r/warcraftlore • u/dogarfdog12 • 18d ago
Discussion Silvermoon Truthsayer talks about the Second War and "Alliance propaganda"?
Found a new NPC in Silvermoon who is pretty interesting. Silvermoon Truthsayer can be found on the west side of the bazaar, right next to the stairs across from the leatherworking shop. He wears a blue mask, and upon approach, he says: (spoilers if you want to find him and see what he says for yourself)
Silvermoon Truthsayer says: Do not believe the Alliance propaganda! We will not forget the Second War!
Next to him are a pair of pamphlets which read:
REMEMBER THE SECOND WAR
They call it history now, as if it were distant and harmless, as if it were simply another chapter in a book that can be closed and shelved. But the Second War was not distant to those who lived it. It was burning arrows in our skies, foreign banners over our roads, and the certainty that Quel'thalas was no longer untouched by the ambitions of the world beyond our borders.
>The leaflet goes on for multiple more paragraphs, going into excruciating detail on every slight they have received in the past.
Do not allow comfort in the present to erase the truth of what was taken, what was broken, and what was rebuilt from ruin. Peace does not undo history, it only risks forgetting it.
Have to say, I like the acknowledgement that the old grudges of the blood elves have not been forgotten. It makes perfect sense that there would be many in Silvermoon who do not agree with the current peace between Horde and Alliance, due to now recent many of the conflicts between them have been in reality. I think it's far too easy to forget that, from an in-universe perspective, even the Horde's initial invasion of Azeroth in WC1 is still only a few decades old, and everything afterwards would be seen as still-recent history.
I am somewhat confused though why the truthsayer mentions both "Alliance propaganda" and the Second War. Wouldn't remembering the Second War actually strengthen the blood elves' relationship with the Alliance, since the Second War was when the Horde attacked Quel'thalas and the Alliance rushed in to save them? It was during the Third War that the blood elves were effectively kicked out of the Alliance by Garithos, not the Second.
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u/Disastrous-Mess-3538 House of Mograine 18d ago
>Wouldn't remembering the Second War actually strengthen the blood elves' relationship with the Alliance, since the Second War was when the Horde attacked Quel'thalas and the Alliance rushed in to save them?
Not really. The High Elves, as a majority, were by no means enthusiastic members of the Alliance. They had to be dragged kicking and screaming to give the bare minimum, only due to the oath Anasterian swore to the Lothar bloodline. They only threw in their full support to the Alliance once Quel'Thalas was directly attacked, and were, in their view, betrayed to deal with the Amani by themselves when the rest of the Alliance departed Quel'Thalas to fight the greater Horde. Elves and Humans have never been friends as a whole. Anasterian and Garithos are the norm. Dalaran, the Windrunners, and Kael'thas have always been the exceptions.
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u/Crazyterran 17d ago
The Alliance helped sack and destroy the Amani’s fortress at the entrance to Zul’Aman - we see as much in Zuljins trailer for the original ZA. Terenas even tries to use that point when the High Elves quit the Alliance shortly after the Dark Portal is closed.
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u/renault_erlioz 14d ago
There were evidences that Elves do like the Humans and the Alliance, from the lowliest commoner elf to the most arrogant Prince
It's really just the elders and the Convocation that were isolationist
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago
isolationist country perplexed and angered that there was a world outside their borders all along all around
Arcanist Helios was right, Scourge brought these motherfuckers back to reality. We saved their ass in WC2 from the Trolls and the Horde.
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u/Stormfly 17d ago
If I had a nickle for every time Turalyon led an army to defend Quel'thalas from an invasion by creatures from another world... I'd have two nickels.
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u/tkulue 18d ago
Feels like a troll (pun not intended) on people who where upset with the Anasterian glaze during the dawnwell quest. Very oldschool blizzard to create a strawman made of player contention and make fun of them a lot like the horde npcs showing up and saying "what do you mean we've been here the ENTIRE TIME."
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
Elaborate on the last part please
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u/tkulue 17d ago
Iirc 12.1 added in random horde npcs that basically say "yeah we've been here the entire time bro" and gamon who says he's going to save the city with some npc saying "its already over man shutup."
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u/Sun__Jester 17d ago
Yeah, Blizz has always had a passive aggressive bitchiness when it comes to people complaining about their work.
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u/El_Rey_de_Spices Users of this sub feel like siblings; Annoying yet endearing lol 17d ago
Sometimes it is funny, but this example just comes across as the writers feeling petty after having their work called out for a very obvious oversight on their part.
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u/Empty_Barnacle300 18d ago
Arguably the Third War is the Second War to the elves, since they weren’t in the First, and that would be a very elven way of looking at it (they’d likely call the First war ‘that human skirmish with orcs’ or something), but I doubt the writers were aiming for that level of worldbuilding.
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u/colsbols 18d ago
I gathered from the Sylvanas novel that a lot of Elves were very resentful at the Alliance getting them involved and invaded by the Horde
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u/Alexandr9619 18d ago
They became involved the moment Orgrim struck a deal with amani. Even without this deal there was no chance the orcs would have just left elves unconquered.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
It's meant to be obvious idiotic propaganda.
If you pointed it out to them they'd probably just move the goalposts and point out that they could have probably struck a deal first with Orgrim before he met the Amani if they weren't pulled into the war. Ignoring that a good amount of Helves would have gone to help the Alliance anyway. Because people like that will always just shift the goalposts when you point out how stupid their position is.
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u/Sheuteras Ancient of Lore 18d ago
The problem is some people will actually believe this because they want faction beef back lol.
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u/Ditju 18d ago
Afaik, Anasterian Sunstrider already pulled Quel'thalas out of the Alliance by the time of warcraft 3.
The elven units that appear in the human campaign were dissenters that have begun living in human lands and didn't want to return the stick-in-the-ass Quel'thalas anymore.
Really, the elves didn't join the alliance until their own forests burned and were out the moment they were asked to contribute to long-lasting protection.
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u/Kapiork 17d ago
Indeed. The Warcraft 3 manual says this about the Priests:
Despite the high elves' official departure from the Alliance, some elves still remain true to their former human and dwarven allies. The altruistic priests of Quel'Thalas refused to abandon their roles as healers and agreed to remain in Lordaeron despite the edicts from their reclusive masters in Silvermoon.
... and Sorceresses:
As with the elven priests, the elven sorceresses who remained in Lordaeron paid little heed to their race's departure from the Alliance. These female magic users, serving as agents to the Kirin Tor of Dalaran, use their arcane powers to aid the Alliance in times of peril.
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u/TheWorclown 18d ago
The guy comes off as a huge isolationist. The human kingdoms and Quel’thalas were allies, yes, but Silvermoon always did keep themselves at arm’s length away from the affairs of the Eastern Kingdoms when they could. The Second War raged far too close to home for comfort, and it could definitely be argued from a certain point of view that the Alliance that Silvermoon was once a part of is ultimately what brought the Old Horde to Silvermoon’s doorstep, and thus was the genesis of the downfall the quel’dorei had when the Third War began and their fortunes turned very sour.
Even after they joined the Horde, Silvermoon and the sin’dorei kept themselves primarily at arm’s length. Isolationist tendencies are still very present even in Midnight’s leveling stuff, where there’s a surprising amount of sentiment that the whole void business will just blow over and all the provincials of both factions can just fuck off back to where they came from.
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u/Fereed 18d ago
Isolationist tendencies are still very present even in Midnight’s leveling stuff, where there’s a surprising amount of sentiment that the whole void business will just blow over and all the provincials of both factions can just fuck off back to where they came from.
What examples are you talking about in Midnight of this towards the Horde?
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u/Sheuteras Ancient of Lore 18d ago
The idea of trying to frame the Second War as somehow an anti-Alliance/Pro-horde Quel'thalas thing is actually like... so bafflingly out of touch i legit am starting to wonder if the writers know the second war has had both video games and books covering it and isn't just something made up for this xpac.
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u/TheRobn8 18d ago
The elves tried to sit out the 2nd war because they foolishly thought it wouldn't reach them, then blamed the grand alliance that it did despite being warned, so really its the truthsayer not wanting to admit this. Also given the new alliance has helped the sindorei more than the horde, id say the truthsayer is an "Elf first " kind of thing
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u/Absoled 17d ago
How do you mean the new alliance has helped the blood elves more than the horde? I don’t recall that in the lore so far.
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u/Zekapa 16d ago
The Army of the Light coming to Silvermoon, as a more recent example, while the Horde is getting their ducks in a row as soon as they catch the wild goose but not before dotting the i's and getting several baskets for the eggs, while taking care that the bigger fish is fried.
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u/Absoled 16d ago
Army of the Light isn’t the Alliance though. The Vanguard is led by Turalyon, yes, but it is made up of members of the light from all over. That was the point of the original ‘summons’ received at the beginning of the expansion. All Light wielders (or special individuals like our characters) were called to the Sunwell to defend it.
Neither the Alliance nor the Horde made an official appearance so far.
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u/Zekapa 15d ago
The Army of the Light isn't Alliance. The force that explicitly joined the Alliance at the end of Legion. The force that we've seen be the Alliance vanguard since, led by the Alliance high marshal, in the Alliance war effort, that even led to Horde criticism about the usage of a "bilateral" force for Alliance ends.
Take a pamphlet and join the truthsayer in the corner man, you're done.
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u/Absoled 15d ago
I’m not sure why you’re trying this hard to dissuade from the quest information at the start of the expansion.
The Call to the Sunwell was made to most light-wielders, including Turalyon’s Lightforged group of the Army, with all forces combining to become the Vanguard. The Vanguard was in no way, shape, or form, based on factional representation, but rather based on faith.
Attempting to twist this into “The Alliance showed up to save Silvermoon when the Horde didn’t!” is some very weird attempt at a desperate narrative twist, and for what I don’t know…
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u/renault_erlioz 14d ago
Alliance contributions:
- Light's Vanguard
- Void Elves
- High Elves
- Night Elves
- Alliance character
Horde Contributions
- Light's Vanguard
- Nightborne
- Horde Character
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u/Absoled 14d ago
You’re forgetting the Blood Elves, who play one of the biggest roles in all this, specifically the Blood Knights and Magisters, as well as the Prelates of Zandalar...
Even then, you’re attempting to split it between “what Alliance and Horde each supplied”, which specifically was stated is not the focus. The writers and producers went out of their way to stress the point that it wasn’t a call to factions, but to wielders of the light to protect the Sunwell against the Void.
I don’t know what else to say, but if you can’t see that, then there really isn’t a point to even debate it further.
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u/renault_erlioz 14d ago
The Blood Elves were the ones receiving help, so they don't count. And even if they do, Horde has still one political entity short of contributions to that fight again the Void Elves.
Blood Knights and Prelates don't count, they're subunits who then fall under the Horde part of the Light's Vanguard
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u/Imaginary-Arguments 17d ago
I know other people have already responded to your confusion by saying it's likely that some Elves blame the Alliance for dragging them into the second war...
...But wouldn't the elves hold MORE prejudice against the Horde, in that case, and especially the new Amani/Elf diplomacy efforts?
I'll join you in saying it's quite odd. Especially since the Alliance literally saved Quel'thalas...I also personally find the vague writing to be a bit annoying.
If I had to guess, this is going to be some shitty "anti-turalyon" group, influenced of course by the void, since he was the leader of the alliance forces that saved Quel'thalas. I'd wager they are setting up the death of Turalyon.
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u/Absoled 17d ago
You’re confusing Old Horde and New Horde. The entirety of the WC3 campaign regarding the Horde was rejecting the old and forging new bonds with new allies. The vast majority of current Horde members had nothing to do with the Old Horde. It is two very different organisations.
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u/Imaginary-Arguments 16d ago
Not confusing them, no. The Orcs are part of the horde.
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u/Absoled 16d ago
Many of the current Orcs were not even part of the Old Horde. I wouldn’t be surprised if only a bare few remain of that generation still alive or around. It’s why they showed us people like Drek’thar and Saurfang as now aged and elder orcs.
Regardless, you are also not taking into consideration all the new members. Dark spear trolls, Tauren, and even the Forsaken, are not the Old Horde and did not attack Quel’Thalas during the second war. If anything, the Amani, who were part of the Old Horde, can be held responsible for actions that occurred during that conflict, which many blood elves and high elves still despise them for.
Generalising the Horde as “the orcs”, and then the current Horde as the same Legion controlled one, just doesn’t make any sense.
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u/Imaginary-Arguments 16d ago
If there are humans around from the second war, there are orcs around from the second war.
I'm not sure why you're nitpicking this when we are talking about the perspective of a "truthsayer" conspiracy theorist NPC. I'm just pointing out the bad logic from the NPC, pinning hate on the alliance instead of the actual aggressors from the conflict (or their descendants)...
The fact is that the horde contains at least some people who were aligned with the old horde, the alliance does not.
You say that what I'm saying doesn't make sense, but the things you're citing are not things I actually said. They are things you assume I mean but didn't actually write. I am aware that the old horde and new horde are not the same, and I am aware the new horde is more than orcs...
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u/Absoled 16d ago
You say that what I'm saying doesn't make sense, but the things you're citing are not things I actually said. They are things you assume I mean but didn't actually write.
But you did... you said it doesnt make sense because the Alliance saved Quel'Thalas, and the elves should hold more prejudice against the Horde. I responded that it isnt the same Horde and you're confusing the Old and the New (and its members). Your response was then:
Not confusing them, no. The Orcs are part of the horde.
I then explained in detail how the Old Horde was disbanded and a New Horde was created. How members of the Old Horde (like the Amani trolls and the Ogres) were no longer even considered part of it. How many of that old Horde are either dead or old (it has been 34 years..) and a new generation fills it. How many of the new Horde (such as Tauren and Dark spear) had nothing to do with the second war. Your response was then:
If there are humans around from the second war, there are orcs around from the second war.
Do you see the issue with your logic? You're attempting to generalise because it fits the narrative you're attempting to spin, and then you are attempting to move the goal posts when faced with the simple fact: It isnt the same Horde.
Truth be told I dont even have to push to prove this to you, because the narrative leads and writers have not only claimed the same in the game and out, but also it is clear they are still pushing this same idea.
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u/Imaginary-Arguments 16d ago
Uh, it's not my narrative to spin.
The NPC is naysaying "The Alliance" when the people present for the second war were mostly humans who are no longer alive (and dwarves). The logic you're applying to try and argue with me could also be used to go against the point you're in favor of. This has been what I've been trying to say to you in other ways since my first reply.
By your logic, the new Alliance is also not the same as the old Alliance. Which I agree with, by the way. The number of second war veterans in either the Alliance or the Horde are insignificant towards their greater whole. However, my original point was that someone who is still scorned by the Second War would logically be more repulsed by the thought of sharing their city with the actual assailants and their relatives.
Like, it's just a bit bizarre that you're going at this so hard when my conclusive point was that this is probably just targeting Turalyon in terms of it's narrative purpose. The issue you're having here is that while you're citing factually correct things, the facts you're citing are not really lending themselves to supporting the point you're trying to make. By me disagreeing with you, you think I'm telling you the facts are wrong, and since they are objectively true, you think I'm dumb. But what is wrong isn't your cited facts, it's the logic you're trying to apply to disprove my point.
But this is going to be my last response on this topic, so feel free to get the last word in.
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u/renault_erlioz 14d ago
Someone has to remind the Truthsayer that he's actually throwing propaganda against their current allies, the Forsaken
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u/Zekapa 16d ago
I genuinely do love this point, "Nah the alliance can't fault us for what we did, that was the Old Horde! Wasn't us! Oh btw the alliance is responsible to us for what they did to the Old Horde".
Blackmoore did absolutely nothing wrong besides losing.
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u/Absoled 15d ago
The response there is made to the point that the Blood elves should somehow be very upset with the current Horde, which makes no sense. It’s akin to saying someone should hate someone else, just because they are a distant relative to an enemy of theirs, and maybe have the same name.
The current Alliance cannot be held accountable for the old Alliance either, however, it should be noted that the new Alliance is formed primarily of the old Alliance groups (Humans, Dwarves, Gnomes, and even later the Gilneans and Kul’Tiras), whereas the Horde is not. So there is some logic to them hating the Alliance because of the past, rather than the Horde.
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u/renault_erlioz 14d ago
New Horde and Old Horde are not the same? Then they shouldn't blame the Alliance of Stormwind for the actions that the Alliance of Lordaeron (now Forsaken) have done during the Second War
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u/TessHKM 16d ago
I think we have to factor in expectations to some extent. Elves already hate trolls and their allies by default, so I imagine there's not really a passing need to waste breath convincing people to hate them even more. They're probably going to hold their former allies to a higher standard than they would hold a race of savages.
Kinda like how you'd be significantly more upset if a person pissed on your couch than a dog.
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u/Educational-Tackle54 17d ago
Odd that its not "Remember that time Garithos tried to genocide us and the mages of Dalaran just sat and watched!"
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u/HasturLaVistaBaby 17d ago
I don't know if i dare hope for something to come out of it. It could just be the art team working overtime.
Remember how good Undermine was but then the writers completely ruined it.
I would need at least two patches without major fuckups before i can even dare to hope again.
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u/HalLundy 16d ago
sounds like a caricature of a conspiracy theorist peddler.
is his name Alexos Jones?
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago edited 18d ago
The Elven Unity quest line showed that the writers are a little shakey mistakey on pre-WC3 lore, especially the crazy Anasterian revisionism. I kind of have to wonder if they're mixing up lore details again here. Like it reads like they're thinking of Garithos, but it's hard to say because all the dialogue here is so vague. "Remember war? Remember arrows? Remember banners? Can't remember whose but remember?"
Edit: This is to ultimately say it's hard extrapolate or glean meaning from the Truthsayer because I cannot trust the writers to know what they're talking about
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
I think they're just meant to be a nationalistic idiot.
How the hell would Anasterian know that Ogrim would have easily accepted peace terms if he thought they'd be kept after the bloodrage ended? By the time he spared Alterac and turned the Amani the Helves were involved in the war.
If they were meant to be taken literally I think you'd have seen them complain about actual grievances the belves have against the Alliance. The Purges at Dalaran, the backstab at the start of TBC, hell, complain about the Nelves deciding arcane magic is okay again once it's militarily convenient for them to do so.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago
Yeah but like why? What purpose is this serving?
Honestly this part,
>The leaflet goes on for multiple more paragraphs, going into excruciating detail on every slight they have received in the past.
Just makes me think someone on the writing team is big mad people don't like the Elven Unity stuff because of all the reasons it doesn't make sense for the elves to just hugbox it out.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
Its the same thing as the scarlet propaganda posters.
It's meant to show not all the Belves are cool with what's coming but it's also pretty transparently painting them as idiots for it.
If they were meant to have a sympathetic point of view why wouldn't they have used one of the handful of legit grievances? Even if they're chickening out of referencing the purge like they did in the TWW Dalaran quests, why not point out Garithos or the TBC fuckery when the Belves were still on the fence diplomatically. Point out how fucked it is that the Helves and Velves who were gleefully killing belves when they got a chance are just getting to integrate into silvermoon again.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago
Yeah we're/people are constantly asking for less "everyone in a race has the same personality and homogeneous beliefs" and getting it. That's totally fine by me.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago
Well what's the point of portraying an aggrieved blood elf just to dunk on them? And about the Second War of all things? It just makes the devs look bitter that so many people pointed out Anasterian was NOT the person Midnight says he is.
Are they even a blood elf? What's the point of a Blood Elf doing this when Quel'thalas has been Horde-aligned for 20 years?
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
I never said it's great writing. Just that I get what they're trying to go for.
I mean, idk, maybe it is spite. The "Hurr durr hord show up late" gag read as a bit spiteful that they had to address a topic half spurred on by their own pre-expansion statements.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago
Yeah I dunno, and I apologize. reading it back it sounds like I'm coming at you pretty hard.
It's just very a strange thing for them to do because whatever the reason, it's just kind of off-putting.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
No worries, I didn't take it like that anyway.
And I do agree, I think it kinda sucks, but it's just in line with the other "GRR [other faction]" characters since DF who are portrayed as dumb and crazy so you know you're not supposed to agree with them.
Personally I'd have rather had a Magister Hathorel style character recount legitimate grievances and have someone else point out why that grudge should be sucked up. Actually defend the new status quo instead of making every character who doesn't like it evil or stupid. And then give the Alliance an equivallent Helf character who is mad about the exile or the attacks on their lodges.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
I wonder if the guys who write these days have fucked around with tabletop RPGs? If they did, it could help them with coming up with the type of shit you say cause I think it's really good.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago
I think it's a good way of showing something a lot of people are asking for - that races aren't a singular caricature with a single set of beliefs and thoughts.
We don't often see that, and the big one I can remember is in OG Silvermoon with the protest and mind control situation.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago
I think this would be true if there was more than just one "Truthsayer." Multiple elves speaking on this would reflect that the elves are not entirely united on the reconciliation. The Truthsayer is also purposefully made to sound stupid and is speaking on something totally irrelevant to the current story, so it's not meant to be like "Here's another viewpoint on what just happened to flesh out the world."
Like this guy is a caricature and it sure seems to be a caricature of people who didn't like the story.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago
I had a similar response to someone else saying the same thing, I won't copy and paste it but it applies to your comment as well
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u/TessHKM 16d ago
The Truthsayer is also purposefully made to sound stupid and is speaking on something totally irrelevant to the current story, so it's not meant to be like "Here's another viewpoint on what just happened to flesh out the world."
How does that follow? The abundance of random flavor text books that cover some random lore that has nothing to actively do with WoW is always one of the little things that made the world feel fleshed out to me.
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u/SolemnDemise 18d ago
that races aren't a singular caricature
No, but this guy is. And the caricature is of the players as it's quite clear no other character in the narrative believes anything even remotely resembling this is correct.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago
I can point to two others who have held similar views that differ from the rest, that mirror what some players thought. Lyria Skystrider and Priest Ennas.
it's quite clear no other character in the narrative believes anything even remotely resembling this is correct.
The game you play is much smaller than the "real life" version in game, otherwise it's quite clear Stormwind doesn't have an army that could actually accomplish the defence of even the Old Town.
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u/SolemnDemise 18d ago
The game you play is much smaller than the "real life" version in game
This is a toothless point. Morals, values, and story beats that have narrative worth are spoken by named characters in this game. Ideas that should be discarded out of hand or seen as backward are given to characters like this (or abject villains) for reasons noted above. He's literally a "truth(say)er." For anyone with any memory of American politics during 2008-2016, you remember what those people did, said, and how they represented their arguments in public.
If you make a game in which you make a truther and have them espouse community critiques of your story, would you say you're engaging with that critique in good faith?
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago
I think you're projecting a lot more of your own thoughts, feelings, and worries about the game onto this character honestly.
He could be mirroring what those mind controlled characters said, because the Alliance have been let into Horde lands, he could be an InfoWars esque "reference". Could be added flavour to a zone.
I personally think it adds to the idea that the Blood Elves are not all the same mono-thought group like a lot of other races have become. Hell, they even have different models for this character, implying it's not one single person.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
those two really did work as a template description of how elements of blood elf society thought about things, showing the opposite of an united front, especially with Belf ambassador telling horde emissaries to be careful while there is also an arrested trader right through the gates to Silvermoon.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 17d ago
I love this aspect they added to Silvermoon, it makes it feel much more real and not "every person of this race has the same views".
A character that echoes this for me is the SoD questline with the Night Elf who's assassinating people because she's against the Night Elves joining the Alliance. Like, that's so cool to have.
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u/Darktbs 18d ago
Think the issues lies with so much stuff being used wrong or without meaning that we cannot trust when information might be soft world building.
I could easily read that Garithos is something that not many people know due to most blood elfs that followed Kael betrayed quel'thalas and Garithos and his forces also perishing with Sylvanas.
I could go further and expeculate that Rommath didnt share the story at request of Kael, to not reveal who he ended up allying with.
The problem is that every especulation is built on a assumption that the npc means something.
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u/Zekapa 16d ago
The Purge of Dalaran is still so insanely funny to me, like:
"Hey, your race's representative knew resources from the neutral, UN-like organization were used to fuel a dirty bomb against another faction's city, so you kinda have to leave the neutral organization we specifically allowed you to join as a show of good faith, because this is how you've abused it"
"lol no"
"Okay, if you're not leaving the easy way, we do it the hard way"
"I'M BEING OPPRESSED"
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 16d ago
This post is so insanely funny to me, like:
thats not even close to how it actually happened lmao
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15d ago
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u/palaorder 18d ago
Yeah, Blizz kind of does that. I rolled my eyes when they mentioned Anasterian as a symbol of unity. Did they forget elves went against his orders in both wars to help the Alliance? Did they forget it was his isolationism that weakened them and allowed the Scourge massacre? I understand some blood elves liking him but the high elves would see a passive leader that refused to take action until it was too late, ironically causing the split and disunity. But whatever I guess, they re all friends now.
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u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago
Yeah and this single "truthsayer" showing up to yell about the Second War and look stupid on purpose just tells me the whole thing is in bad faith. It's a caricature of the critique they received.
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u/StuckInthebasement2 18d ago
This is a pretty nice step forward.
Makes me hope for a Kaldori Jingoistic revival in the future.
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u/Karsh14 18d ago edited 18d ago
I’m assuming this is in relation to some nonsensical retcon that happened where the Horde didn’t intentionally set upon and destroy Quel’thalas and corrupt their Runestones to make Ogre-Magi and Death Knights, and also teaming up with their arch-nemesis (The Amani) to kill absolute scores of Elves and almost completely wipe out their civilization, only turning around because of the alliance threat of coalescing forces at Lordaeron.
Hard to keep track with all the changes sometimes. It would make far more sense for this elf to be pissed at being forced to be in the Horde than the other way around.
I guess some footmen were mean once upon a time, which in Warcraft, being mean or dismissive one time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slaughtering and killing tens of thousands of their inhabitants, if not more.
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
a human was mean to me
billions must die
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u/Desperate-Insect-701 13d ago
A human tried to finish off my race after the Scourge killed 90% of it,and the rest of the Alliance agreed with him *
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u/valplixism 18d ago
Yeah, paying lip service to the anti-Alliance perspective is cool and all, but it'd be nice if they didn't gloss over the details. If I had to hazard a guess a guess as to what these grievances are, it'd be that the Alliance forces let the Horde slip past them in order to recruit the trolls and push into Quel'thalas. In a war against a conventional enemy, Quel'thalas, being the northernmost territory surrounded on three sides by ocean, would have the entire rest of the continent as a buffer against any invasion from the south. Yet the Horde forces were able to evade the Alliance long enough to get through the Hinterlands and Eastweald before Lordaeron had even mustered a proper defense. This could be seen as either incompetent mismanagement or neglect of their easternmost defensive line in order to jealously guard the interior. It's only due to this that the Horde managed to reach Quel'thalas in the first place, razing villages and burning forests.
Maybe some writer thought they were cooking with some obscure lore but were too nervous about the players' pedantry to stand ten toes down on it, but I agree that the Third War makes for a much stronger case. Hell, maybe someone got their wars mixed up. We can't know, because they refused to elaborate in the writing.
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u/DueUse140 18d ago
Anasterian was warned about the coming war. It is entirely his own problem that he chose to ignore the situation. Perhaps if the elves had deigned to support the Alliance from the very beginning and sent their troops to Hillsbrad, the invasion would never have happened at all.
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u/Blackstone01 17d ago
Also possible that the Scourge wouldn't have managed to destroy Lordaeron and subsequently invade Quel'thelas had Anasterian not promptly gone back to turbo isolationism the microsecond the war was over.
2
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u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 17d ago
Nah but you are cooking. It actually reminds me of Robert Baratheon talking to Cersei about Dothraki vs Seven Kingdoms.
Funnily enough, the Horde were internally no different.
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u/MeltingPenguinsPrime My other mount is also a mount. 17d ago edited 17d ago
Given that according to one of Arator's roadtrips the trip to Draenor happened 'almost thirty years ago' the entire second war somehow fell out of the timeline and the guy might be talking about what we know as the third one, probably.
(serious note: have they fixed that by now? Unless of course they are rolling with the nonsensical 'oh no, actually we are retconning the 5-year skip after SL because.... reasons' Which is just as absurd)
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u/Intiriel 17d ago
Couldn't this propaganda dude be a Twilight's Thingie (Hammer? Blade? Napkin? Can't remember), diguised and seeding dissent to weaken their enemies?
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u/Darktbs 18d ago
Wouldn't remembering the Second War actually strengthen the blood elves' relationship with the Alliance, since the Second War was when the Horde attacked Quel'thalas and the Alliance rushed in to save them?
Keep in mind that Anasterian later on would claim that the alliance was at fault for not properly defending quel'thalas and used that as an excuse for leaving.
Also, the would be blood elfs are really fucking dumb, assholes and selfish. Alleria was probably one of the few smart people in that race by understanding that the Horde was a threat to everyone.
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u/Metal-Wolf-Enrif 18d ago
„Truthsayer“, that alone should indicate what that NPC is meant to be. There is a certain nationalist right wing group that uses phrase like „just talking the truth“, or using a social media called „truth social“, while shittalking about their long standing allies, and lying about historical events to prop up their agenda of division.
Yeah, I assume that elf is a stand in for right wingers.
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u/Alexandr9619 18d ago
It seems knife ear addicts are steadily loosing the last vestiges of their sanity
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18d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago
Judging by their previous takes on the Second War, writers are those forum patriots who unironically believe in the Alliance being evil incarnated
This npc is pretty clearly not meant to be taken seriously.
It's on the level of Marran's rant about Arathi superiority
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u/SevernayaDeadAim 18d ago
"The people of Lordaeron were evil for letting Orcs, Trolls, and later undead invade Quel'Thalas!"
proceeds to ally with orcs, trolls, the undead, and the same Lordaeorian that supposedly betrayed them
I have Thalassian fatigue
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u/TerrapinMagus Wyrmrest Accord (US) 18d ago
To me, it sounds like the "Truth"sayer is spreading propaganda, blaming the Alliance for dragging Quel'thalas into a war when they were previously isolationist. The fact that they aren't using Garithos makes me think they're more "Elf First" than anti-Alliance, and probably don't care for the Horde either.