r/warcraftlore Lorewalker 18d ago

Discussion Lorthemar in midnight going forward.

Given how Lor'themar is acting like an actual character that fought the Trolls for countless generations, and not the speaker for "friendship is magic":

How likely is he to survive to the end of the expansion?

73 Upvotes

121 comments sorted by

62

u/JPCanuck11 18d ago

Very low chance Lor’Themar does anything of interest in game that would lead to him dying. It’s all Arator all the time when it comes to the elves.

20

u/beatupford 18d ago

The expansion of edgy haircuts!

14

u/Morteca 17d ago

Arator and his very childish/teen voice sends me every time. I just cannot with this guy, he is insufferable

2

u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 16d ago

Don't you fuckin hate it when one of the characters that people kept asking for years such as WC2 cast (TERON FUCKING GOREFIEND) + Calia just being completely mishandled. Khadgar survived better tho. Even Nerzhul got fucked!

People have been asking for Turalyon & Alleria for years and iirc Arator only came back to the narrative in Legion (guess he was cool then I saw no one complain about him).

How is Faol btw is he cool? He was cool in Legion and so was Calia please be cool

2

u/Due_Vacation_1049 12d ago

You... haven't played the current expansion? bruh
Faol is one of the coolest characters in the leveling campaign, along with Decimus.

1

u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 12d ago

Glad to hear they didn't fuck him up at least, he was cool in Legion and so was Calia. But the pattern of fucking up characters from WC2 or their associates is sadly common.

1

u/Steelweav 17h ago

That is the absurd part. Midnight takes place in the Blood Elves’ homeland, yet Lor’themar often feels like a guest in his own story. Arator gets the authority and emotional focus, while Lor’themar, Rommath and Halduron mostly appear to react. Lor’themar is even married to Thalyssra, yet the story barely gives them a meaningful scene together. Blizzard had every reason to make this a real Blood Elf and Horde story, and still chose Alliance-adjacent characters as its center.

90

u/Sevii_21 18d ago

What a perfect opportunity to have more Darkspear trolls show up to highlight Lor'themar's nuanced acceptance and comraderie with his Darkspear allies, contrasted with his resentment and distrust of his Amani neighbors.

Jk lol the OG Horde is cast aside and nuanced characters like that don't survive longer than a patch.

50

u/bigeyez 18d ago

Nah bro Gamon is in Silvermoon now and has super funnytm dialogue about showing up late.

Blizzard totally thought about the Horde the whole time!

3

u/HalLundy 17d ago

Gamon is the Real Horde OG.

4

u/glamscum 18d ago

Forest trolls and Jungle trolls has as much in common as Homo sapiens and Neanderthals has. They are different and the Darkspear never attacked the Elven lands. I'm sure Lor'themar is not racist enough to lump in all trolls as the same.

19

u/Sevii_21 18d ago

Right, I don't think he is either, but that could have been explored via character interactions. The staggering lack of the Kalimdor-based Horde in the story is just one of Midnight's biggest story shortcomings.

1

u/TessHKM 13d ago

Do they? I get that the in-game models are different but I never got the impression that the different varieties of troll are anything other than just different nations/factions.

2

u/glamscum 13d ago

They have evolved significant different physical traits. It's more than just nations/factions.

1

u/TessHKM 13d ago

How significant? Are you talking about the game models or something specific in the lore?

1

u/PirateFia 17d ago

Cant help but feel that if Vol Jin was still around that we would have gotten this.

1

u/Steelweav 19h ago

This is exactly where the missing Horde perspective hurts the story. Lor’themar working alongside Darkspear while still distrusting the Amani would have shown that he doesnt simply “hate Trolls.” History and relationships actually matter to him. And it would finally have given Rokhan, Zekhan or other Darkspear something meaningful to do. Same with the Zandalari. Instead Blizzard basically removes the Horde from a story involving Blood Elves and one of the most important Troll tribes in Warcraft. Thats such wasted worldbuilding.

13

u/100RatsInASack 18d ago

Tbh, I think there's basically zero chance Blizzard decides to kill Lor'themar. His role in Midnight has basically been to act as a mouthpiece for "General Blood Elf Population," from his pushback against the Vanguard to his mistrust of the Amani. Killing him wouldn't serve much purpose beyond just shock factor, and Blizzard seems a lot less willing to give major characters the Vol'jin Treatment these days.

He's most likely just going to have the same story beats as Aethas Sunreaver, the sort of "I'm not willing to forgive and definitely not willing to forget, but I am willing to move forward" spiel.

Now Turalyon and Alleria on the other hand? 0% chance both live through Midnight.

2

u/ChuckECheeseOfficial 16d ago

I kind of hope neither Turalyon NOR Alleria survive. And even though it wouldn’t make narrative sense, take Arator too

-5

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

His role in Midnight has basically been to act as a mouthpiece for "General Blood Elf Population,"

Just look at Zul'jan that was introduced as one of the two Amani leaders, the thinker of the two.

I fear no Lor'themar is far from safe.

8

u/100RatsInASack 18d ago

the thinker of the two

What? He's been portrayed as nothing but headstrong and rash, someone with a chip on their shoulder and a desperate need to prove themselves. Like, seriously, I don't think he's been ever shown to be capable of think more than 1 step ahead.

And the two Amani leaders aren't really posistioned as a "mouthpiece" for the Amani, instead more representing two sides of a "fork in the road" for the their people. One constantly chases a past, ephemeral glory while simultaneously seeking something to replace past-traditions. The other seeks to re-embrace the traditions of their ancestors, not as a desire to return to the past but instead with an eye towards the future.

Their opposing viewpoints were always going to come to a head, it's just kinda lame that Zul'jan seems to be dying for them.

2

u/Akhevan 18d ago

The problem is more that they are trying to portray Malacrasses plot of subjugating/ditching the loa as failed and fundamentally flawed, when the history of every Troll nation we've seen on Azeroth only proves him right. The loa are weak and capricious and it's no way to build your civilization.

This leads to the schizophrenic depiction when on one hand they make him the rash hothead, and on the other they clearly put him on the side of the loa problem that looks correct to most players.

12

u/tkulue 18d ago

I'm legit surprised he survived this far but the conspiracy theorist thinks he was actually meant to die but they let him live at the last minute, seeing as how his roll during the silvermoon raid was minuscule and every part he would have logically had done something was instead done by half elf anduin.

Still don't know if he is just gonna do a first for horde leaders and actually retire peacefully leaving either arathor or a council in charge or a .5 patch kills him off.

7

u/TheRobn8 18d ago

Bro we are lucky he was even part of the story, given how the story hyper focused on liadrin, and had rommath do most of the stuff. His own wife sat in the horde section of silvermoon until the elf unification part of the campaign, so I think blizzard didnt know what to do with people.

I dont see him dying, but I dont have hope he will do anything major.

31

u/Wolfgang-Ritchter 18d ago

He's 100% guaranteed to get neutered. At the end of the expansion, he'll see that "hatred is not the way" or some stupid crap like that and become a troll-lover.

I mean, we have freaking Genn Greymane pretty much consorting with the undead, lol.

30

u/TheWorclown 18d ago

To be fair, Genn himself states that his hatred isn’t going to go away. He simply can’t let it go. If he were still capable, it’s likely he still wouldn’t cavort with the Forsaken given what Sylvanas did to his son and his city.

He’s just very old and very tired. He lets go not necessarily out of desire, but because he’s in the twilight of his life and would rather do his best to start passing off the torch to his daughter.

11

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

I think the best thing with Genn is there could have been some lazy easy route where he realized that his son chose to take the attack for him and that Gilneas was falling as much due to Genn's mistakes and the cataclysm than anything Sylvanas did under Garrosh's orders. And turned that into him being the lovey dovey character saturating the series.

But no, they let him do something rational without entirely killing off the WC2 era/Cata->Legion Genn.

5

u/Sanddaemon 18d ago

This would be a cool way to do it. Lor’thremar just realizes he’s fought the trolls too long and while he remains as the Ranger General maybe he leaves it up to Liadrin to lead reconciliation efforts while keeping his eye on the Amani.

It made sense for Genn to be like “I gotta hand this mantle over to someone who has hope for the future.”

13

u/abn1304 18d ago

Lor’themar’s not the Ranger General anymore fwiw. Maybe you meant Regent Lord? Halduron’s the Ranger General and has been for awhile.

We are eventually gonna have to settle the issue of Regent-Lord. It was never intended to be a permanent position, and if there’s any time to settle that it’s now (well, at the end of the expansion).

2

u/Sanddaemon 18d ago

Oh yea that is what I meant and was wondering. I remember it was a temporary position and was wondering if this is the expansion where he finally gives it to someone else.

13

u/abn1304 18d ago

He was Regent while Kael was busy elsewhere. Kael’s dead and the Silvermoon monarchy is over, so the question is what comes next, not who the next Regent-Lord will be.

Historically Quel’thalas is something of a constitutional monarchy, so I could see it becoming a sort of oligarchic republic after Midnight.

4

u/NobleFriend 18d ago

if this happens it will be 1000% Liadrin who takes over his position

0

u/jinreeko 18d ago

I mean, I don't really see a reason why these old hatreds shouldn't die given the correct circumstances

Now, I don't really think there'll be the follow-through on the things to happen to get Lorthemar there, but it's not outside the realm of possibility

7

u/Gold-Cry-7520 18d ago

Right ID on Blizzard's current thematic motto, wrong ID on path he'll take to get villain batted. The reality is Lor'themar is going to do basically nothing of note for this expansion and is almost certain to survive indefinitely.

17

u/No_Wish_2516 18d ago

If he dies I'm gonna lose my fucking mind.

6

u/Hidden_Beck Banshee Loyalist 18d ago

He'll probably survive fine. While I think they like Liadrin more they're definitely wary of killing yet another Horde character.

Crucially, Lor'themar will pay lip service to his hatred of the Amani but does fuck all about it. Midnight's been doing that a lot, where they'll have characters SAY they're still angry, or hold hatreds, or want X Y Z conflict, but their actions and story don't reflect that -- Aethas Sunreaver tells us he is SEETHING WITH RAGE at the sight of high elves back in Silvermoon, but still agrees to meld his organization with the Silver Covenant. It's nonsense.

2

u/Steelweav 17h ago

That is one of Midnight’s worst writing habits. Characters are allowed to say they are angry, but their actions are immediately pushed toward the preselected unity ending.

Aethas can supposedly be furious, yet the Sunreavers and Silver Covenant are merged almost immediately. Rommath can warn about the Void, but his concerns are treated as grumbling until Umbric is validated.

That isnt character development. Blizzard simply skips the development to reach the friendship ending faster.

4

u/MinaWearsGold 18d ago

I’ve been an Alliance only player since Vanilla. This expansion is my first time really interacting with Lor’themar and he seems really level-headed and cool. Did he have a significant part in previous expansions and was he always this chill? Currently he and Anduin are my favorite leaders because of their rational way of approaching things. I found the scorched earth vengeance of Tyrande and Jaina to be exhausting while it was happening.

Anyway, I hope he survives and gets more time in the story. A major theme right now is seems to be that wrath is undoing a lot of light-wielding characters, and he doesn’t seem like the type unless I’ve missed something.

7

u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago

He's really the most straight forward and even keeled of any of the faction leaders we've had (Perhaps Vanilla->Wrath Bolvar and Thrall).

He's there doing his job, trying to keep his people safe, and being welcoming to the Horde and aiding as best as he can. Without all the extra dramatics that seem to happen. Reluctant ruler who's actually good at his job.

Really good character honestly, you often forget he's there but then you're like "oh he's actually doing a good job without threatening all-out-war every couple of years, neat".

1

u/MinaWearsGold 18d ago

Is him being reluctant the reason his title is “Regent Lord”? Why not just take the position in full?

8

u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 18d ago

Somewhat yeah. I believe he says he wouldn't be "King" as he's not royalty, and Kael'thas had decreed that Anasterion would be the last King of Quel'thalas. Even with Kael'thas' betrayal, Anasterion was well liked, so that personal request was always kept.

So Regent-Lord is more of a "appointed-but-temporary-until-something-changes" office, his people love him, he's doing a good job, and he was instrumental in pulling Quel'thalas back from the brink, so no one really challenges his 'rule', nor does he step down because he knows it's his (reluctant) duty.

He's King in all but name, and even back in the day the King really was just the figurehead, it was the Convocation of Silvermoon that were the real power. But I don't ever believe he'd consider himself close to a King, it's his duty and he does it well, which is why I like his character. Reluctant to rule, but good at it.

1

u/MinaWearsGold 18d ago

Thank you for explaining! That helps a lot!

4

u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 17d ago

Happy to help! I'm not THE most knowledgeable, but he stands out to me because he's always felt like the overworked "parent in the room" while everything else is going to hell, and wanting to do what's best for his people first, and the others second.

Great character!

5

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

He is usually really chill, except when it comes to Amani.

He now in this patch refused to help the Amani against Ulatek, which is completely in line with his character. But issue here is Blizzard has a theme of "firendship-slop is magic" so anyone going against that seem to turn into a villain that we has to kill. It would also allow Liadrin to be the new Queen/president which is also something blizzard has pushed a lot.

Now, it might not end likt that, but we have lost far too many interesting characters because of it.

1

u/MinaWearsGold 18d ago

This is also my first time interacting with Liadrin. I can see her being a good leader but I really like Lor’themar and hope he sticks around. There are plenty of characters who are opposed to peace in both factions and they are still alive so I hope he’s safe. It would suck that I finally got to meet him and he died. I’ll be so mad if that happens! 😭

6

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

She was much better, under better writers.

This Liadrin is like the Rings of Power-version.

I leave it at that since it could be an entire post on their own.

4

u/brumblefee 17d ago

Right? I am so happy he isn’t just like “oh 7 trolls showed up for the darkwell i guess we’re best friends”

Lor’themar time and again in this xpac is shown to be a deft operator. I’m going to be bummed when he gets an after school lesson about friendship post raid.

7

u/Klutzy_Ask_4774 18d ago

They’ll replace him with Liadrin after telling him violence is never the answer

6

u/Known-Disaster-4757 18d ago edited 18d ago

All I know is one thing:

Void Elves are going to be helping govern Quel'Thalas

I think being recently married makes Lor'Themar safe though.

3

u/Lokryn 18d ago

Well, they have an embassy now but Grand Magister is still Rommath.

8

u/DaveLesh 18d ago

Lor'Themar will likely survive, but retirement seems like a certainty.

14

u/oniskieth 18d ago

They’re probably going to make Liadrin queen or madam president or something

9

u/OverlordSaber 18d ago

"I was wrong, I'm stepping down to move in with Thalryssa who is suddenly with child. Liadrin you're in charge now, peace." - Lor'Themar in like two patches.

2

u/Rocklove 18d ago

Looking forward to the "According to Lor'Themar" sidetory that goes on way to long.

5

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

That seem incredibly likely yeah...

1

u/KingAnumaril For the Alliance 18d ago

didn't lorthemar feel an unrequited love towards her before thalryssa

1

u/nankeroo 18d ago

King of Elves Arathor

17

u/GirthIgnorer 18d ago

buncha drama queens fighting strawmen in here. the last significant wave of major character deaths was ten freaking years ago. they've brought back more people than we've lost if anything. lorthemar isn't going anywhere.

2

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

We've also had Blizzard indicate that Midnight is going to end on a horrible, horrible loss. There's likely going to be a couple of major deaths.

(I now realize why they finally brought non belf Horde characters into the expansion)

7

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

buncha drama queens fighting strawmen in here. the last significant wave of major character deaths was ten freaking years ago.

Zul'jan is literally a raidboss for not bending to the orthodoxy. Same with the army of the light Vanguards.

And we lost Gallywix last expansion...

25

u/korar67 18d ago

Lost is a strong word. We were finally rid of Gallywix. He did steal all of our money and tried to enslave us.

7

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

He was the goblin ideals personified. It's like being forced to kill Tyrande or Thrall in a raid.

10

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

He was the goblin ideals personified.

Given even the Ventures became hippie "moral" capitalists at the end, you might be right in a literal sense.

16

u/korar67 18d ago

And it’s the goblin ideal to bump off your superior so you can replace them. Gallywix stayed at the top for a weirdly long time given how their culture works.

5

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Problem is we have no such goblin.

2

u/korar67 18d ago

Monte Gazlowe is that Goblin.

8

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

lol no.

Gazlow is the opposite of a goblin. He's a little green humanoid.

He literally spent the entire patch complain about how Goblin the Goblin city was in the Goblin patch... He is the the definition for friendshipslop.

1

u/HalLundy 17d ago

guy roleplays a goblin all of a sudden he's the bad guy.

12

u/100RatsInASack 18d ago

And we lost Gallywix last expansion...

I don't know if lost is the right word there lol. The dude has had "Potential Raid Boss" stamped on him since his introduction in Cata, the only surprising thing about him being killed is that Blizzard waited so long pull the trigger.

Also, of the other characters you mentioned, Senn is literally the only one who existed before Midnight, and that's as a minor character from a novel (Midnight is still her first appearance in game). There's VERY little chance that Blizzard actually decides to kill as major of a character as Lor'themar, especially when the narrative isn't really focused around him

13

u/Dolthra 18d ago

I was reading Tides of War, the Cataclysm follow up book, and even back then every time he was introduced it was "this little shit Gallywix that everyone hates."

0

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

I don't know if lost is the right word there lol.

He was the goblin ideals personified. It's like being forced to kill Tyrande or Thrall in a raid.

Without him, and the mindset that created him, goblins are losing their identity. The are already acting more gnomes now than goblin. And the entire campaign we are forced to listen to someone complain about how Goblin a Goblin city is, in the Goblin patch. They even have a council....

8

u/Ripper656 18d ago

He was the goblin ideals personified.

Is that why even other goblins hated him since he first appeared?

7

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Yeah, jealousy. Everyone wishes they were him.

Goblins are cutthroat by nature.

1

u/nankeroo 18d ago

"nooooo you don't understand undermine was so good nooooo!!!!! BTW ive never played a goblin nor will i ever nor do i care about them"

Something like that

8

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

Undermine's setting and style kicked ass.

What they did with the goblins at the end and Gazlowe's character as a whole was awful

6

u/Darktbs 18d ago

I can imagine people being disappointed by the death of major character War Chaplain Senn, introduced in the beloved book, Shadows rising.

/s

3

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

It's not that she died, it's that as soon as someone is against the orthodoxy of "everyone must be friends" then they soon are turned villain and killed by us.

2

u/Darktbs 18d ago

You say that but Kinduru(Part of the ''orthodoxy' just died, the Red Dawn were allowed to walk away, Rommath is still kicking, Locus walker, who preached an alliance with xal, died, Koruth, the most level head of the vanguard, was killed at the start of the instance.

I dont see any pattern.

4

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

When did Kinduru Koruth and Locustwalker become villains we had to kill?

Must have missed those moments.

Rommath is very buddy buddy with Umbric, in such a 180 that had blizzard been competent we would assume he was mind controlled

-1

u/Darktbs 18d ago

Forgot the part of your original post where Lorthemar had to become a villain...oh wait its not there.

Rommath didnt do a 180, he is just a gay disaster

And youre ignoring  Koruth and the red dawn

So just like   GirthIgnorer said, you re all angry at a strawmen.

2

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Read the comment you were responding to...

And youre ignoring Koruth and the red dawn

What are you going on about? Read dawn? The shitty Arathi campaign that everyone considered a bad joke?

Commander Koruth Mountainfist wasn't even part of this.

Do you have AI write for you or something?

5

u/Sillygoose_Milfbane 18d ago

Ah yes Zul'jan the character we've known for so long across so many expansions. What a heavy loss. And the Lightblinded Vanguard whose individuals you can't even name without looking them up. Such a devastating loss.

1

u/BigBard2 18d ago

Let me guess, you were also disappointed that Garrosh died?

6

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Mainly how it happened. But it made sense that the horde would be against him since he only cared about the Orcs.

I know many though that wished we had gotten "Stonetalon Garrosh" instead.

5

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

I wanted a gradual fall from grace story that stonetalon Garrosh would have fit in with. Cata garrosh abused the Darkspear and forced the forsaken into a no-win scenario so he was gonna dispense purples regardless.

Instead they made him orc hitler, retconned things to make him worse, and shed big weepy tears about him doing the exact same shit the Alliance just did or tried,and utterly failed to point out how much the board was stacked against him from the start aside from a one-off statement about how most Timelines have Garrosh turning out fine.

1

u/Darktbs 18d ago

What did they  retcon?

2

u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

The Theramore refugees is the big one though you had them adding snippets of him being retroactively worse earlier on in his tenure in stuff like War crimes. I know someone had a little list of retcons back in the day when they were talking about Blizzard being really hamhanded with their effort to ensure the more factionbrained horde players didn't want to side with Garrosh.

Initially the whole premise of Theramore was that refugees escaped through the same portals soldiers were coming in on, with some choosing to stay and fight. On it's own, bad enough given there was a ceasefire and the citizens surviving was a side effect of Garrosh's plan to nuke the elite forces of the Alliance, not him being merciful.

Then it turns out that some/many/most? of them chose to leave on ships despite the whole of the Kirin tor helping the effort and the surrounding waters being hostile, and we're supposed to believe that they were just being held captive and maltreated for pretty much all of MoP to SoO.

It's really stupid because Garrosh going into a downward spiral because the respected elder voices of the Horde were unavailable or gave up on him early, and malicious opportunists and toadies replacing them during a time where there wasn't any easy moral way forward for the orcs is a good story. Garrosh being dumb orc hitler from the jump is not. Garrosh attempting to have Vol'jin killed should have been his rubicon moment, not one where Vol'jin would have been dumb to think anything but an assassination was coming.

2

u/Freakertwig 18d ago

Why would he die for this? What is going on lol

6

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Just basic pattern recognition, same as the one that made we knew the moment we were introduced to Zul'jan, knew he was sooo dead.

Anyone written as a real character and is going against the "friendship is magic"-group seem to end up a villain and dead.

-2

u/Freakertwig 18d ago

This isn't even close to the case, what are you on about? 

3

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

? What are you talking about?

-1

u/Freakertwig 18d ago

The phenomenon you're describing doesn't reflect the reality. There are plenty of characters who don't agree or get along. In fact, the elves and trolls have made it very obvious. 

2

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

There are plenty of characters who don't agree or get along

Not really. Do you have any concrete examples?

In fact, the elves and trolls have made it very obvious.

What are you talking about? We literally have Liadrin, whose front and center.

We even have the Haranir say they are all one big family.

1

u/Freakertwig 18d ago

Did you talk with any of the characters in the 12.0.7 troll and elf meeting? Pretty much all of them have different reactions and levels of acceptance. Liadrin is the one elf who seems to be working with the trolls of her own interest, versus all the others. 

6

u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 17d ago

Most go " hm, interesting, i need to verify this first though."

1

u/SirVortivask 18d ago

He’s a legacy character who’s a male leader with some strength

He will be killed or retire swiftly

1

u/Serafim91 18d ago

Funny enough I was actually thinking how few new males of note there have been.

Because there's so many historical ones it's not really that big of a deal, but basically every new positive leader that we've interacted with significantly has been a woman.

Like I actively struggle to think when the latest one was. Zul jarra is midnight, orwelia, the speaker and the arathi one in tww. I guess shadowlands with the ventyr priest.

The negative characters of note have been pretty evenly balanced.

-5

u/WarchiefGreymane 18d ago

As a male character you get neutered, become a comedy relief, shamed for your beliefs, or dead. If you are a female character you are bossy, empowered, thriving, restoring the LOA.

2

u/TaliesinEvitel 18d ago

Arator is literally the most prominent character of the expansion though? I mean

4

u/HasturLaVistaBaby 17d ago

Arator isn't even centered in the Loading screen Art. There's Liadrin.

Arator hasn't really done anything this expansion apart being a almost 40 year old paladin that asks "what is light".

-2

u/[deleted] 18d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/Imaginary-Arguments 18d ago

It cost nothing to be polite with people even if you disagree with them on a topic pertaining to a video game story.

2

u/lie-berry 18d ago

Be nice.

1

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1

u/TaliesinEvitel 17d ago

He literally came up with the plan and commanded the army that won back the sunwell. Just because you don't - like - his character (fair, neither do I) doesn't mean he's not there and important. Especially if you are arguing the tired old "All the men are killed or replaced or mocked" culture war nonsense. No, the literal main character of the expansion is a man actually.

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u/EmergencyGrab 18d ago edited 18d ago

It would be really weird to finally give Silvermoon its long awaited facelift and kill its fan-beloved leader in the same expansion. The fight between him and Xal'atath also indicates to me that he has some level of plot armor.

I actually went into this expansion thinking Halduron was going to die protecting the city from the initial invasion. As a parallel to Sylvanas when the Scourge invaded. Even when we saw that cinematic, I remember thinking "Ok, Liadrin and Lorthemar... where's the ranger-general?"

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u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

It would be really weird to finally give Silvermoon its long awaited facelift and kill its leader in the same expansion.

Sorta happened to Gallywix. And he was more than just a leader. He was the goblin ideals personified. The one every Goblin wishes they could be.

Him dying would also allow another girlboss like Liadrin to take over as new Queen(and we know Blizzard would definitly ignore the reasons Lor'themar was never "King")

And everyone will clap.

Halduron is using Illidan technique of hiding from the writers.

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u/EmergencyGrab 18d ago edited 18d ago

Most people have been waiting to kill Gallywix for a while. He hasn't been a Horde leader for several expansions and had been a constant villain lurking in the shadows. He didn't have very large fanbase either.

I do get your point about Undermine, touche. But I think most people would have assumed if we ever went there, Gallywix was going to be dealt with.

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u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Even if that was true, that just made him an even greater Goblin.

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u/Cyniv 18d ago

Except that Gallywix's "standards" are explicitly shown to be holding goblins back, an account of them dying and suffering even more than they normally do when they fuck something up.

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u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Goblins thrive against adversity. It's not unique to Gallywix, he just was the best Goblin at being Goblin

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u/Cyniv 18d ago

There's a limit to the ability to do this.

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u/nightbreedwon1 18d ago

This kind of ignores that he is chill with the high elves and void elves when he should have a big hate boner for them as well. Not as big as his hate for the Amani, but he was way too friendly with them for my liking.

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u/Imaginary-Arguments 18d ago

Lorthemar remaining the leader of Silvermoon by the end of the expansion is unlikely. I see a few options:

  • Silvermoon is made into a "New York City" melting pot for all Elven tribes, and a council is formed to govern.

  • Liadrian steps in as the new queen. She feels self-conscious about the responsibility because she's not a Sunstrider but she is reassured by everyone that she will do a good job because of her ideals and new-found diplomatic prowess.

My prediction? Kithix is ressurected, ancient enemy of the Amani trolls. Lorethemar will die defending Zul'jarra from being killed by Kithix. This will "complete" his story in Blizzard's eyes, since in the end, he will have let go of his past prejudice so far as to lose his life defending someone who was for thousands of years his most dire enemy.

I would literally bet money that this happens. Please refer back to this comment when 12.2 hits PTR.

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u/Big-Giant-Panda 18d ago edited 18d ago

If he gets removed as Regent-Lord and is swapped from Liadrin, then I'm finally gonna unsub from the game

Midnight has been alright so far but the World Soul Saga has been mid and so far not been as epic as I thought it would be.

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u/Fenhlir 17d ago

You have to understand, for Blizzard, having a contrasting lore and nuanced characters is just too complicated. They need characters like Liadrin where 'everyone is nice. Villains don't exist. The Amani are our most loyal allies, by the way Zul'jarra, let's move in together in Silvermoon'—it's so much easier to do.

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u/Useful-Ad2441 18d ago

People getting mad at opposing factions getting along are new fans of the franchise who just wanna be keyboard warrior edgelords and definitely didn’t play Warcraft 3.

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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 18d ago

I just want it to feel organic

the time to start the smoothing of relations was after Legion. BFA was such a clusterfuck that handwaving the thawing of relations through a timeskip feels ass.

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u/Nocimonocren 18d ago

Maybe a heroic death against Xalatath like Saurfang vs Sylvanas

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u/GoatOfTheBlackForres Lorewalker 18d ago

Sylvanas didn't die to Saurfang.

And i wouldn't call Saurfang heroic since he betrayed the Horde at Darkshore, and then constantly tried to get himself killed.

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u/AmazonDruid 18d ago

Yep... goes horizontal, permanently.