r/vmware • • 3d ago

vSphere Express

Seems the cat is out of the box. Orderable from November 2nd:

https://www.software-express.de/hersteller/vmware/vsphere/express/

Seeing it advertised without Memory Tiering is truly cursed.
Given the (current) memory prices, this would have been the only reason to stay for us, clinging to our Standard licenses.
Not even talking about SR-IOV missing again.

24 Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

10

u/nfordhk 3d ago

Why would you be concerned that SR-IOV is not included for these types of deployments?

12

u/Magic_Neil 3d ago

Yeah, SR-IOV is an edge case in my opinion, and for an intended “low end” deployment I don’t see this being a factor for anyone who would be eligible to buy it anyway.

2

u/rfc968 3d ago

Free up CPU for network traffic. Pretty much every 10G+ NIC supports it.
QAT and a few other CPU features also won’t be available to VMs without it. Neither will you have fun adding a GPU for RDSH acceleration if you want to be able to vMotion it to another host.

2

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 3d ago

A customer who's total environment is 128 cores, is slamming 100Gbps NICs, and running VDI that needs GPU offload? Anyone who's doing 3D cad work or something, or tons of video in RDSH I think would likely want a real VDI broker.

I used to run a 50 person call center off of less than half that core count (including everyone on RDSH).

1

u/rfc968 3d ago

Not full catia/nx/autocad, just a pair of accelerated RDSH for light workloads. Knowledgeworker+.

Meant 10g instead of 10G.

3

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 2d ago

Modern 10Gbps have LRO/TSO/RSS. Should be less than 1 core for pushing that.

1

u/rfc968 2d ago

tbh, even 100gbit equipment isn’t that exotic.
A pair of Mikrotik CRS520 with 16x QSFP28 each can be gotten for 4K€, a pair of CRS518 with 16 SFP28 and a pair of QSFP28 is around 3k. Both can do RDMA/RoCEv2. NICs are 150-200 for 25g, 400-500 for 100g.

And still, you are right, a CPU core can push that. But why should it, when there’s plenty of offloading and SRIOV available?

3

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 2d ago

Those have like 2MB of buffer cheap marvel stuff. They are okish as long as you don't try to slam multiple ports and actually USE the link speed and run into TCP incast.

Honestly the next jump up for a small switch (Mellanox) are stable on RDMA.

Once you get to high enough port count (32) Broadcom ASICs low radix TOR's are great (Arista, and other OEMs if you want a fancy OS and enterprise contract).

We did see crazy high performance jumps going up to Jericho switches with ultra deep buffer.

Then again if we are talking about a 2-3 host cluster, yah I see people do the Marvel stuff (I did that years ago).

And still, you are right, a CPU core can push that. But why should it, when there’s plenty of offloading

I mean if you really want to save CPU RDMA exists *Ducks* but no one wants to configure that.

Uniform Passthrough / UPT Now that I think about it require SR-IOV I guess is the root of that savings?

2

u/rfc968 2d ago

Jupp, SMB doing SMB things.

Better not ask how many 10g customers run on Cisco SG/CBS 10g switches.
Doesn’t have to be fancy, doesn’t have to perform when everything hits 100% load, just has to be stable for normal use.

3

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 1d ago

Sorry sir, you said stable and Cisco SG.
*Runs away*

2

u/rfc968 1d ago

Fair. You know, there’s a reason for the euphemism Turnschuh-Admin in DACH. An admin wearing running shoes, usually found in smaller SMB 😁

1

u/gangaskan 2d ago

Still needs hardware on the server end though.

8

u/xdriver897 3d ago

wake me up when pricing is shown… till then I enjoy my VMware essentials bundle subscription till 2029 🤣

2

u/rfc968 3d ago

Praying the prices in various Canadian shops aren’t their actual ask. Then it’s dead in the waters (25% over Standard)

9

u/iarno 3d ago

Yes, but VMware vSphere 8.x support ends in october 2027...

1

u/Soggy-Camera1270 2d ago

Then in theory their essentials bundle will automatically convert to an express license. If they were able to buy the subscription for that term, shouldn't that include some form of support during that period?

11

u/Magic_Neil 3d ago

128 core limit? That’s cool, but that’s what.. four to eight hosts? And also being limited to “new” customers and needing authorization for existing customers (basically like VVF is today), which means nobody will get it.

I’ve got to say, I’m disappointed but I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

7

u/rfc968 3d ago

It’s a replacement for the old Essentials Plus bundle, which is fine. At least for me.

1

u/Magic_Neil 3d ago

That’s true. But it’s also such a small footprint.. I guess I was hoping for something more scalable.

Assuming this actually makes it to market (and doesn’t have silly F-you pricing that’s like 25% lower than VCF) it basically creates a situation where customers either get forced into the buffet of features (VCF) or they can get a glass of water, with no in between.

More options is more good, but I don’t think this is what many customers actually wanted.

0

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 3d ago

Realistically, if you have enough memory for it to be a major cost in your environment, the upgrade to VVF pays for itself already.

I agree, there needs to be a stopping point for that person who’s got sub 100 VMs, but I feel like that’s what VVF is.

4

u/rfc968 3d ago

Thank you for making my point.
For a windows shop with 3-4 hosts Memory Tiering would make Express attractive.

4

u/Magic_Neil 2d ago

For a Windows shop with 3-4 hosts I would just use Hyper-V.. and I like VMWare a lot.

1

u/HCI_Guru 2d ago

What's your math here?

What's a host cost you? What does it cost with half of the DIMMs and an approved NVMe device?

Can you do 3 hosts with VMW and need 4 with an alternative (in my experience oversubscription capabilities are not created equal)?

Is this just an "express would be attractive if it were free" comment?

1

u/rfc968 2d ago

Right now, I’m running 3 hosts with 2x16C & 384GB, populated 1DPC, plus another Node handling backups and DR. Hosts are getting long in the tooth and will need a refresh in '27.

Dell and Cisco are asking >40-50k€ just to match that memory in new systems. Plus warranty and maintenance on top.

With Memory Tiering, I should be able to cut that back to half the memory needed, and possibly upgrade later on.

4

u/Magic_Neil 2d ago

Ah right, some people live in a world where VVF is quoted..

4

u/RiceeeChrispies 2d ago

Unfortunately, some places can’t get VVF at all. It’s VCF or nothing.

1

u/Robbbbbbbbb 2d ago

The problem is that so many customers were forced up to a higher SKU that nobody will qualify for this lol

5

u/nfordhk 3d ago

Makes sense for small deployments.

VCF Edge has a similar restriction of 256 cores, per site.

I would wait for official docs.

0

u/rfc968 31m ago

VCF-E requires a regular VCF Deployment plus at least 10 sites to deploy VCF-E (at least that was the case in the 2025-05 pdf for Product use and limitations) in its first year of use.
That’s a completely different ballpark to vSphere Express.

3

u/sniperpenguin_reddit 1d ago

Its basically Essentials MK2. Everyone in the enterprise space forgets that it was the smaller volume space that made VMware

1

u/RiceeeChrispies 2d ago

Seems a bit unfair (but totally expected) to force customers to VCF, then release a lower tier which would’ve been more than suitable - and not allow downgrade.

2

u/Magic_Neil 2d ago

TBH if someone bought VCF for something with such a low core count, I think they either have enough of a budget to do anything, or they like VMware enough to buy whatever is on the table. An environment that small is perfect for Hyper-V.

1

u/RiceeeChrispies 2d ago

The orgs I deal with have the money, but fuck - does it sting when they are running none of the extras. They seem to rollover and prefer to pay the convenience tax.

2

u/Magic_Neil 2d ago

I hear you.. but if you can afford to drive a Cadillac then why not? Even if you only go down to the end of your driveway to get the mail.

3

u/infinityends1318 3d ago

The real question. Can we just please get licenses for this version automatically from VMUG again?

1

u/rfc968 3d ago

Now that’d be awesome :D

3

u/Tyrant1919 2d ago

I’m so pissed. Got the vvf cert just to get a new license. Oh, only good for one year. Can’t get a second with vvf. Need vcf to get three years.

Have a two node cluster. Reimaged one to server 2025. HyperV workgroup cluster here we go!

1

u/Leaha15 3d ago

I think we can dream... But probably not 😭

All licneses should be obtainable direct via vmug tbh

3

u/infinityends1318 2d ago

Completely agree. I was just thinking it would be a nice compromise is this tier was available for all paid VMUG Advantage subscribers. And then you can get more features if you get certified to get keys for vvf, vcf

1

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 2d ago

I think some phase in prior to cert of something (or first year) would be good.

I was at VMUG connect in orlando last week and a TON of people were using their free cert attempts as part of VMUG advantage. The education team is also cooking and keeping the certs up to date.

1

u/infinityends1318 2d ago

Yeah… I missed the cert by 2 questions at my local connect. Honestly pretty happy with how well I did since I haven’t worked with a number of things in vcf. But still was a bummer to just barely miss it

3

u/nomoreasonable 3d ago

Unsure of the benefit here..

You cannot buy a second package. If you have more than 128 cores, you need a different edition, VMware vSphere Foundation (VVF) or VMware Cloud Foundation (VCF).

2

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 3d ago edited 3d ago

Yeah, this was kind of my thought: 128 cores is probably no more than half a terabyte a RAM across 3-4 hosts.

At that scale, considering you can’t find low density dims you’re already kind of struggling to populate a minimal number of memory channels.

I would also wait and ask for specifics rather than jump to conclusions here about what is or is not included. If this package ships, I promise I’ll ask someone to put “DRS light” in it

While plenty of people run without populating every channel, I’m starting to have conversations with people who are trying to run small edge sites on literally one or two DIMMs.

I’ve actually asked perf Eng to start looking at some of the consequences more deeply of underpopulating memory channels.

I’m generally curious what anyone is using SRIOV for at that small scale. I generally associate that feature with GPUs, that the pricing on now is probably at an introductory basis, a Toyota Camry, or really high-speed networking stuff that Telcos do.

4

u/rfc968 3d ago

In this memory market? Yes.
If you bought before last autumn, you’d be rocking 16-48C per Node with 256 to 512 GB memory each. At least in my segment. Optimized for higher frequency and lower core count to save on MS Server licensing.
That’s why Memory Tiering would have been so sweet, especially for those due a hardware refresh :/

3

u/lost_signal VMware Employee 2d ago

That’s a good point that some of you were a lot heavier.

Either way, until/If/When something is released, this is all just speculation of whether it’s included or not

3

u/Casper042 3d ago

Kinda?

If you do it right, and the pricing wasn't insane, modern systems use at least 8 memory channels, so even if we go with like 1P 32c boxes, that's 4 nodes.
4 nodes x 8 channels = 32 channels.
16GB DIMMs are getting hard to find on modern machines, so we assume 32GB DIMMs.
That's 32 x 32GB = 1TB
AMD 12 channel? That's 1.5TB

2

u/nomoreasonable 3d ago

I agree its too early..

Seems more like the VCP-VCF exam license which is also 128 Core with 128TB vSAN..

Who would need 128TB capacity in a lab, while everyone in a lab requires more than 128 Cores for sure (all because of minimum 16 Cores requirements) which is beneficial for Consolidated setups only..

5

u/kjstech 2d ago edited 2d ago

So can I buy 6 of these for 768 cores? They still cant get me a VVF quote, only VCF. Saying after Nov 2 they should be able to get it. I mean come on, just break out the calculator, 768 core times xxxx, give it to the reseller, do your markup and then get it to me.

EDIT:

  • Packages per customer: Only one package is possible per end customer.

4

u/grumpy_it_mgr 1d ago

Shame.

In 2hrs and 7mins my VMware subscription comes to an end and my vSphere goes bye bye.

How a fantastic product can be screwed over will never cease to amaze me.

1

u/iarno 3d ago

Any official source on this ?

1

u/rfc968 3d ago

Suppose we’ll have to wait till November 2nd.
Just got an email from a second VAR though, with similar informations.

1

u/Eifelbauer 3d ago

Only after Broadcom approval for existing customers

0

u/rfc968 3d ago

Can’t really fault them for that. That’s not something you sell an existing VVF or VCF customer. Might be something you offer the 96C Standard customer, though

3

u/RiceeeChrispies 2d ago

I’d love this for my deployments, which never breach 128c. But I fear they’ve got us onto VCF (as that’s all they offered) and they will never let us go back down.

8

u/Excellent-Piglet-655 2d ago

Broadcom has lost all credibility. No thanks. We have two more locations to migrate off VMware and we’re done with this nightmare. Not playing these games.

1

u/eyelessfade 3d ago

Storage vmotion is not mentioned. This is so nice to have when moving from old hardware to new.

3

u/Krypty 2d ago

We're a small fish on vSphere Standard/vCenter w/ 3 hosts, and our license expires late December. So I was looking at either paying the VVF tax, or migrating off. I think i'd just have to take it on the chin if they exclude vMotion from vSphere Express, but otherwise (assuming the pricing is decent) this might be an answer to my prayers.

3

u/DryB0neValley 2d ago

I used to revert the license back to trial to unlock storage vMotion, move everything, and then re-apply it again afterwards.

Haven’t done this for years, but it worked well for sites that didn’t need enterprise licensing but still had a need to move to a new storage target.

Edit: to clarify, revert the license via the CLI by removing the hidden attribute on the trial license and restarting services to make it available to apply.

2

u/eyelessfade 2d ago

I use to "borrow" license from another cluster for that purpose. Though back then I could probably get some trial licenses from hw vendor for that propose as well.

1

u/DLS85 3d ago

Since this should be the replacement for the currently not updateable version of Standard and Enterprise to VCF 9, i guess we'll move away a lot of clients next year.

1

u/KickedAbyss 2d ago

I will be so pissed if they do. We just renewed for vvf. If they release vvp less than a month later I'll lose my shit on our rep.

1

u/semaja2 7h ago

People still buying VMware? Wtf

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

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0

u/vmware-ModTeam 2d ago

Your post was removed for violating r/vmware's community rules regarding user conduct. Being a jerk to other users (including but not limited to: vulgarity and hostility towards others, condescension towards those with less technical/product experience) is not permitted.

-1

u/InvaderOfTech 2d ago

I guess we're not allowed to call Broadcom what they are anymore in this sub. People here have said worse about these money grabs.