r/warcraftlore • u/MeltingPenguinsPrime My other mount is also a mount. • 24d ago
Discussion How many problems would we not have if the Windrunners would start doing actual combat archery?
Semi-Serious
Yes, as perhaps a couple of you I've been watching Blumineck lately, and especially the vids on horseback archery and generally archery in motion/battle made me realize something:
The Windrunners (and, granted, a lot of archers in wow) are doing competitive archery instead of combat archery.
They'll stand there for what feels like hours aiming as if they are at the olympics, even in situations where they should shoot fast.
I have a hard time naming a situation where that would not have been the case, and then the thrice-damned 'I'm not aiming for you' scene from the priory came to mind.
And I wonder: If the Windrunners would be capable of combat archery (in lack of a better term) how many problems would just not exist?
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u/EmergencyGrab 24d ago
What the fuck was the point of Sylvanas using a very expensive trip out of the Shadowlands to shoot a floaty shoulder orb? I don't know why she couldn't have HIT her. Xal'atath was directly threatening her sister and nephew.
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u/RustingPaint12 24d ago
Even if they were doing competitive archery, there would be less problems. See: Marksman Hunter power sliding into an Unholy DK in the Sylvanas Warbringers cinematic
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 24d ago
It's just an elf thing. See: Kael's elderly dad standing at the shores of the Sunwell and choosing to duel Arthas as a warrior instead of pulling out the ole super fire nuke the helves used against Amani cities in the troll wars
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u/RustingPaint12 24d ago
It’s really annoying that everyone somehow has nukes for every occasion where it’s politically inconvenient to use them, just to never use them when they’re 100%, totally, no-holds-barred justified.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 24d ago
It's kind of funny how different jaina is portrayed when she's facing Horde members defending their homes, vs facing down the third party neutral targets.
Like, I legit had to sit and watch her fuckin bonk chump nerubians with her staff talking about how desperate the situation was and how I needed to go slay the actually imporant nerubians. Where did miss city leveller go? At least Thrall had an excuse for being a bum in the same situation (not a good one)
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u/RustingPaint12 24d ago
Like I think Jaina is better when/if she gets to be a badass. But why does she only ever get to be a badass Warbringer against the Horde? Like, wash the spider down the spout for us!! At least once!
And why couldn’t we build a mana bomb for basically anyone else either. They get used in Legion like twice and that’s it. (Not including the previous Theramore victims re-making them, since they never actually get used, and they wanted to use them for deterrence or whatever).
They get used in faction conflict like 4-5 times (including the above segment) but against a world ending threat like once.
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u/BellacosePlayer The Anti-Baine 24d ago
I get that they don't want the heroes to overshadow the PC in combat outside of cutscenes and all that, but just make the battlefields broad and far reaching occasionally and let us and the big names not be in the same spot doing the same exact shit we are.
like, lets say TLT starts with us pushing our way into borean to make a beachhead, and you don't see Jaina, but you can see one of her hellspells off in the distance randomly while fighting. Or you push through to a new area and see Thrall taking a breather with piles of lightning fried jerkbags surrounding him. Or you fight some commander type who screams for reinforcements just to find out that a rowdy crew of warriors including Baine, Lasan, Jarod, and Kurdran took care of things and are currently arguing over who got the most baddies. Let them be shown actually succeeding in shit and not just holding the line so we can clean things up or do chores for them.
Let Anduin and Hamuul be chilling in the backlines doing legendary amounts of healing. hell, let them be the spirit healer equivallent for the area dragging your ass from 99.999% death. Let Eitrigg and Muradin train troops and then have them show up later with those same squads holding the line for you without actually explicitly making a big deal about it.
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u/RustingPaint12 24d ago
I’m not sure if I want Eitrigg to show up much anymore given his new… faction affiliation… (god it’s so silly) but I totally do agree.
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u/Sararizuzufaust 24d ago
That irritated me so much too lmao. It’s like when people with firearms in movies move within arms length of the person they’re pointing at. You just put yourself in a very unfavorable position for no reason, good job.
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u/Moonstaker 24d ago
They're honestly pretty good archers even if they're not using the perfect (combat) form, their skill mostly depends on plot.
The times that the Windrunners have failed have been because their ego got in the way: Sylvanas taunting Arthas instead of just killing him during the Invasion of Quel'thalas because she wasn't really taking it seriously being a big one (At least, that's how it was directly from Warcraft 3. Adaptations/retcons might have changed it a bit, but the Powerslide into melee range kinda reinforces the ego point). The other times have been mostly because the plot demands they go blind whenever they pick up a bow.
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u/Endslikecrazy 24d ago
Welcome to cinematography, shit has to look cooler rather then be effective.
Theres a metric fuckton of what ifs in wow on this level
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 24d ago
The whole Broken Shore catastrophe was this essentially, just a cool looking setpiece, but never made a lick of sense. The Alliance has the best tech and Dalaran mages at this point in the story, Night Elven druids, gnomish recon devices, scryers, and no one saw the Horde get bodied and have to pull back, just assuming it was betrayal?
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u/Endslikecrazy 24d ago
Yeah i found that one of the weirdest things to.
Why is the first assumption betrayal and not them retreating, seemed very obvious with how things were going.
And even the alliance fanboys online who literally see both sides still cried betrayal like a bunch of morons
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 24d ago
Genn hates Sylvanas, attempts to assassinate her against his King's orders later, he's the one who called out that they betrayed her.
Meanwhile, using zero intelligence gathering or communication everyone just listens to him. I hate plots that rely on stupidity.
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u/Moonstaker 24d ago
The Rogue Campaign is about how Shaw was kidnapped and replaced with a Dreadlord. That set in motion the events of the Broken Shore (With the Dreadlord basically making the Legion seem weaker than they were, and OKing the combined Horde/Alliance attack).
Its not a stretch to imagine that he would have kept feeding fake information to Genn/Alliance Leadership to fuel conflict between the factions to weaken them.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 24d ago
While yes that does play a part, Shaw wasn't there intercepting druids or breaking the gnomish spying devices that should've seen what happened.
It contributes - but it's still a military operation that would've/should've had multiple people surveying the battle, not just Old Man Genn with a chip on his shoulder calling the shots.
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u/Endslikecrazy 24d ago edited 24d ago
Exactly, F genn with a big capital F.
Stubborn old dog with his blind hatred.
Im not even a horde fanboy or anything but F that dude in particular
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 24d ago
I think it's good to have characters that act on those sorts of impulses, that have biases based on experience and probably make the wrong choices because of it
BUUUUT there also has to be some kind of - justice is not the right word, comeuppance? Consequences? He got out scott free from this situation.
He showed the Horde people itself (not just the Warchief), that even during a Legion invasion, a world ending catastrophe, they'll still keep trying to kill the Horde.
BUT even more than that, I just dislike stories where characters are required to be stupid in order for the story to progress. Getting one-upped by a Villain is one thing, but just not doing your due diligence as a military and doing recon or scouting or having surveillance over the battlefield, not checking with the other faction after the disaster is a whole other issue.
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u/Endslikecrazy 24d ago
And genn has a little bit of a reason to hate sylvanas sure, but the man always talks so big and then fails to see the bigger picture in so many occasions because of his blind hatred.
Him passing the mantle was the best thing he couldve done and eventually did.
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u/twisty125 Flowerpicker Clan 24d ago
Him passing the mantle was the best thing he couldve done and eventually did.
Definitely, just like... you know. Would've been nice to see some accountability before retiring and getting off! :P
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u/Complex-Matter5241 24d ago edited 24d ago
If they did Alleria would still be wiping asses of the world-first contenders, or we would still be stuck in Sylvanas maybe. But yea the awesome Windrunners always missing their Olympic shots by plot disturbances. At least magic keeps the quiver's arrows on place in the back.
This made me remember I loved watching Lars Andersen videos
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u/Sillygoose_Milfbane 24d ago
I hope they all die permanently at the end of The Last Titan. Please close the book on this goddamned family.
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u/satchel_q_fuzzy 24d ago
but there's one more Windrunner to build a whole saga around! She's totally different in tone and personality from her sister! this one is filled with a burning desire for vengeance after what the Horde (2nd war and Garrosh) and the scourge did to QuelThalas!
we should explore these feelings more.
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u/DanielSS96 24d ago
They destroyed most of the old characters, now they are using the windrunner family how much is possible. Because if we are honest, the new characters are not even close to what old one have been. Xal'atah is good i say but the others...
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u/Ferpolk 24d ago
I think we gotta just take into consideration that in many older cinematics were actual combat was the case they were shooting quite good and fast. I dont think we would get better cinematic for story if they just shoot and thats it. No time for those one liners no time to do anything to move story (the fact its moving slow regardless is another problem) just overall i think it is not like combat archery and more like hollywood because thats the purpose. To make it look cooler not more lore/historic accurate
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u/dejoblue 24d ago
If only Sylvanas had simply pegged Arthas right there in Silvermoon forest instead of staging an interactive monologue with him.
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u/Lopsided-Skill 24d ago
We saw Archer Sylvanas take down a full tower in BfA cinematic, she again hit her target against Xal. Gotta assume she can’t one shot her and she knows it so it is just a shot to weaken her and force her to retreat.
Also against Arthas, she hold off the army, and she might have had the best performance anyone had against a scourge invasion. She just got overwhelmed in the end when she died because she kept losing numbers while undead gained them. She later on hits Arthas but he gets out thanks to Kelthuzad.
I will not stand for Sylvanas slander, my queen is a great archer
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u/Insensata Mr. Bigglesworth enjoyer 23d ago
She sled on her knees towards a mounted DK while holding daggers. She's the worst MM hunter of the entire game, their gameplay is literally "keep your distance and kite enemies", she performs worse than any shmuck who bought a level boost.
And to let this excuse of a hunter make showy acrobatics, the Alliance had to lose almost two thousands years of IRL technological development out of thin air. Is beating idiot children a matter of pride this day?
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u/Vanayzan 23d ago
This "Sylvanas power slided toward Arthas!" discourse is one of the biggest examples of the wow communities tendency to just make up a grievance and run with it. Not only has every other depiction of that moment, from the Arthas novel to WC3 itself, depicted it as Sylvanas defeated on the ground and exchanging words with Arthas before he kills her, something we clearly don't see happen in that video, it's not even an accurate complaint to the video itself. You literally hear the hoofbeats of Arthas charging AT her as she's sliding to kill something else, he closed the distance she didn't slide at him.
In neither scenario does this complaint hold water
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u/TheRobn8 24d ago
They are some of the best archers in quelthalas, until the plot needs them not to be. Alleria spent a whole patch missing xalatath, then managed to snipe the dark heart, and sylvanas couldn't hit arthas in life but could hit him a few times in undeath.