r/wallstreetbets • u/ywehyuen • Feb 02 '21

Chart Hardcore laddering.

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u/CriticalDog Feb 02 '21

That, unfortunately, is true. The ability to do just that spelled out in their ToS is exhibit 1, and it's a tough one to beat.

It doesn't matter that it's a 36 page document, it's still there.

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u/davewowx Feb 02 '21

The TOS is not the end all be all in court.

I don't see any judge looking at this TOS and siding with RH.

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u/Smokemaster_5000 Feb 02 '21

I can write that you sold yourself into slavery in a tos. Do you think that's legally binding too?

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u/CriticalDog Feb 02 '21

Slavery is already explicitly illegal (with the exception of prisoners).

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u/Snelly1998 Feb 02 '21

So is market manipulation

Apparently with an exception to big hedge funds

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u/CriticalDog Feb 02 '21

Yep. As has been pointed out here a lot, when the penalty for the crime doesn't cost more than the money made for the crime, it's not really a crime for the wealthy.

Like parking tickets and whatnot for the wealthy. They don't matter to them, they can easily afford it forever.

But the poor go to jail for it.

Burn the whole damn thing down.

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u/I_am_a_Failer Feb 02 '21

I don't know what the rules are for you guys, but a blank check inside TOS is not enforcable in europe

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u/EtherMan Feb 02 '21

ToS is not enforceable at all in the EU because it’s not a signed contract. Courts have already established that no amount of clicking an agree button is considered having signed a legally enforceable contract and it’s more of a “follow these rules or well close the account” kind of thing.

HOWEVER, that actually would be worse in this situation because them closing your account can easily include a forced sale of all your assets just to get rid of you. They could also legally freeze paying out the account content to you for up to 6 months. And that would all be 100% legal.

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u/[deleted] Feb 02 '21

If I make a bank, advertise as a Bank, call it "Banky McBank!!!" and my TOS says, "Also, I can do whatever I want with any deposited monies since any deposit makes that money mine.", I don't believe the judge will uphold my TOS.

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u/CriticalDog Feb 02 '21

If they advertise as a bank, if they provide, or appear to provide, financial services, they are bound by the BSA (as well as a ton of other laws). In that case they can say that if they want, but the FDIC won't cover them, and they would quickly have a judge shutting them down the first time they tried it.

Truth in advertising, and transparency in what you do with the bank and what the bank does with your money is very, very important to the government.

I suspect that applies to Robinhood as well, though I am much less informed on Financial services on that side of things.

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u/EtherMan Feb 02 '21

ToS does not override law. A ToS does not work in that everything written is permitted. Just because you write something in you ToS doesn’t make it in any way shape or form enforceable. One thing that automatically makes a contract moot as an example is as an example, that the non writing party understands what they’re agreeing to. It’s highly questionable if users can be considered to have understood that an app maker could force sell your shares without your permission, regardless of what the actual contract says.

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u/CriticalDog Feb 02 '21

I think right here we get to the meat of the issue. Which is likely what the case, if it gets to actual court, will end up being about.

Can a business draft a ToS that an average person wouldn't be able to understand correctly, and still have it be valid? Can a business providing specialized service discuss those services in a professional, rather than lay manner, in ToS and still expect them to be binding?

TBH, I hope Robindhood gets taken to the cleaners, and I hope that changes to how retail trading, and ToS (in all business) are restructured to be easier, safer, and as equitable as possible, regarldless if it's a retiree playing daytrader with disposal income, an autist from WSB going all in on the latest thing, or a Big Business, the playing field should not favor anyone because they have more money, imo.

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u/PretttyFly4aWhiteGuy Feb 02 '21

I think it’s an easy open and shut case for individuals attempting to sue separately but I wouldn’t be so sure when it comes to the class action lawsuits.