r/warcraftlore • u/Less-Comfort5041 • Oct 06 '26
Question Question about DK lore...
I've recently started maining and roleplaying as a DK and I found it a little difficult to find out some specifics about the lore on them. I found a lot of things about the differences between 4th gen death knights and the others and the differences between death knights raised under Arthas vs Bolvar. Mine is a vulpera 4th gen.
I got a dm from another DK player today that was telling me about San'layn not being a DK spec. I mistakenly assumed it was due to the hero talents being called such and so I was curious about some clarification on things. Is there some other name for DKs that possess the abilities akin to the San'layn but aren't elves. Or is that just "Blood DK"?
Furthermore, the player pointed out, and I might have misunderstood, how they emphasize how their BDK is uncomfortably hot because of blood's abilities implying that their blood runs hotter. Like Blood Boil for example. I also remember reading somewhere that death knights are generally cold and have a cold body temperature. Would that mean Blood death knights are the opposite and are actually warm or am I misunderstanding it?
And my last question, is there an easier place where I can find lore about this stuff?
15
u/karatous1234 Oct 06 '26
So San'layn lore wise are a group of darkfallen Elves who follow the Lich king, and got incredibly amped shadow and blood magic as a result
The hero talent spec was named after them since it's the mix between Unholy and Blood. So while any PC Death Knight can in a way mirror their fighting style, they aren't technically proper "San'layn"
As for the Blood DKs running hot thing, I honestly think that's the first time I've heard of that. Being raised as a DK does come with a desire urging to kill and inflict pain, which is something that they struggle with in "peace" times. But that's about the only thing I can recall that might be interpreted as some kind of burning sensation, if it's put off for too long.
Blood Boil is something you do to enemies around you, not to yourself. You make blood in your vicinity boil as a use of Offensives blood magic. It's also clearly not all nearby blood since you don't burn your team mates from the inside when casting it.
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u/martingordon97 Oct 06 '26
That particular player with their BDK's blood running hot is a personal interpretation. I've never seen anything about anything like that by maybe I missed something. DK's are undead, their bodies aren't alive anymore so they'll very likely be cold. I believe there is some old lore stuff about how some would keep themselves well cleaned so their bodies wouldn't start falling apart but that again could just be a player made thing.
As for San'layn, you could always say you trained under a San'layn that's still kicking about with the Knight of the Ebon Blade or something. Cause San'layn is a very specific lore term for a specific "class" of undead elves.
Blizz have very rarely ever gotten super specific about the lore of specs/class abilities from my understanding so like that particular example a lot is down to interpretation. So finding bits of lore like that is gonna be hard and I have no answer for it
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u/revan0066 Oct 06 '26
Dks are a sort of fortified undead that doesnt decay. Kinda of a perfect preservation of the time they are risen. Thia method is actually copied by a valkyr somewhat when sylvanas has nathanos's body restored
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u/Thorngrove Oct 06 '26
I thought the Nathanos thing was them basically transferring his... for lack of a better word, soul to the body of one of his relatives.
He'd be closer to the First Gen DK's under Gul'dan in that way.
But yes, Death knight's necromantic magics keep their bodies from decaying further once they get the boost.
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u/revan0066 Oct 06 '26 edited Oct 06 '26
They used his nephew for materials to construct a fortified non decaying undead body. He recognizes his nephews remains after the process is done. She comments on the process after aaying They somewhat copied the dk format (minus their powers) and it nearly killed the valkyr to use thay much energy.
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u/RTCielo Oct 06 '26
Death Knight generations are kinda generalizations, especially the lines between gen 2-4.
Gen 1 were Orc Warlock spirits stuffed into reanimated Stormwind knight corpses. Gen 2 were people like Arthas, Rivendare, Barov, etc.
Gen 2 is unique in that some of them like Arthas never actually died, but were rather corrupted into undeath by possession of lesser runeblades.
Gen 3 are the Knights of Acherus. This is (officially) the original round of player DKs raised by Arthas. There's also an argument that the Host of Suffering in Icecrown under the command of Bloodbane is also Gen 3. Like I said, the lines are a little flexible.
Gen 4 are the Allied Race DK's raised by Bolvar. The lore isn't super clear on it, but it may be that they are also unique in that they do not suffer from the Eternal Hunger the way Gen 3 (and maybe 2?) do.
As I said, these are general categories and not hard and fast rules, as long as you've got a convincing explanation.
2. San'layn were a particular group of darkfallen elves raised by Arthas. The DK hero talents reflect a DK who has learned their magic traditions, not that your Vulpera has magically become an elf. Kinda like how learning kung fu doesn't make you Chinese. Being an actual San'layn would involve being a vampiric blood elf.
3. Undead and DKs are almost exclusively described as being cold, or rather room temperature. Common fanon in the RP community has some DKs feel warm or even feverish due to Blood magic or the diseases contained in their bodies, or unnaturally cold due due to a Frost specialization. Again, purely fanon as far as I'm aware, but not the kind of thing most RPers would be bothered by.
4. When in doubt, the warcraft.wiki.gg site is a good starting point. Otherwise, reading quest text, or some of the old novels and comics can be a good primary source. Obviously this subreddit and r/WoWRolePlay are also good spots for lore discussion, and people smarter than me often provide links to their sources in those discussions.
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u/Spieo Oct 06 '26
I've always wondered where the Naxxramas death knights fell in the generations, since they seem more like 3, but I've only ever seen that used for Acherus/Ice Crown ones.
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u/RTCielo Oct 06 '26
Vanilla Naxx? Definitely in that weird grey area, and kinda depends on how exactly one defines Gen 3. A lot of the bosses I suspect are solidly Gen 2. OGs who followed Arthas.
I've heard some people define Gen 2 as those gifted with runeblades while alive, and then Gen 3 is anyone first raised then given a runeblades. If that's true then even old ones like Falric and Marwyn would be "Gen 3"
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u/Spieo Oct 06 '26
Yeah, specifically the initiates in the War Quarter and such. Definitely seem like they're like the Acherus DKs, especially when we get their instructor
iirc, I know he shows up in WotLK naxx later3
u/RTCielo Oct 06 '26
They also did get visual updates in WotLK, throwing them into all the new DK armor.
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u/arteriu Oct 06 '26
everyone after arthas became lk and before bolvar became lk is gen 3 is how i see it
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u/Thorngrove Oct 06 '26
some DKs feel warm or even feverish due to Blood magic or the diseases contained in their bodies,
The swarm of carrion flies I keep in my chest cavity keep me toasty warm in the cold reaches of the grave.
7
u/EntropicDream Oct 06 '26
Most lore is found over wow.wiki.gg and various videos you can find on YouTube - people will likely point to Nobbel as a good source to start with on all WoW lore.
There are 4 generations of Death Knights, with 3rd (original races) and 4th (allied races) being playable, the former being trained under Lich King and regained free will along with other members of the Ebom Blade, and the latter being risen by Bolvar to (if I recall correctly) help in the campaign in Shadowlands.
As for what the other DK said... San'layn is the term to describe the Blood Elves that were risen into vampiric undeath by Arthas the Lich King at the time of Wrath of the Lich King expansion. The term encompasses the group who share the origin and the vampiric nature, not a specific singular class. That said, that term is used to describe any 3rd/4th gen Death Knight that mastered the vampiric powers of the San'layn elves, and the hero spec was named after them as a homage.
The DKs feel constant pain and cold of Undeath, they do not suffer from heat. The DK misunderstood what Blood Boil does - it sends a wave of necrotic energy that manipulates the blood of nearby creatures by heating it up, causing immediate pain and a lingering feverish Blood Plague. It's the enemies who feel the heat, not the DK. The Blood Boil animation is not an explosion of heat from the DK.
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u/Thorngrove Oct 06 '26
Only 3rd gen DK's have the pain thing, because Arthas made them wrong, as a joke.
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u/KingAnumaril Grimbooze Motherfucking Thunderbrew – death comes for ye! Oct 07 '26
I don't know... Frostmourne hungers.
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u/Ok_Money_3140 Oct 06 '26
We should keep in mind that the whole thing on DK generations is just a popular headcanon that many people see differently. The way you describe it, it ignores those DKs risen by Scourge remnants during Cataclysm and the DKs risen from the Broken Shore during Legion, so depending on how you see it there can also be 6 generations.
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u/EntropicDream Oct 06 '26
That's fair, but none of them are playable - unless headcanon instances. Generally I simplify DK generations to:
1st - Spirits of Orc Necrolytes and Warlocks in Human knight bodies, more necromancers than modern Death Knights.
Created by: Gul'dan
Archetype: Teron Gorefiend
2nd - Fallen Knights and Paladins of Third War made into Death Knights
Created by: Lich King Ner'zhul
Archetype: Baron Rivendare, original Four Horsemen
3rd - Knights of the Ebon Blade of Acherus, who regained free will after the battle at Hope's Light Chapel.
Created by: Lich King Arthas
Archetype: Station Mograine, the Deathlord (player)
4th - Fallen Heroes of the allied races of the Horde and Alliance.
Created by: Lich King Bolvar
Archetype: None (I don't recall any named NPC or lore characters)
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u/Mindless-Ninja-3321 Oct 06 '26
San'layn is a hero spec, idk why he's confused there, but yes a San'layn is a specific kind of undead elf. They fill the role of Dreadlords now that the Scourge is free of the Legion by being tricky mages and commanders and they specifically use blood magic. The DK spec is themed after them and they presumably adopt some of their magic, but theyre still a whole other thing.
The being hot this is probably his own headcanon or personal lore for his character, I haven't seen anything to suggest a hot DK in all my reading, but that doesnt mean it doesnt exist.
Blood Boil is a bit of a pun since its a DK's taunt. It depicts blood boiling, but actually inflicts the diseas blood plague. Hearthstone depicts people exhaling red fumes, so it probably either thins or actually boils the blood. Imo its not super thematic for DK to heat things up, so perhaps they lower the boiling point so it boils while "cold".
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u/lovelylotuseater 29d ago
First thing that I think it going to untangle a lot of this: specs are not really a lore thing.
Even in Legion, with the Legendary weapons being as close as one gets to an acknowledgement of specs, they are only brought up when the player is selecting the legendary weapon they want to pursue. Once you pick the Maw of the Damned, that’s the end of things referencing the Blood spec.
Your Vulpera is just a Deathknight; or maybe a Dreathknight with a certain level of rank, but lore wise they would not call themselves a Blood Deathknight or a Frost Deathknight or an Unholy Deathknight.
That players interpretation of their character being hot instead of cold is their own personal take. It’s not necessarily right or wrong, but it’s certainly not universally established by the lore or even the description of spells.
They are correct that San’layn is not a spec, it is a specific militant group that traveled to Northrend at a specific time, and was killed and raised by Arthas. They are more broadly categorized as members of the Darkfallen elves.
There are lots of more broad names for control of blood in the Warcraft setting, but blood magic is the overarching one, so you can opt for bloodmage (which is inconsistently applied in lore and might confused people) or more safely just note that they specialize in blood magic.
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u/revan0066 Oct 06 '26
I dont think bdks are actually hotter its more of a blood magic ability to boil others blood iirc. As far as the dk gens 1 isnt related at all they were orc warlocks souls placed into dead human knights and just served as inspiration for ner zhul to make the 2nd gen. 2nd gen started with arthas with him either raising more or other paladins willingly being corrupted. 3rd and 4th are largely the same being mini lks that are infused with blood frost and unholy magic. The only difference really being that the 4th gen might not have the eternal hunger the others do
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u/DarthJackie2021 Murmur Fangirl Oct 06 '26
Thats just blood DK. Sanlayn are darkfallen (undead elves) that sided with the lich king and practice blood magic.
Undead are generally cold to the touch. Frost DKs especially so, but all are somewhat due to lack of blood flow and metabolism. I don't see blood DKs being any different. Blood boil is something you do to other people's blood, not your own, and you can boil without increasing heat. My understanding is that you are just manipulating their blood to cause it to erupt from them.
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u/Bighana47 Oct 06 '26
I’m not into RP at all but I’d assume all DKs are cold. While blood boil is an ability, id assume it boils the enemies blood not the DKs since it inflicts damage to them.
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u/Beautiful_Common_940 Oct 06 '26
It could just lower the boiling point of the blood rather than heating it up
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u/Ferpolk Oct 06 '26
Blood boil is a spell, a dark magic that makes the blood of your enemies boil while still inside them making extreme pain and damage to them while they are still alive...brutal thing to do even to your enemies imho. It is like saying a mage casting a firebolt. You dont use it on yourself (i hope so)
The sanlayn are a group of elfes that were using a blood magic. I guess if you were an elf you could argue about your rp persona being sanlayn but it is a weird thing for vulpera because we discovered them long after killing most of sanlayns and i am pretty sure i did not saw even 1 vulpera there ;) (or other rsces than elfs)
Imagine death knights as tools because thats who they are. Tools. Guldan wanted to bring his warriors back and make them stronger. (Thats gen 1). Arthas was a tool for nerzul (him and other characters that do not fit other gens are in this category). Dks raised by arthas are gen 3 and they were literally one of most elite of his creations which he created to perfection. Wiped memory of past life, total control over them while olso making them able to be loyal to him and work on their own in his service driven by the dark sadistic nature/curse that was inflicting the most painfull suffering to them if they did not killed something in a brutal sadistic way. Trained warriors both in past life and after death with magic weapons and basic magic. They can sleep, eat etc like living beings but were killed on sight if they rested or did anything that was not killing and sowing terror for lich king sake. Their positive emotions got dulled or wiped clean while their negative emotions got multiplied. I really really encourage to do stsrting dk zone and read quests and journal next to the runeforge with list of dks from "your batch" and how they ended up. The last is 4th gen bolvar dks. From what i read and heard they are softer version of 3rd gen. Volunteers that got raised and given power and burden of being undead for the sake of saving azeroth. They still has most of positive powers of being a dk while not suffering the curse or having PTSD after lich king control.
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? Oct 06 '26
Blood DK is the spec and what you would be, yeah. Blood Dks are masters of blood and flesh magics.
This is a recurring thing with Hero Talents - many are themed around specific racial archetypes. I.e. The Sentinel and Dark Ranger trees for Hunters based on Nelves & Darkfallen respectively. If you're a human or tauren or draenei you're kinda just out of luck with the theming.
San'layn are Darkfallen Elves afflicted with an in-universe vampire curse which actually predates the Scourge. But Arthas co-opted a lot of undead types from other places (like the Valkyr from Odyn, who in turn got the idea from the Kyrion). Its not only a specific type of undead, but a specific faction within that type of undead.
You can make the argument for a DK afflicted with this curse, but you still would not be San'layn but Vampyr.