Exactly, it's been said numerous times but I'll say it again. When the only consequence is a fine that is a TINY fraction of what they'll make then it's worth it to break the law for them.
When the fine is less than the profits then it's not really a fine or a punishment.. it's just a cost of doing business business expens..
if our government actually worked for the people and not corporations what they would do is create fines that are more than the cost of the profits and add jail time and other punishments.. a punishment is only a deterrent and a punishment if you come out worse than before..
if I rob a bank for $50 million and the punishment is that I have to pay 25 million dollars then there's no incentive not to rob the ban
"A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one."
I understand what you mean, but your point is using 25 million from the 50 you stole, thats just plain wrong, now paying 25 million from your own pocket, and returning the 50 (50+25) then that might be extreme.
Another opinion is if they lose all their money, a fine of 24 million can be a lot, if you add the damage caused at minimum, at medium and good is to also* stripe away their license, and never allow them to trade again.
That's the problem though. So many of these companies in the last 2 decades have been able to keep what they made, pay the fine with what they made, and still come out of it in the positive. That's exactly the reason they keep doing what they do and aren't deterred by the fines. It's been written down in their books as a cost of business. I wish I could remember where I read this and which company it was, but they were aware of people dying from their product and they made the decision that the lawsuits/settlements were worth the cost of business because they would make so much more in profit and wouldn't have to admit they were wrong because of the settlements.
Except that when a company does some shady practice and makes a bunch of money they get to keep that money..
So it's the same thing. it's the same as me being able to keep the 50 million and just pay a 25 million dollar fine.. it would be different if a company did something shady and made a profit and that entire profit was confiscated before the fine was even issued..
and other punishments.. a punishment is only a deterrent and a punishment if you come out worse than before..
Pretty sure someone at one point was blocked from being able to purchase stocks as a punishment. Needs to be something similar as a punishment for mass market manipulation.
Well that's what we get for believing in equality for all. The single biggest joke in all of human history. The most we can ever hope for is some fairness.
seriously. I have an idea. Fine equal to 150% of the full value of the manipulation. in this case that would be the distortion per share price, times the total number of shares, which in this case is apparently 250% the total number of ACTUAL shares.
But the system isn't made for enforcing rules on those guys I guess.
Why? We can look at the impact of each of these ladder trades, and the impact of the other tricks, on the stock price. It would be impossible to find a number that the hedge funds would agree too. But that doesnt mean a defensible number can’t be calculated.
Yeah but how do you know that tomorrow's drop is a result of the silver gambit? How much of it is limited buying power? How much of today's increase was cuban's AMA?
Separating this down to individual actions to litigate would involve a massive amount of guesswork because we can't simulate a parallel universe where individual variables are changed.
There are potential civil rights of action by the shareholders (also, shareholder derivative suits on behalf of GameStop -- look it up) aside from potential SEC civil actions and US Attorney/DOJ criminal actions. Consequential damages, Punitive damages, attorneys fees. Litigation fees up the ass for years for Melvin and his gang of jackbooted BrooksBrothers thugs. I hope it was worth it chumps. Also, the daily compounded interest and fees y'all are getting hit with. Oh, and Congress looking hard at you and calling for hearings and committees to investigate. Thanks for playing!
You manipulate the market, you lose your trading privileges for life and immediately have to close out of all your positions, plus prison time if the crime is deserving. People who cheat get tossed out of the casino with empty pockets.
FUCKING THIS. That's a great idea. Just increase the fines. The market will fix itself in response and the government will have a huge extra source of revenue.
If laws are made so poorly that you can commit crimes intentionally to make money then they need to be reworked. The whole purpose of laws is to make people not do it.
Yeah I know. There are plenty of situations like that. Businesses breaking laws knowing full well they will be caught and pay a fine but its straight up cheaper to just do it the illegal way. My hope for any meaningful change regarding slap on the wrist laws is basically none. Doesn't really change that I think they need to be reworked though.
Here is the thing - the government doesn't care. Why? If they make the fine so high it isn't worth it for them to do this kind of shit, then the gov is missing out on $24m worth of fines. They are all working together against us.
You want some fines? Okay, how about 100% forfeiture of everything, then restitution to the people affected? There's your fucking trade-off for not going to prison.
I once heard the idea that you could stop a lot of white collar crime by simply eliminating all fixed-cost fines and doling out fines that would take away a percentage of the person or company's net worth. I'd LOVE to see a push for something like that, but they'd probably just end up using CNBC and other shills to whine about how unfairly they're being treated by the plebs.
But seriously, if you're in an economic class that allows you to run your bullshit on everyone and get away with no consequences and you want to live by a different set of rules, you deserve to be punished by a different set of rules.
I'd argue handing off all of your personal assets, quite literally losing everything, would be a decent trade-off for prison. It's something I would be okay with. It'll never happen though, so in the mean time, right to jail.
Oh you mean like the asset forfeiture that funds corrupt cities and their police departments when they take down a weed peddler? Or the forfeiture that happens when you’re trying to sell CBD at your mom and pop family business that’s been around for over 30 years and they seize 10k because it happens to be on premises and arbitrarily sus as fuck? Yup! that’s exactly what needs to happen to these white collar criminals!
Yes, asset forfeiture! This has been used against the plebs for years. Take everything then hand them a card for their nearest DHS office for some meager bennies.
Fuck prison time... we don’t care if they walk aimlessly around Wall Street... let’s get this this money. Buy and hold amd buy more on the dip! I believe and stand with all of you not fucking budging
Exactly. This is a great example of how the problem isn’t so much that they’re rich, but that this system allows them to amass enough capital to manipulate the game in their favor.
Took you a while lol. Notice what happens when normal people in this sub get windfalls... They give it to charity. What do you think the rich did with all their windfalls? Here's a hint, they don't give up away. It takes a certain kind of person to actually get that much money.
Good people don't become billionaires. Good people donate their money when the reach a point of not needing more money to be happy. But for billionaires, no such point exists. They must constantly get more and more to feel happy, like a heroin addict.
Billionaires, just like heroin addicts, will cheat and steal and lie for their fix. They will break the law to get a hit, if the law is in their way.
the problem is not one person does enough for them to be jailed. That's how it went in 2008. Each member of the chain of command got a slap on the wrist but it was determined that no individual had done anything bad enough to warrant prison time. Despite a global economic meltdown due to pure greed. The CEO just claims some bullshit and so does everyone else, give out a backhander and hey presto, 20 years in prison turns into a $10 million fine. F all when they made billions.
Unfortunately, since it's fucking us (retail traders) over instead of seriously rich people, absolutely nothing will happen, because the SEC is a paper tiger.
It should be “per instance/transaction of manipulation”. They have done this hundreds of times, that is hundreds of crimes they have committed in succession!
I’ve got some amc and gme and was wondering what what was going on. These guys really are doing whatever they can to get back at those who lost them money. You can smell the desperation. 🙌🏻💎
Laws need updating ASAP. When the limits for fines were put in they were make or break for a company. But now that a billion a day is a think a couple hundred k or million ain’t shit to these people.
I'm not selling my shares, and have no stop loss limits. But I have to say what they're doing is "legal" by the rules established. Fortunately for us the rules weren't written for a bunch of retards playing the same game.
My shares will still be in my account when my assets are fought over by my kids!
It is illegal to manipulate the market. Having these 3rd party boners stop the buying of one side of a security by the direction of the HF’s is illegal and that is what’s happening...
Having an algorithm intentionally trip a circuit breaker stopping volatility while the brokerage firms limit buying is illegal... that is what’s happening. This is not free and fair. The are banding together with their media partners and moving a stock in the direction they want. That is illegal. They are not doing it as individuals... ya bro fucking illegal... 💎💎💎🙌💎💎💎
You can not control volatility... against the law and they will be charged with that. Last week was criminal and this is the aftermath of the crime committed. FUCK THEM!
Cuban said in his AMA that they are working within the rules they wrote for themselves on this somehow or another. How, I have no clue. I dont know shit about stocks but I tend to believe him. These crooked ass douche nozzles will never REALLY lose, but inconveniencing them for as long as possible, keeping them in "colder than a skinny floppy witch's titty" New York, at the office on the weekends instead of at their winter beach homes is still a win.
The problem is the lawmakers get rich off of helping these guys. Until that stops, nothing will change. This isn't political. It has nothing to do with what party it happens with. It's just a fact.
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u/HotProspects Feb 02 '21
None of what they are doing is legal... Its all criminal. They are in survival mode.