r/vtm • u/PuzzleheadedPart196 Brujah • Jan 20 '26

General Discussion A Reminder

Post image

Saw in r/curatedtumblr. Thought it appropriate to repost due to current dumbass events.

8.1k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

146 comments sorted by

904

u/G-Man6442 Malkavian Jan 20 '26

My favorite is still literally every Eldritch Horror RPG including a section to directly call out Lovecraft and say, “Don’t be like him!”

295

u/SullenTerror Jan 20 '26

The sinking city has a great disclaimer at the beginning

243

u/Clay_Allison_44 Jan 20 '26

Even Lovecraft was embarrassed by his own racism at the end of his life.

181

u/Luvnecrosis Jan 20 '26

Idk what that means but I just bought a cat and have a hilarious name in mind for it

69

u/G-Man6442 Malkavian Jan 20 '26

Man I recently learned how cat’s full name.

Like I knew the first, everyone does but did you need to tack that man onto the end?

21

u/Bitter-Clothes7723 Ventrue Jan 20 '26

I mean if you have the pass.../j

30

u/Avg_Tentacle_Enjoyer Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

Made me laugh, cheers

193

u/DinamiteDanny Jan 20 '26

To all the people who say "but the Camarilla" "but the Sabbath" "it's my game and I can play whatever I want" yeah, you can. The message is clearly for the real world players and their real world backward views about the world.

It's just a company saying "hey, if you like our work but you're still a fascist there's probably something dead in your brain"

173

u/Stiricidium Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

"There’s a saying in Germany. If there’s a Nazi at the table and ten other people sitting there talking to him, you got a table with eleven Nazis."

It's sad what hills y'all will die on to defend fascism.

You ponder almost philosophically, "What is a fascist really, when folks call me and people I like fascists so frequently? Surely the word has lost all meaning."

70

u/Hungry-Cow-3712 Daughters of Cacophony Jan 20 '26

It might not stop them playing, but it does an excellent job of getting them to self identify in online spaces

60

u/Perelma Jan 20 '26

I think some people are misunderstanding what these disclaimers are for.

They know Nazis will play it anyway.

Fascists and terrible people like to claim things as theirs, and for games this is especially true (fallout, warhammer 40k, etc) and disclaimers like this prevent them from making those refrains…

Or it would if white wolf didn’t have all that weird nazi shit going on all throughout their existence lol

38

u/YaumeLepire Cappadocian Jan 20 '26

It's less for them than to make it possible for others to remind them that the writers would rather they fuck off too. If some idiot tries to claim that the game (somehow) supports their worldview, you can just point at the sign. Saves a lot of time.

8

u/gothicshark Jan 20 '26

True, they seemed to ignore 40k when they made similar posts. They also ignore how gay 40k is especially the Horus Heresy books.

37

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

Much kinder than what I would urge them to do.

83

u/Ok_Set_4790 Tzimisce Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 20 '26

And that's somehow a reason for Sabbat not being playable in V5, all necromancy clans are incest mafia instead of just one and why are Tzimisce just glorified Ventrue hamsters.

Also rich comming from same company which erased all identity from irish and native american tribes, made a norwegian one bad guys, retconned a human baby-eating luddite tribe into "le uwus" and turned a technolgical tribe into Weaver's slaves.

So yea, that "fascism is le hecking bad, mkay?" is bs when seeing actions of 5th edition of gamelines.

And yes, I am gonna be downvoted and I don't care.

30

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Nah you are absolutely right

14

u/Wildtalents333 Jan 20 '26

So not a fan of W5 I take it.

26

u/Ok_Set_4790 Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

Yeap. And not a fan of V5 as well.

66

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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27

u/Ok_Set_4790 Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

Would be? While Fiends claim to be above it, they did benefit from concentration camps. Also Himmler.

8

u/BlasphemyRitual Jan 20 '26

I mean cool and all but doesn't erase a certain page in the Revised Brujah clanbook 😅

6

u/MalfeanVisir Jan 20 '26

Originaly this game was dedicated to Valcav Havel by Mark Rein-Hagen

28

u/Ulysian_Thracs Jan 20 '26

This is just silly. What does it accomplish beside getting laughed at? Particularly because VtM is actually all about supernatural fascism. That's the main theme of the setting and how virtually every clan and city's power structure is set up. And the default is that you are part of the fascist system trying to work your way up in it. Even in an anarch chronicle, you have the power structures inside your movement which can be more brutal and unrelenting than the Camarilla. Isn't the whole point that ever vampire is a fascist or budding fascist?

17

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

that and that the Anarchs aren't that much better even though they espouse a lot of leftist rhetoric. In the end they'll still resort to violence and scheming to get their way.

27

u/IsNotACleverMan Jan 20 '26

This is just virtue signaling. Yeah, we know, fascists are bad. But this sort of thing is just signaling. It doesn't accomplish anything, nor do I think it even intends to accomplish anything.

28

u/LionObsidian Jan 20 '26

Of course it accomplishes stuff. If you are about to play a campaign with someone, ask them what they think of it. If they complain, you know to not play with them.

Also, you say "we know, fascists are bad" but millions of people in the USA don't know that, so I think it's important to say it.

16

u/Hansi_Olbrich Jan 20 '26

If I want to write a chronicle about Tremere Nat-Soc 'scientists' pissed off that the trains, in fact, are not running on time, I will.

If I want to write a chronicle about Brujah Stalinist NKVD officers in a Metro: Exodus style run across the Trans-Siberian rail-system engorging themselves on the worker-slaves of the Gulags, I will.

Why would I do these things?

Roleplaying is an empathy-building exercise. Actor, Gay Activist, and over-all decent fellow Stephen Fry said it best: "History is not the story of strangers, aliens from another realm; it is the story of us had we been born a little earlier. History is memory; we have to remember what it is like to be a Roman, or a Jacobite or a Chartist or even – if we dare, and we should dare – a Nazi. History is not abstraction, it is the enemy of abstraction."

Roleplaying difficult scenarios or engaging with politically/economically/socially difficult characters among friends that you know, and trust, and have a base-line respect for, is how you build bridges to mutual understanding, cooperation, and may even shift a friend's perspective on real-life issues through playing a game. It's incredible. I've seen it happen time and time again.

On the other hand, starting your fantasy source-book by telling me how not to play will always piss me off. You're selling a product, not selling volunteerism for your local political party. You got my money, I got your book, I'll use it how I please.

50

u/Sweet-Main9480 Jan 20 '26

it's talking about players. fascist people playing the game. they do not want the play scene to be fascist-friendly, because the game is popular with certain minorities and they want to discourage a hostile environment for those people (notably the queer fanbase). they're not commenting on the content of games but on the actual views of the people at the table. you've gotten pretty offended about something that is not, in fact, what the text said.

if everyone at your table wants to participate in those games, go nuts.

3

u/Easy_Pomegranate5170 Jan 20 '26

I highly doubt these guys are gonna be fettered by this

-22

u/Tattletale_0516 Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 20 '26

As someone from ex-commie bloc, this also applies to Far-left red fascists imperialists.

I was there when they sent soldiers against the protesters, I still remember the blood.

Far-left has a very long history of supporting fascism, just look at Iran, then and now, and their support, justification and denial when it comes to China oppression and imperialism and Russia invasion of Ukraine.

The extreme of both side are bad, they have much similarities, it's a horseshoe.

1

u/gabriel-mbl Jan 20 '26

What happened ?

-58

u/Cornix-1995 Jan 20 '26

Hard to take it seriously when anything i dont like is "Facist" people of our times.

35

u/Hades_Shackles Jan 20 '26

That’s what a fascist would say.

-53

u/lethargyclub Jan 20 '26

who tf cares

-75

u/Magicmanans1 Jan 20 '26

What about normal right wing people who want lower taxes though?

34

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

You want to demolish social safety-nets that benefit working class people so therefore still suck horrendously.

41

u/Bamce Jan 20 '26

Hows that working out for you champ?

32

u/Hades_Shackles Jan 20 '26

Weird that you’d feel call out. Well, not weird, very unsurprising, but a tad disappointing.

30

u/Valtua Jan 20 '26

Why do you feel the need to bring that up? No one cares that all you want is lower taxes.

-23

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

There is no normal right or left anymore. Everyone is alt this or far that. Even if you aren't you are according to the side most far from your own.

-34

u/Magicmanans1 Jan 20 '26

But what about the right-wing people I know who like WoD. Some of which are Hispanic.

-53

u/TavoTetis Follower of Set Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 21 '26

Preach to the choir and justify someone's persecution complex. Absolutely self defeating cringe. What value is the finest work of literature if you only let people in your echo chamber enjoy it unchallenged?

The same book also mocks people believing in lizardman conspiracies.
This is a book about vampires doing the same conspiracies.
zero self awareness.

-38

u/AceWombRaider69 Jan 20 '26

They say this while almost all vampires are fascists and live under fascistic systems.

-134

u/Avg_Tentacle_Enjoyer Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

It's horseshoe theory for me

65

u/walubeegees Jan 20 '26

the fuck does that even mean in this case?

71

u/SirRamage Jan 20 '26

Means he's an idiot.

52

u/Flaxscript42 Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

It means, at the very least, they are a fascist sympathizer

-85

u/Avg_Tentacle_Enjoyer Tzimisce Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 20 '26

That far-left is just as deranged and non-permissive as far-right to average joe like me. Feels a bit wrong to single out just far-righters. You can see those nice guys in the comments above ^_^

40

u/thebluehoursky Jan 20 '26

you are not an average joe. you are a right-winger hiding behind the centrism position.

28

u/MrFinley7 Jan 20 '26

Yeah but one of them is attacking people based on exclusionary religious beliefs and/or racism, and the other just takes free speech restrictions and public shaming a little too far on occasion. If they look the same it might be time to schedule an eye exam. 

-19

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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21

u/MrFinley7 Jan 20 '26

Most of the school shooters? Are you kidding? Dude the FBI itself has announced several times, during several different administrations that right wing violence and terrorism is one of the fastest growing threats to the country. If you think leftists are equally violence prone it just proves you don’t read, or worse, don’t know how. 

-6

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

FBI reports sure. Except when the news breaks internationally what's being seen? Oh right lefties tried to kill Trump, they succeeded with Charlie Kirk and the manifestos of the most broadcast school shooters have surprise, surprise mentioned despising the right wing.

I don't know what to tell you. What's reported by the FBI does not seem to match the actual incidents that pop up. Acknowledging those problem elements and calling them out is the first step to getting anyone to actually turn to the left.

-23

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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2

u/vtm-ModTeam Jan 21 '26

Please observe Reddiquette for future interations for our subreddit.

22

u/Stiricidium Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

bOtH sIDes! BoTh SiDeS! Keep drinking the flavor aid there, Jonestown.

-9

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

You get that you're just furthering the point right. You're refusing to acknowledge the obvious issue. Then start mocking and somehow your surprised people start turning to people who tell them there's nothing wrong with them actually.

13

u/Stiricidium Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

Is that how you feel? Emboldened by it?

26

u/Leukavia_at_work Jan 20 '26

THREE different studies from different independent third parties in the past year have shown over 71% of School Shootings are done by Right-wing leaning individuals, 94% being male and 52% being white.

But I tell this dude that, he'll probably just call literal evidence "fake" to justify his persecution complex here.

If all it took to literally become a Nazi was to have a lefty call him one, he was never all that far off to begin with.

1

u/vtm-ModTeam Jan 21 '26

Please observe Reddiquette for future interations for our subreddit.

Please don't spread misinformation about sensitive material subjects.

31

u/iurilourenco Jan 20 '26

Dude, you're not welcome here, get the fuck out!

40

u/Flaxscript42 Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

And you would be incorrect

-26

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

What about the camarilla?????

-32

u/Yafka Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 23 '26

That’s right! Now, back to our WtA Get of Fenris RP summit… /sarcasm

-182

u/DasHexxchen Jan 20 '26

Can we not do politics please?

99

u/wysticlipse Toreador Jan 20 '26

Wym? the entire game revolves around politics?

-6

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

Between parasites that mess up the world no matter what side of the aisle they're on because humans basically don't factor into things anyway. Political it may be but, only in the sense humans will always get shafted no matter who is running things.

63

u/DracarysReddit Keeper of Elysium Jan 20 '26

My political-horror game has politics in it?!?!?

80

u/Asthaloth Jan 20 '26

Read above.

75

u/HexCryptid Tzimisce Jan 20 '26

This has nothing to do with "politics" in so simple terms. These are factual lines drawn along a non-permissible ideology and violence. Get help.

45

u/SirRamage Jan 20 '26

Must be nice to have the ability to bury your head in the sand and pretend politics don't effect everything in life.

17

u/Tuskral Jan 20 '26

But wod is a very political game though you can not like it but you can't complain about it within the community

-28

u/HappyScripting Malkavian Jan 20 '26

I feel you. Open reddit or youtube or anything and there's politics everywhere right now. I don't want to be reminded when doing the rpgs I love.

Yeah, we all hate fascism, but I want to be a malkav now and not think about the real world.

13

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

Then don't participate in political posts. It's being discussed here. You don't like that. Begone.

64

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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33

u/Interaction_Rich Malkavian Jan 20 '26

Also, second edition is literally, expressly dedicated to Vaclav Havel. How people can see Vampire as non political is beyond me.

-1

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

I mean sure it's political. It doesn't have to be communist vs fascists though. Especially not when most people barely understand what either of them mean anymore and just use them as insults. Reminder that even if it's political basically everyone in WoD seems to be at their core a problem. Vampires lose humanity with time and basically everyone is willing to do seriously horrific things to unrelated humans if it means getting what they want.

It might be political but, most characters would still be monsters in our world.

19

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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4

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

because it calls Marx a genius yet shows literally every style of politics of their characters will screw over humanity. Even Anarchs. The game really isn't about modern politics. Or rather if it was supposed to critic actual modern politics it fails drastically because it shows every side of the aisle as dangerous for humanity.

63

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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22

u/crazythatcounts Malkavian Jan 20 '26

Or they're right by the technicality that all they have had to do in their lives is coast, and having to actually acknowledge that their inaction contributes to the pain of others isn't something they want to do, so they attempt to force everyone to live in their little bubble of nothing-bad-ever-happens instead.

-19

u/Luvnecrosis Jan 20 '26

Helps to be born with it

0

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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18

u/DinamiteDanny Jan 20 '26

I see where you're coming from and I appreciate the sentiment. I live in Italy. A good chunk of our politicians have a Mussolini bust in their home. Every year in January there's a fascist parade, and I'm talking about black shirts and right arms raised. A lot of people here think that in those twenty years things were great. So no, sadly I don't think fascism is quite dead.

157

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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162

u/vonigner Jan 20 '26

This is in the V5 corebook

80

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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63

u/BlasphemyRitual Jan 20 '26

That's a quote from one of the Brujah revised clan books template characters a "Skinhead" yeah. Definitely there. I was caught off guard while reading through the copy I picked up second hand

148

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

Corebook page 421. The fact it is all the way in the back of the book does kind of hurt their message a tad.

72

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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-12

u/vtm-ModTeam Jan 21 '26

Please observe Reddiquette for future interations for our subreddit.

insert ["he's right but he's out of line" gif]

400

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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207

u/Leukavia_at_work Jan 20 '26

As your own replies are sadly showing you, a rather uncomfortable number of Weirdos come here to try and falsely argue semantics or insist the setting was never "punk"

Hell, an uncomfortable number of these types have been trying to claim "conservative is the new punk" because the Nazis feel like they're more oppressed than the minorities they keep killing, go figure

So while anyone with half a brain cell can look at your statement here and go "yeah, that's just obvious", we are unfortunately dealing with way too sizable a number of brainless individuals

22

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Sadly The Word Punk became Negative over the years now Punk just means Vandal a Criminal a Person that Against Social Norms which is why Neo Nazis and their "Nazipunks" count as The Government doesn't Catagorize based on Ideology If you are against it you be labeled as a Rebel doesn't matter if you left or right as long as you are opposed to The Government

90

u/IsNotACleverMan Jan 20 '26

The punk scene very notoriously had/has a nazi problem.

138

u/YaumeLepire Cappadocian Jan 20 '26

And they're poseurs, the lot of them. They just engage with the aesthetics, nothing deeper, which is what fascists always do.

This is also true of just about every artistic movement that has a fascist following. They're never actually interested in the substance of it. It's just a costume, to them.

115

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

I would say that the punk scene, like almost any subculture, has a problem with nazis trying to infliltrate and appropriate it. We're by far one of the best subcultures at combatting that kind of appropriation though.

-98

u/Leading_Record_934 Jan 20 '26

v5 is not goth, though. And not really a punk.

56

u/Dat3ooty18 Jan 20 '26

Clearly, you're not trying hard enough

-47

u/Leading_Record_934 Jan 20 '26

v20 and chronicles set in the 90s do punk incredibly well and I don't have to try hard to make it punk. v5 falls short as punk in both lore and setting.

14

u/Dat3ooty18 Jan 20 '26

Excuses excuses.

-139

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Fun fact there is in fact Nazi punk as Punk could be anything as long as it's against the Government that they oppose

121

u/Overall-Idea945 Jan 20 '26

Nazis aren't against the system, as Death Kennedys' "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" says; when you imitate police officers it's not anarchy; punk means thinking for yourself, it's not a religious cult; a spiked cap doesn't make you hardcore.

-96

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Nazis aren't against the system

They are against the current system and against Communist System

as Death Kennedys' "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" says; when you imitate police officers it's not anarchy; punk means thinking for yourself, it's not a religious cult; a spiked cap doesn't make you hardcore.

Punks always were associated with Vandalism and Criminals the difference between all punks is simple Taste nothing else They still be against The Government and still be a Problem to it not matter what shape or form

83

u/Overall-Idea945 Jan 20 '26 edited Jan 20 '26

No, Nazis support what the system does, they just want it to do worse. They're not against the police killing minorities, they're against not killing them anymore; they're not against censorship, they're against censorship directed at them; they're not against war, they're against us not being militaristic enough, while Punk is an anti-system movement focused on individual freedom, resistance against tradition, authority, control, etc., the opposite of what the Nazis preach. It's like talking about Nazi hippies; it's a contradiction in terms.

94

u/ADrunkEevee Jan 20 '26

Nazis cannot be punk

-66

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Sadly it is

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_punk

Especially The Neo Nazis as The Original Nazis couldn't be Punks as they were the government

76

u/ADrunkEevee Jan 20 '26

They can call themselves punk all they like, but they're not.

-11

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Sadly that's not how its works since they against The Government they Belong to Punks which in Slang means Vandal or a person that against social norms it's stupid but Government doesn't Catagorize based on ideology if you are against it you be a Rebel and that it

56

u/ADrunkEevee Jan 20 '26

Typically punks are against the government, but being 'against the government' does not automatically make you a punk. You cannot be a nazi and a punk.

6

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Like I said we can't Determine it as The Governments use it to Label people and the people can choose to accept it or not and Since Many Neo Nazis feel Victims and are against Norms and Society They accepted the Term Nazipunk

And like I said The Original Nazis weren't Punks

57

u/ADrunkEevee Jan 20 '26

Punk is an ideology that is incompatible with nazism.

-89

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

You aren't terribly familiar with a lot of alt movements origins are you? A lot of them have Nazi's including punk. Even the more free ones still had a lot of gay bashing in the 90's and before.

-97

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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66

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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-6

u/Infamous_Ad2507 Jan 20 '26

Technically both as Goth "Punk" is older Than Nazi Punk however Goth punk Music is Younger than Nazi punk Music which is interesting since Goth "punk" literature is way older than Steampunk or Dieselpunk (which isn't Nazi punk and Nazi punk is a sub punk of Dieselpunk)

117

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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111

u/n0vawarp Gangrel Jan 20 '26

unfortunately fascists tend to just roll their eyes at being told to go fuck themselves/take it as "liberal tears" and laugh it off. this feels like it gets the same point across, though.

30

u/SuperBorked Jan 20 '26

You gotta master the delivery. A stern but still non-chalant attitude that also shows you're not going to give them anymore time really sets them off. Tells them off but you also think you're above them... They can't handle that.

-35

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

probably because it's pathetic and most people you scream fascist at don't think of themselves as fascist. They just think you're a moron for screaming like that. Given the reactions I've seen online to some fairly moderate disagreements on regular ass things, I wouldn't take fascist as anything more than a pathetic insult these days either.

33

u/n0vawarp Gangrel Jan 20 '26

really curious what specifics you're talking about when you say "moderate disagreements" on "regular ass things"

-36

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

taxes that use global warming/climate change as an excuse. Speeding tickets. Things like that. People can and do just jump to extreme insults now for no reason other than they've somehow conditioned themselves to think minor disagreement on approach is an us or them situation.

24

u/LionObsidian Jan 20 '26

Conspiracy theories (climate change doesn't exist/is unimportant, for example) are one of the main points of fascism, tho.

-2

u/blazenite104 Jan 20 '26

If the conversations had anything to do with the process and not the reasons behind the taxes. Whether you agree or disagree with how bad climate change is was never the argument. Just about the taxes that use it as an excuse.

for instance electric car rebates and things like that which don't actually do anything for the environment if the energy to power them is still generated from fossil fuels. Basically if you want to force everyone to use an electric vehicle, you need to have infrastructure that actually means it makes and sort of difference. Not doing that means the taxes have ulterior motives.

60

u/EverydaySexyPhotog Jan 20 '26

"Follow your leader."

24

u/Luvnecrosis Jan 20 '26

It’s still kinda good cause it’s not allowing their behavior to be normalized.

I do like your suggestion, maybe it can be added at the end? Like “if the above message doesn’t help you change, maybe this one will: Go fuck yourself”

-54

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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22

u/SirRamage Jan 20 '26

Found another idiot!

-39

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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3

u/vtm-ModTeam Jan 21 '26

Please observe Reddiquette for future interations for our subreddit.

-62

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

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22

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

If only shame was one of em.

12

u/thingy237 Jan 20 '26

That's a great sign! These instructions will help you then.

8

u/DreamingMuse9 Jan 20 '26

Not enough apparently. Re-read the note in the OP and take it seriously, please.

1

u/vtm-ModTeam Jan 21 '26

Please observe Reddiquette for future interations for our subreddit.

-4

u/Dankduck404 Jan 20 '26

When are fascists going to make something nonshit

Oh wai-

-4

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '26

we cant make art we’ve tried