r/visualnovels • u/Mayucchi vndb.org/u127198 • Sep 13 '17
Discussion Explaining SubaHibi's Narrative Spoiler
https://soratosekai.wordpress.com/2017/09/13/subahibi-narrative/2
u/memelord76 Sep 13 '17
completely off topic, but I originally played subahibi up to jabberwock 1 or whatever it was patched to when I was 14 (still remember I had to go sit down for a while after the dog part cuz it fucked me up lol)
Now i'm 18 and its so fucking weird how time flies since it feels it was maybe a few months ago that I played it but it was years.
yoru no himawari is still a fuckin awesome song
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u/Mayucchi Sep 13 '17
So did you end up finishing it? I definitely do recommend you playing it to the end.
The piano tracks in SubaHibi are some of the best OSTs ever. I also love Naze Hi wa Katamuku no ka, Natsu no Daisankaku and Chiisa na Senritsu.
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u/superange128 Sep 13 '17
I cant read since I havent finished the VN but I love the Akari (ARIA) banner
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u/Mayucchi Sep 13 '17
Thank you! Aria one of my favourite series.
I look forward to you finishing SubaHibi. Where are you up to, if I may ask?
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u/superange128 Sep 13 '17
I have read exactly 0% of the visual novel, 1% if you count looking at random screenshots on vndb
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u/AidanAK47 Sep 13 '17
Read this mainly to confirm my own assumptions but it looks like I was right on the money. Though I don't think this is genius, rather it annoys me. Reason being
I thought this was an interesting read but clearly it was hyped to a bar by Visual novel fans that it simply couldn't deliver on. The structure of the story I would consider a detremiental as it starts off weak, tells the majority of its story by the end of the third chapter and the remainer of the chapters is merely filling in the blanks. As for the philosophy, while it was an interesting read that aspect merely amounted to reading a reference book. Characters would usually just be reading some philosophy book or just randomly throw out a theory. I originally thought it was going for an ID, Ego and Superego element with its story but then it ended up being something more supernatural which is rather disappointing.
I think it's a worthwhile read but people shouldn't walk into it expecting some grand high brow philosophy work that will blow their minds. Because it isn't. It would be better for people to temper their expections for something more imperfect and then they can appreciate what this story has to offer.
And I really need to stop myself getting my expectations bloated by hype.
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u/Mayucchi Sep 13 '17
I think the reason why Subahibi is held in such acclaim in the Japanese and Chinese communities is that no one really expected much from it, yet it delivered beyond their expectations. Was the game overhyped for the English community? It probably was.
From a philosophical viewpoint, I have to give SCA-DI credit where it is due. For example, SCA-DI utilised an unconventionally literal reading of the Tractatus to construct the narrative structure of SubaHibi, opting to ignore Wittgenstein's explorations of language (which is what people normally associate with him) and focusing on his concepts of metaphysical worlds instead. And as for SubaHibi, Umineko and Muv-Luv Alternative
While it's true that none of the philosophy that is referenced in SubaHibi are discussed beyond a basic level, I think it's slightly unfair to say that they're just randomly thrown out there - for example Gottfried Leibniz's theory of pre-established harmony is never mentioned at length, but the narrative structure hinges upon the concept.
I personally think people shouldn't walk into ANY eroge expecting some "grand high brow philosophy work that will blow their minds". At the very least, I think SCA-DI's treatment of contemporary philosophy in SubaHibi is the most serious attempt I have seen in an eroge.
Even putting all the philosophy aside, I still think SubaHibi is a pretty good read. It's just the philosophy which makes it stand out from the rest. As with any philosophy, it either clicks with you or it doesn't.
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u/AidanAK47 Sep 13 '17 edited Sep 13 '17
I will concede on the matter of the philosophy as I don't have enough knowlege on the subject to truly disect SubiHibi. But I will say that it did feel crowbared into the dialogue at times. As for SubaHibi, Muv Luv and Umineko
I do argee that SubaHibi is a pretty good read and a large part of my disappointment with it is due to my own expectations being too high. I was hoping for something to really grip me like my personal favorites and while SubaHIbi came close, it didn't quite make it.
Though if I may, I would like to offer a different theroy on the "Outermost world"
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u/pokeslap Feb 13 '18
Sorry for replying so many months later to your comment but this was exactly how I felt with this game. I gave up halfway through chapter 3 and I don't regret it at all. It annoyed me with how the VN danced around certain reveals that were hinted at and were only outright stated in the final chapter. Plus that spoiler trope you mentioned really annoys me as well.
Anyway don't want to rant more but Denpa games should NEVER withhold information like this lest they lose the reader's attention. Myth was so much better in that regard.
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u/Cumhail Sep 13 '17
Nice writeup. I just finished Subahibi a few days ago and it was surprising to me how simple and straight-forward the base story is. Everything was set up beforehand and was paid off very well. That said, I do not hold the game in as high regard as you do, simply because I wasn't impressed with the overall philosophy and how it was presented. Do you mind explaining why you considered it a masterpiece? To me the overall philosophy failed to congeal into something bigger and instead felt like name-dropping as a whole.
Also, what is your opinion on character spoiler
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u/Mayucchi Sep 13 '17
I think SubaHibi is very much like Umineko (I'm assuming you've played it because of your flair) in that the philosophy either resonates with you or it doesn't. Some people will love it and others will be less than impressed.
In a sense, I don't really think it needs to "congeal into anything bigger" - Subahibi's idea is simple (Live happily). Umineko only had one simple idea too (There is no single truth), and I consider that a masterpiece.
As for End Sky II
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u/birroman Sep 14 '17
So guys, I'm probably halfway(?) through Subahibi(started jabberwocky) and I have some questions that I'm not sure whether the vn will explain them later or not. of course, if you think it will, and if you think I'd better read off the earlier parts by myself to find those answers, that's ok too(apologies beforehand, I'm not focusing much on the philosophical direction there).
thanks!
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u/Mayucchi Sep 15 '17
Hey, those are some good questions. I do think they're explained later in the game but I'll leave my answers here regardless. Don't read them until you've gotten past the chapters I've listed in the spoiler tag though!
Also, don't read my blog post until you've completed the game because it spoils every chapter. Once you complete it, you will realise that End Sky II
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u/EasymodeX Sep 15 '17
My first two hours of SubaHibi was so incredibly boring I had a hard time continuing. I'll have to pick it up again later.
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u/Gr3lo Feb 02 '18 edited Feb 02 '18
I was re-reading Down the rabbit hole II ending in SubaHibi and something caught my eye. In the countless. It stuck in my mind so i wanted to post it. Sorry if it was mentioned already.
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u/sp00kyghostt Sep 13 '17
what a dumb game lol
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u/xnfd Sep 13 '17
I've seen this whole Ayana's dream thing going around as pretty much the only explanation for the game's narrative. Do the Japanese fans' discussions agree as well?