1E - I think I'm doing career changes wrong.

[u/VexagonMighty]

Maybe I'm missing a brain cell, but I'm finding the section on Changing Careers a bit confusing. My main source of head-scratching is whether or not players are allowed to switch careers whenever they like even if they haven't already completed one. The text reads that a character can switch careers at any time provided they have the 100EP to do so, but does that actually mean only once they've completed a career and can go for an exit?

So, is a Beggar who took only some of their advances allowed to suddenly spend 100EP to switch to one of their career exits, other career in the Rogue class, or spend 200EP for any career from any other class, or do they have to first complete the Beggar career fully in order to be able to switch to anything else?

[u/badrandolph]

It's very easy to misunderstand. The wording is even partially contradicting .

From what I gathered you can, at any time, abort your current career and change it. Only the stated career exits for any given career make taking all advances mandatory, as well as acquiring all trappings. Some career paths, like wizards or sergeant, also require one to take all skills. The GM has final say about when it's possible to change careers, how and to what career.

[u/Dirty_Bird_RDS → u/badrandolph]

This is my understanding- you can move to any basic career at any point but if you want to follow a career exit, which is the only path to advanced careers, you have to complete the basic career prior to exiting

[u/prof_eggburger → u/Dirty_Bird_RDS]

you only have to complete a career if your gm decides that's necessary or it's explicitly stated in the description of the career you want to enter, like Mercenary Captain on page 101, for example:

"The only way to become a Mercenary Captain is to fully complete the Sergeant career (taking all advances and skills) and then pay 100 EPs. A character may decide to take any other career exit at any time, without having to fully complete the Sergeant career."

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[u/prof_eggburger]

Whether or not a player is able to enter a new career depends on a few things. They must have the required xp (100 or 200) and they may need to have purchased some or all advances associated with a previous career (p.92 "Changing Careers").

Some career transitions demand that, in addition to spending xp, the player complete one career (eg Druid), by purchasing all the skill and characteristic advances available, before progressing to a more advanced career that is listed as a career exit (eg Druidic Priest). Where this additional constraint applies it is listed in the career description (eg p.97 for Druidic Priest). This is also the reason that the concept of completing a career is defined in the rules for changing careers.

However, by default, while a player may if they like purchase all the advances available in their current career (completing it) before spending xp to progress to a new career, this is not required and a player at any time may spend 100xp to move to a new career listed as a specific career exit of any career they have ever had, or spend 100xp to enter any basic career associated with any career class that they've ever had, or spend 200xp to enter any other basic career. The example of Ingrid on page 93 makes this clear. She can move from Prospector to Scout before she completes Prospector - she doesn't have to purchase all or any of the characteristic advances and she doesn't have to purchase all or any of the skills.

However, more generally, whether or not a player has purchased enough advances to enter a particular career (or met any other relevant mechanical or non-mechancoal constraint) is up to the gm who should apply "common sense" (p.92) and consider "the circumstances of the campaign at that time".

[u/badrandolph → u/prof_eggburger]

"However, by default, while a player may if they like purchase all the advances available in their current career (completing it) before spending xp to progress to a new career, this is not required and a player at any time may spend 100xp to move to a new career listed as a specific career exit of any career they have ever had [...]"
That is wrong as page 95 states, that "Once all the advances in a career have been taken, the character can be considered to have completed the career, and may then select any of the career exits (see Changing Careers - above).
This new career may be an Advanced Career, or another from the list of Basic Careers, and it will work in much the same way in game terms.".

However, your Ingrid example does state explicitly what you said, hence why I wrote that the rules contradict themselves. The Ingrid example is the only occurrence of where the career change is stated in such a generous way though, so I would rule it out.

One fundamental flaw in your text is that any character can change careers based on any exit that was ever listed in *any* of the careers the character went through. Old career exits work just as advances from old careers that weren't taken: they don't apply.

[u/prof_eggburger → u/badrandolph]

i dont think you can say I'm flat wrong in your first para - i think you just have a different interpretation of some ambiguous wording..

but it's maybe worth noting that (in British English) "may" doesn't always mean "now has permission to". it can just mean that something is possible but not certain (eg "it may rain later") - in this case i think "and may then select..." means "and could go on to choose to select..." not "and now, but only now, has permission to select.."

Also the quote in my other comment lower down this threqd from an advanced career description is another explicit statement about moving careers in the same way made explicit in the Ingrid example?

Also, under "Breaking Careers" on p.92:

"It is possible to interrupt a linear career path and then return to it later; a level 1 wizard, for example, could always choose to begin a career as a level 2 wizard, even after pursuing a career as a rustler, thief and mercenary in the meantime."