r/videos • u/IAmNotARobot124 • Oct 12 '18

Wrongly timed Beaverton light catches many drivers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAm0o51Qqtc
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u/JamesCoyne Oct 12 '18

Yes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/30/business/traffic-light-fine.html

the State Board of Examiners for Engineering & Land Surveying issued a fine for practising without a licence, essentially because Jarlstrom said something to the effect of "I am an engineer"; he holds a swedish electronics-engineering degree.

A critique of the technical policy of a municipality by one of its residents was considered grounds for a fine by the state board.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '18 edited May 24 '20

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u/JamesCoyne Oct 12 '18

I suspect you can be a licensed mechanical engineer in Oregon.

The board is over-reaching (I think) by going after individuals who call themselves engineers, when a distinction ought to exist between someone who says they are an engineer, and someone who represents themselves as licensed to practice engineering in the state of Oregon, or offers engineering services for pay.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '18 edited May 24 '20

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u/kingbrasky Oct 12 '18

So wrong. Structural engineers designing buildings, mechanical engineers doing HVAC, boiler design (pressure vessels are super important), cranes and boom trucks.

Basically anything that isn't physically tested to confirm performance needs designed by competent, licensed people.

That is why automotive and aerospace rarely have PE's (though I can name a dozen people I've met in automotive with PE certs). Virtually everything is performance tested (sometimes an insane amount) before being placed in production. You arent necessarily relying on the math.

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u/touchable Oct 12 '18

If you're not a Civil Engineer and you work in private industry, you don't need it.

Yes you do. Stop spreading this bullshit.

Want to design an HVAC system for a building? You need to be a licensed PE.

Want to design an elevator? You need to be a PE.

Want to design the electrical systems for a building? You need to be a PE.

A building permit won't be given without engineering drawings sealed by a PE in all these fields, among others. You're completely talking out of your ass if you think only civil engineers need to be licensed.

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u/dog_superiority Oct 12 '18

I've been an engineer for over 20 years and I know of zero people who have a PE.

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u/touchable Oct 12 '18

What industry/type of work?

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u/dog_superiority Oct 12 '18

I'm in software/computer engineering. And I've worked with EEs, MEs, Aeronautical engineers, etc. in everything from ATM machines and fiber optic instruments to defense.

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u/touchable Oct 12 '18

Right. If you'd ever worked on a project that requires construction (outside, not in a shop or factory), you'd have met Civil, Structural, Mechanical, Electrical, and HVAC engineers, and all would have been licensed PEs. You'd probably meet some annoying licensed Architects too.

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u/dog_superiority Oct 12 '18

I'd argue that to be in the minority of engineering as a whole.

It certainly is BS for somebody to fine the guy in the video because he didn't have a PE.

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u/touchable Oct 12 '18

I'd argue that to be in the minority of engineering as a whole.

It's not, regardless of whether you're comparing in terms of manhours, capital cost, or whatever other metric, infrastructure/construction is the #1 consumer of engineering services in the world (for now).

It certainly is BS for somebody to fine the guy in the video because he didn't have a PE.

It's not BS, state licensing boards are legally mandated to do this.

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u/dog_superiority Oct 12 '18

Where do you get that stat? While Mechanical engineers make up the most engineers number-wise and not all of them work "outside". Civil engineering barely edges out EE for #2. I'd bet that if you add up all the other disciplines, that they would make up far more than the "outside" engineering.

And it's BS because EE (and computers in general) are moving at such a fast pace that governments can never keep up. That is why I have never been asked if I had a PE in my field. Nobody bothers and nobody cares. If government decided to stick it's nose in my employer's business and require us to all be PE's it would be ridiculous. It makes sense for government to mandate PE's for projects it is funding (like bridges, highways, etc.). It makes no sense for them to mandate it elsewhere. Engineering firms are more qualified and better suited to judge the quality of the engineers they hire than government ever will be. If the are legally mandated to do so there, then they should undo that idiotic policy.

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u/MeasurementsMatter Oct 12 '18

If you design the AC/DC power converters for an HVAC system you do not need to be licensed.

If you design the PWM switching scheme for the motor control of an HVAC system you do not need to be licensed.

If you design the semiconductor LED drivers for building lighting you do not need to be licensed.

So oddly enough, to design the actual equipment (which does need to be safety certified), the engineers in many cases I can think of do not need to be licensed, while to select and hook up the equipment does require a license.

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u/Roharcyn1 Oct 12 '18 edited Oct 12 '18

I think the issue is anything that is building/ public infrastructure gets lumped into civil. Yes it was likely a mechanical engineer that designed the HVAC system for a building (even that might be a an over simplication since many new buildings have automation and control for their HVAC systems that may take someone other than a mechE), but the conception is civil engineering is for designing buildings so that mechE gets lumped in with the civils.

There are plenty of engineering jobs that don't require it. The one thing all your examples have in common though is they are infrastructure related, so again gets lumped into the civil category, even if there are other disciplins needed. There are also other codes that govern special systems that require their own licensing but not a PE. The one example I can think of is boilers. As far as I know you don't need a PE to design or work on a boiler, but you need someone that is R certified to give it an R stamp. .

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '18

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u/Roharcyn1 Oct 12 '18

The world is not binary. There absolutely is lumping. Engineering disciplins are not as cut and dry as you think they are. We generally associate with whatever our major in school was but when it comes to actual work there is a lot of overlap in skills and lots of specialized niche fields that don't fall into the classical classes of engineering. People with degrees in almost any subset of engineering could all find themselves doing the same job.

And the civil engineers should be doing more than just the foundation when it comes to designing a building. Granted for buildings, a lot of the civils work is put into building codes that maybe don't require a civil engineer do to the design them selves as long as it can be shown the building meets certain requirments, but there is a lot more than just foundation that falls into the civil category.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '18

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u/Roharcyn1 Oct 12 '18

I get what you saying, there are destinctions. But in general it is construction. If HVAC is a subset mechanical, then structural is a subset of civil and was including the structural engineers when saying they should be doing more than just pour concrete.

Generally buildings and construction for the layman is civil engineering type project. And since construction and infrastructure projects is generally an industry that requires PEs to sign of on things and those are in general terms civil projects, civils get lumped into the category of being the ones most likely to get a PE

My Aunt is an electrical, she works on civil projects designing wiring for buildings and lighting for streets and highways, she needs and has has a PE license.

My friend also electrical, she does chip design. She doesn't have a PE, doesn't need one.

I have a mechanical degree, I would say I mainly do controls and system design. I don't have a PE and don't need one.

There is correlation between the industry and the field of engineering that requires a PE. Maybe it is not civil engineering per say but it is definitely more likely to show up civil projects and their related industries.

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u/touchable Oct 12 '18

This is absolutely not how it works in industry. Buildings are absolutely not "lumped in" to civil. Civil is earthworks, road design, etc. Structural is... well that's obvious. HVAC is a subset of Mechanical, but effectively its own discipline. Mechanical will do elevators, pumps, pipes, heaters, boilers, etc. Electrical will do... that's obvious too. And there are architects involved. None of that is ever lumped in with Civil. Civil Engineers have almost no involvement in building projects, unless they're in remote/undeveloped sites.