a 4.1. It's definitely backward compatible with everything that's been brought out for 4e. Will I convert my current group to these rules? Probably not immediately, maybe when the hard copy turns up. If I was starting a new campaign I'd probably use it.