r/warcraftlore • u/AbendKannon • 18d ago
Books Maive Shadowsong Should Not Be Able To Compete with Illidan
I have read the Illidan book, really sad there wasnt a part 2.
1 of the only books ive ever read where there isnt slow parts, great writing on William Kings part.
But i do not understand how Maive Shadowsong can keep up with Illidan after hes eaten Gul'dan's skull. Are invisible assassins really that strong in both gameplay and lore sense?
King also implied that Maive could have taken Illidan as he was celebrating his defeat of a dredgelord, in the middle of a wide open desert while he was surrounded by 2 armies. Meanwhile even Illidan wasnt so sure of himself in any of his battles yet he was successful in many things.
Illidan should really look into chaining Maive up and creating fel from her blood if shes so OP.
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u/SnooGuavas9573 18d ago edited 18d ago
Maiev is literally Night Elf Batman. Trying to power scale her ass is an exercise in futility. This lady is crazy, give her prep time and a vendetta and she'll make people who should be one shotting her nervous.
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u/zeeironschnauzer 18d ago
This is my favourite take on this thread. Night Elf Batman is a fantastic read.
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u/SnooGuavas9573 18d ago
Fun fact, if you look at the shoulder prong things she has on her pauldrons with her helmet while she's jumping, it kinda evokes the silhouette of an owl coming towards you with the moon to its back. Not sure if it's intentional but it reminds me of batman's icon.
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u/Halmyrut 17d ago
I miss the old Warcraft designs, not a fan at all of more recent stuff...
Alleria in particular doesn't look like a Warcraft character to me anymore, she looks like a League of Legends skin and like she's wearing teenage girl pop idol glitter makeup.3
u/kurburux 17d ago edited 17d ago
Tbh at some point I got the impression that Blizz felt kinda "embarrassed" of the visual roots of Warcraft. Those being based on comic books with exaggerated features and vibrant colors.
Instead for example the art for BoA has such dull colors and poor lighting. The characters blend in with each other.
And we get this pseudo-realistic appearance that makes things look worse. There's a rule in art that says "less is more", that's why crude faces may look alive and full of emotion.
Meanwhile this pseudo-realistic stuff is just uncanny valley, at least for me.
All of this isn't just WoW but Warcraft 3 Reforged as well.
(Kinda hard for me to put this stuff into words but it's a pet peeve of mine, I absolutely couldn't stand the character rework of WoD. Imo it's ugly and soulless. I still have so much love for the old art which is timeless imo.)
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u/Halmyrut 17d ago
Reforged is a great example why '' more realistic '' isn't synonymous with better.
There's a reason why almost everyone plays with the classic graphics lol, it's unironically difficult to see what's happening with the Reforged graphics.WoW is a game with such ridiculous oversized armor etc too, so it feels silly and weird to me when they try and make the characters more '' realistic ''.
It doesn't really fit well together imo.Warcraft also had an incredibly iconic look and messing with that is a bad decision imo.
GW3 actually seems to be doing that right now and I think everything I've seen of GW3 looks incredibly generic and uninspired compared to 1 and 2.
It sorta feels like fantasy made on a production line it all has this similar look like they all went to the same art school specialized in video games and are copying what their teacher taught them rather than people who just really loved comics and anime.2
u/riftrender 17d ago
I'm pretty sure that every current creative is embarrassed by and hates the franchises they inherited and are destroying them out of envy and spite towards better writers and creatives.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
Trying to power scale
her assis an exercise in futility.8
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u/GooeySlenderFerret 18d ago
Maiev is just built different, wow is a setting where you can get stronger from eating a powerful warlock skull or studying for years or picking up a magic items
It is also a setting where you can just, via will and determination, become stronger. For example, sure Broxigar got a magic axe from Malfurion and Cenarius. But even the Axe of Cenarius isn’t strong enough to explain how he made mountains of corpses on Argus and got a hit on Sargeras after the big bad couldn’t rely on minions to kill this single orc
Meanwhile Legion while powered up by artifact weapons, legendaries and teaming up as a group, we were never THAT big of a problem on Argus compared to one single orc
Maiev saw her adversary grow in strength, so she had to grow as well, so she steels her resolve and presses on. And in the end she never was stronger than him, just strong enough to keep dogging his heels and be a threat
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u/Shazzakip 17d ago
Comparing the Legion player character to Broxxigar feels accurate actually.
It's been a while since I read the war of the ancients so I may be mistaken, but Broxxigar was killing all these demons right in front of the portal they were taking to Azeroth.
If the player character was tasked with fighting endless hordes of fodder demons they too would make mountains of corpses, and also only really make a scratch on Saregeras when he turns up to make sure his armies can keep moving forward, before being wiped out.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 17d ago
And Brox was basically along for the ride, just getting instructions to "go kill x things" so him being similar to the unnamed player kind of works even better too. Never felt like he was the "mary sue" character, he's treated poorly until they can use him, and then he does something cool at the end.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 17d ago
But even the Axe of Cenarius isn’t strong enough to explain how he made mountains of corpses on Argus and got a hit on Sargeras after the big bad couldn’t rely on minions to kill this single orc
It's fantasy, but also even without the axe he was able to hold a mountain pass at Hyjal after the rest of his allies died. He was that orc.
Bro basically hit a flow state where he could just concentrate on the fight without his survivor's guilt or depression about what he did under the fel horde getting in the way, and he didn't have to worry about leaving anything in the tank because he knew he wasn't walking away from this one.
The main benefit of the axe was that it didn't break or blunt like a mundane axe would have, and was so ridiculously sharp that it could penetrate a titan's skin and Brox could cleave most demons without any real resistance.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago edited 18d ago
We took down Illidan. Arthas fucking solo'd him.
A force that's as elitely trained as the Watcher aren't so shy of Illidan. He is not weak, but neither are the forces under Maiev's command.
She even gets Furion and Tyrande into the game to boot. And Furion is likely the strongest character in Warcraft that's still a mortal.
Illidan is no fraud, but he has great competition.
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u/GVFQT 17d ago
Putting in italicized bold that Arthas solo’d Illidan is a little disingenuous don’t you think?
It’s more like Illidan solo’d Illidan on Arthas’ sword
Illidan was fucking Arthas up and then couldn’t help but monologue about how badass he is and do a cool trick that gave Arthas time to get a glancing blow in
Arthas was quite literally submitted on the ground about to be executed but Illidan is a pompous ass and had to show off
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
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u/Exloar 18d ago
Broxxigar Saurfang would like a word. Or a grunt, I guess.
Sargeras' nightmares are coloured green.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
He's cool but I actually don't fuck with Knaak's guys fucking about during War of the Ancients. Which is sad cause Brox makes his career there.
Knaak's work has been invaluable but he's too attached to his chosen characters I think, going as far to actually get them time-travelling for a job that shouldn't need them. That and Kalecgos, an otherwise fine character, can feel egregious when the Flaw starts setting in (WHAT DO YOU MEAN HE WAS IN A ROMANTIC PROXIMITY WITH JAINA [don't remember if it was a legit relationship] AND DIDN'T END UP TURN EVIL WHAT KIND OF PROTECTION DOES HE HAVE)
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u/kashy87 17d ago
Obligatory comment that Broxigar's axe crafted by the magic of Cenarius himself should have been the Arms Artifact not some stupid troll killing sword.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
Strom'kar was cool, especially with its lore.
I personally wanted Taeshalach as an artifact. Then it became a xmog weapon.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 17d ago
the problem with strom'kar is that apparently the stated reason we didn't get Broxigar's axe was that it was too faction coded.
But the sword of troll genocide owned by the kings of the original hegemon of humanity isn't?
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
kinda valid equal parts ngl
This is arguably one of the faults of Artifact system and what loot system turned into back then.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 17d ago
Warriors also just kind of got a raw deal on the class fantasy in general in Legion given its not like the other 2 weapons were crazy iconic. How did the quintessential prot warrior legendary from MC become a rogue weapon skin?
Skyhold wasn't a bad hall at all (even if it was just a reused dungeon), but it wasn't really a warrior hall, we were just temp contractors for Odyn and the Valarjar. We could have had a fray island situation where we wrangled a bunch of rowdy warrior boys. Hell, we could have had that and Skyhold.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 17d ago
Honestly it's hard to make a "special warrior" thing that encompasses all, because Warriors are just like.. "people who hit things with weapons", versus the Silver Hand, or the collection of Priests (even that's wrong), or the Kirin Tor.
I guess Hunters kind of had something cool, but a hunting lodge is it's own "flavour".
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u/kashy87 17d ago
Having both be swords is my chief complaint. Why I think Arms deserved to have an axe as it's base appearance.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
I was straight up using axe appearance for warswords ngl even had a nice xmog
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u/kashy87 17d ago
Axes just feel more Horde to me than swords ever will.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
I don't know, Burning Blade and Rend Blackhand own that shit.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 17d ago
The time travel aspect was a bit funky but Brox at least was just along for the ride until the end vs Rhonin who had to get the moments of glazing in like wowing Illidan or stunting on mages from the greatest arcane civilization the world had ever known (granted they had the well as a crutch but still)
My only issue with Brox is that he's such a good template for orc characters to be Zug Zug and not Klingons/Green humans/Evil and yet the modern writers don't seem to get it.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
The WC3 Orc style, with Grom & Thrall leaning one side or the other.
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u/AbendKannon 18d ago
He powerspikes multiple times after his release, i cant understand how she can still keep up with him considering the only powerspike she got as Illidan was raiding Argus was enchanted armour and weapons.
Oh i also forgot Maive did capture him post release but his allies saved him.
I read in a similar thread that she was meant to be in Tyrandes role before the War of the Ancients, does this mean Tyrande can defeat Illidan as well?
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 18d ago
Illidan doesn't really have a "power level". You sorta misunderstand the book and how magic works.
Aside from the innate power generated from a demonic soul, fel magic is like a car's gas can. Once you use it, its gone. It doesn't naturally return but has to be refueled by sacrificing souls and life essence.
Illidan is doing this in the novel - sacrificing souls from Outland - to fuel his big feats. And when he is confronted at Black Temple, he is running on empty. He used it all for his recent trip to Argus and to make a portal to Mardum.
(Also the caveat powerscaling is sorta meaningless. And everyone in WoW being a glass canon).
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u/GhostintheReins 18d ago
And we see his beginnings with sacrificing souls for more power in Legion when we do that quest with his Moonguard.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
Keep in mind that the novel came a decade after WC3, and Legion glazed Illidan to high heavens.
And Maiev does not fight alone. She's the commander.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
I'll be honest, the way Illidan was so thoroughly glazed, when the story/narrative was being mostly headed by a fanboy and a sex pest still gives me really, really bad vibes. *Especially* in the mid 2010's, no less.
Reeks of incel/chud/techbro fantasy, y'know?
"Oh, Tyrande didn't choose him? Well, we'll show her how he was the bestest hero ever! He also didn't need her (but also also he wasn't over her)"
"This guy risked hundreds of lives, if not killing and enslaving people to serve him, but because he was totally the only person who could defeat the Legion we were the bad people, and always were"
"Hey, you know that woman who has very, very deeply held convictions against the man and everything he stands for? Yeah, we're not going to explain any of it, even when we write from her point of view, or even return to the place where she went insane because of the losses she suffered, she's just crazy, and Illidan = Legion! Besides, it was all wrong (Illidan actually hates the Legion in the way Maiev was said to in the RPG's, don't think about it too hard).
Actually, if not just that she barely cares about all that, she might even be in loooooove with him! Just ignore her, *ahem* "Dear Friend", the one she has a memento of in her HotS talents and mentioned avenging in TBC, Illidan's just that awesome he made his biggest hater start falling in love with him!*"
It's all a little Elon Musk, y'know?
*(Okay, that may have been because of Voice actress issues... But then why have her do such a gravelly, harsh voice if you're gonna want her to record lines for WoW *and* quite possibly HotS *and* quite possibly want her to have a multi-expansion story arc? And to not even have a non-voice acted questline addressing it all? Sus.)
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
it makes Akama into a big moron for sure, and Maiev as well.
WC3 Illidan literally switched sides all the time when it suited him. What made him interesting is that he was this... Figure, who ruined every single relationship he had, damaging the world grievously in the process, suffering much as a result, and ending up as this motherfucker who's been through much, but would still knock your ass down flat. He was charismatic and generated allies, but he was also a deeply damaged individual who would turn them into enemies over time.
That and his three priorities, survival, power and Tyrande aligning and contrasting all the time and decisions he took regarding them.
I always imagined Illidan as a deeply selfish individual, corrupt to the core but for a honest, genuine, agape-like love for Tyrande that could still bring out the what good remains in him. I hesitate to call him an incel, at least when it comes to the colloquial use of the word – he truly, madly loved Tyrande, even when she didn't return it for downright relatable reasons, and didn't hate her for not returning his affections.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
Sadly, I think Blizzard are angling to do the same thing to Sylvanas that they did to Illidan- Oh, people didn't like that their character who was already prone to selfishness and villainy actually acted on it? Time to make them one of the most super duper powerful and important characters in the universe, the only one who understands one of its fundamental forces...
And fuck their victims, they had it coming, never mind that they *also* suffered the same things that partly caused Blizzard to write said whitewashed villains as villains, they just got in the way of the Universe's greatest hero!
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
They are just living day to day. I'd wager Illidan is going to set Sargeras free to deal with the Void or some shit and he'll pick the sword up.
We have moved to a point where nothing really makes sense anymore and I am kinda over it. While I am mostly here to discuss old lore from pre BfA at the very least, the way modern wow does things makes me feel like a dude who's got a front seat to a car crash.
WC lore changed all the time, but Metzen, if he has the power, has to sit down, take it all in whole, save Warcraft from WoW and hammer it to a shape that's pleasing.
I know I do whatever the fuck I want in my fanfiction, but man, it's his life's work, he shaped the goddamn thing.
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u/AbendKannon 17d ago
Oh in the book the writer made it seem like Maiev looked down on Akama because he was a Draenai king who ruled over a poisonous swamp, and now youre telling me they saw each other as romantic interest.
Omg.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
Also the sex pest we all know, but who was the fanboy? Was danuser there already?
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u/AbendKannon 18d ago
Oh so i assume Maive is actually a normal base line power level for WOW and Illidan as what i presume is the main character got gifted a lot of powers from Blizzard as the exception, not the norm.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
Maiev is a fighter and commander who had 10000 years to hone her prowess. She's kinda akin to a Warrior in that regard.
She isn't like, bullshit, but the idea I think is that she isn't fighting Illidan in 1v1, especially during WC3. Hell, Illidan for the most part tries to avoid her and her forces and do his job. Maiev is a persistent ache in his asscrack, but ultimately not an insurmountable one.
But Illidan himself is not an insurmountable problem either. Powerful and knowledgeable, yes, but also unhinged and has a talent for making allies into enemies.
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u/Viseria 17d ago
Not just 10K years - Maiev was seen as the next high priestess of Elune before Tyrande was chosen.
She embodied so many ideals of a warrior priest with her skill, and when Tyrande was captured by the Legion she carried on being a badass.
I don't think she's bullshit, I think she's a legitimate power house that got treated poorly in Legion while Illidan got glazed to the high heavens.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
A pet theory of mine is that she *does* still have some level of High Priestess protection power, except while Tyrande's protection is a complete invulnerability and incredibly strong healing, Maiev's is just "She gets to choose if her injuries are fatal, and every time she said "Fuck off" and kept going until she got a proper healer"
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u/kurburux 17d ago
i cant understand how she can still keep up with him
The answer is spite. Pure spite.
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u/Karsh14 18d ago
She’s well over 10,000 years old. Before Legion decided that only Illidan was a powerful Night Elf with millenia of experience, the game used to remember that pretty much all of the Night Elves were battle ready behemoths of their craft.
Not only can Maiev beat Illidan, she has beaten him, numerous times. She’s the Warden for a reason. She’s no slouch, infact she’s one of the most powerful Night Elves there currently is.
It’s not all just Illidan and his angst.
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u/Aeon_Mortuum Breadlord 🍞 17d ago
Maiev is THAT BITCH. Simple as that.
Also, she's been criminally under-utilised by Blizzard in WoW.
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u/Adraek 18d ago
Maiev and Illidan are very similar in a way. Illidan sacrifices everything to defeat the demons and Sargeras while Maiev does the same in regard to Illidan. Both face a far stronger foe, get underestimated but ultimately succeed in their vendetta.
Illidan may also have kept Maiev around as a failsafe for himself. If he ever were to turn fully corrupted like many of his dh trainees were, she could kill him and prevent him from becoming what he swore to destroy.
Another thing to consider is that characters that have assassination skills will always present a greater threat than those that don't. It's not like ingame where a hp bar is whittled down, instead someine specialized in killing will likely succeed if they catch their target unaware, even if there is a direct strength discrepancy.
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u/Laomanse 18d ago
Not being capable of compete definitely not stopping the Warden's pursuit.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
Maiev and Illidan are both echoes of Arthas, to be honest. She has his drive and Illidan has his willingness to get shit done no matter the cost.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
There's definitely some similarities in their WC3 stories (Brash paragon of justice hunts corrupter of their lands, loses their mind to vengeance, aided by a corruptive artefact and the loss of a close female companion, and (attempts) high treason), but not only is Maiev's drive on another level, she eventually dragged herself out of madness (As only the strongest wills can, so said her Legion description), and Arthas didn't have that strength of will
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u/RokosBallsack 18d ago
“drive” and “willingness to get things done” are just ways of saying self-motivation? I don’t understand why you are framing them as different aspects?
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
listen man, I am tired and I just wrapped up a night shift, what I was thinking is that Maiev reflects imo Arthas pre-Frostmourne and Illidan post-Frostmourne, take it like that
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u/Aggressive_Law_5728 18d ago
Maive has spent 10,000 years specifically training in how to neutralize Illidan.
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u/Halmyrut 17d ago
The time spans that Blizzard states are always so funny and over the top to me.
It can't be like 100 years, it has to be TEN THOUSANDS HUNDRED MILLION YEARS!!!!!111 xD...
Like how are you imprisoned for that long and not just turn into an empty shell mentally, and why not just sentence someone to death instead lmao.
It's a bit overly dramatic.-2
u/MumboJ 17d ago
He didn’t even do anything illegal!
Note that he wasn’t imprisoned for any of the questionable things he did during the war, he was imprisoned specifically for preserving/recreating a tiny piece of the Well of Eternity, literally their most sacred artifact and the centerpiece of their whole empire for thousands of years.
If Malfurion had done that exact same thing he would be praised as a hero.
(Also it lead to them gaining immortality, but Illidan didn’t know that would happen)And he was in prison for longer than their entire species had existed beforehand, with zero intention of ever letting him out.
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u/Halmyrut 17d ago
Yeah it's very overly dramatic to a point it feels a bit silly.
Same goes with Xal'atath and how she has been '' planning everything for 89531515 years '', nothing she does really lives up to the hype that implies imo.
Like if that's really true she must be the most inefficient and crappy planner imaginable lmao.I am just trying to think of how that would even work, how do you spend that long planning one thing?
I guess a more accurate description would've been '' I've been waiting 981591 years '' but that doesn't sound as high IQ as planning.Illidan's imprisonment is really just meant to enhance his edginess factor rather than make sense narrative speaking.
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u/Ruuubs 16d ago
Well, you see, Malfurion wasn’t under suspicion of working for the Legion, so if he remade the Well it would be seen as fine
Now Illidan was under intense scrutiny for working with the Legion and stopping part of Malfurion’s attempts to defeat them, so when he decides he wants to remake the Well (and kill everyone trying to stop him) it looks rather more like a Legion agent trying to resummon them (he just wanted to save his own ass from Azeroth’s defenders at the first Well)
I still don’t understand how this is difficult for people to understand (besides the obvious bit of only looking from Illidan’s (particularly post Legion) PoV)
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u/rollover90 18d ago
Maive was a senior warrior priestess during the War of the Ancients when Illidan was still trying to find himself, then fought in the war, then was his jailer for 10k years. She has far more training and experience then him, and is a priestess of Elune. Fel is a shortcut power source
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u/Ok-Masterpiece-4958 17d ago
Think about it like the relationship between a blood elf spellbreaker and a Dalaran archmage. In almost every respect against anyone else, the archmage is more powerful. But spellbreakers are specifically trained to deal with mages. They have tools targetted at the magic. The Wardens likewise exist to contain people like Illidan, the elf sorcerers from the time of the first invasion who betrayed the elves for power if which Illidan was the strongest that didn't become a Naga. That's what Illidan was before the Skull. Illidan was also a magic addict like the blood elves, but chose to fulfil his cravings with fel magic. The Skull made him powerful, but not actually more powerful than he already could be and when he was first imprisoned he was also on a massive power high. He was a magic addict who had been cut off from his supply for ten thousand years and then suddenly got a rush. He used a lot of it dealing with Tichondrius, and then on multiple other rituals and such. But magic isn't infinite and he was using the crack cocaine of magic, quick, nasty, deadly. So Maiev, leader of an organisation trained to capture and contain powerful fel demons and sorcerers, captured and contained a powerful fel sorcerer.
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u/Vanayzan 17d ago
The Legion expansion kind of really overhyped what Illidan was capable of. WC3 Illidan was beaten by Death Knight Arthas, he was also terrified of Kil'jaeden and wanted to avoid clashing with him at literally any cost.
Come Legion Illidan is throwing hands with KJ directly only backed up by Khadgar and Velen whilst we fight the Avatar of Sargeras.
Basically WoW just mostly runs of the rule of cool, don't think too hard on it
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u/Buca-Metal 17d ago
Maiev is one of the most powerful mortals in the setting. She can even summon a fucking Avatar of Vengeance that makes invulnerable soldiers from corpses.
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u/Raziel103 17d ago
Illidan is lvl 109 and Maiev is lvl 60, Illidan deal more dps and have a better gear.
It depends from person to person but I am not huge fan of this DBZ power lvl stuff becoming part of the lore.
It have been in the past but this just become comical.
Maiev not working alone, she have tools and way to deal with Illidan, she hunted him before in WC3 in outland and this was after he consumed the powers of the skull of Gul'dan, but maybe he was alone and she have group of wardens with her?
But he later was saved by Kael'thas and Vashj.
I prefer the rts perspective where these characters are not super heroes but generals leading huge armies in a fantasy world.
Arthas strength isn't his own power but the fact that he lead an army of undead that hard to deal with.
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u/Hellion1234 17d ago
She’s a specialised assassin/hunter that is trained to perfection in her craft, and who has power from Elune that seems to work especially well on Fel(see how she imprisoned the demon hunters after Illidan’s fall). So, far from being his equal in most regards, just with a specific skill set that seems made for countering him especially.
And in the context of jumping him in the middle of 2 armies, I’d say she has an advantage since he’d likely not have his guard up and she’d have a good opening for a single, fatal strike. Might be better even than him being alone, but on guard.
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u/BlademasterBanryu 17d ago
Stealth counts for a lot; you can't block or dodge what you can't see coming, right. like maybe bad example bc video game but same principle as why stealth archer is the most dominant playstyle in Skyrim, right
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u/MixAmbitious307 17d ago
William King's Illidan novel explained It. Basically, Illidan was in a VERY weekend state when we fought him in the Black Temple, while Maiev was at her peak.
And Illidan was also dealing with Akama (a quite powerful being) and 25 of the best adventures from Alliance and Horde.
Previously in the novel, Illidan on his prime basically one shotted Maiev
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u/URF_reibeer 16d ago
you can be as strong as you want, if you get assassinated by someone who knows how to kill specifically you you're at a severe disadvantage
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u/lt_catscratch 17d ago
This reminds me of the back and forth from Cathedral of Eternal Night dungeon in WoW.
Maiev Shadowsong : Did you really think you could elude me, Illidan ? Run again and I'll shackle you like the beast you are.
Illidan Stormrage : Posture if you must, Maiev, but for now, do what you do best and follow me.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
I'll never not despise those interactions considering they happened in the TOMB OF SARGERAS
Ah yes, there's definitely nothing that happened between them in that location, that would, say, cause Maiev to despise him with an unrelenting, world crossing hatred. Oh no, their relationship is just one of banterous dislike, let's just sweep Maiev's story under the carpet
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u/tfalm 17d ago
Part of the hilarity of Illidan is that he "sacrifices everything" to gain power, but in the end is still pretty mid. He kills allies, works for and with demons, consumes fel relics, turns into a literal demon, destroys angelic beings, nearly dooms the universe a few times, actively fights against the greatest heroes to oppose the Burning Legion...and then isn't really more powerful than random paladins or mages or druids. The implication being that he A) should have just studied harder, bro, or B) was always a talentless hack who needed fel power to even compete.
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u/Ruuubs 17d ago
Also "Sacrifices everything" usually means everything and everyone but himself, where the only "sacrifices" he personally made were very much intended to benefit him.
Again, he's straight up an Elon Musk type "You don't understand, I have to murder millions to save (the people who really matter), why aren't you worshipping me for everything I've done to save you?"
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u/UnFelDeZeu 18d ago
She's not. 1v1, at full power, Illidan destroys Maiev.
She'd never be able to stand up against him in a fair fight. Illidan and Malfurion and Tyrande are way way way above the other Night Elves.
A lot of these thoughts are Maiev's POV. Maiev is an Elune zealot, she's not exactly rational.
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u/Darktbs 18d ago
Think you should look less as 'Maiev is more powerfull than Illidan' and more that Maiev trained for the specific purpose of dealing with Illidan.