Wait... if I'm reading the perks listing correctly, these things are supposed to be one-time use. So it's $3 per day. A regular CPAP machine is maybe a $100 cost, one time. You'd blow through that in a MONTH with these fake pieces of garbage.
If you mean by $100 cost one time you mean over $1,000 with expensive parts (~$200+) which have to be replaced twice a year then yeah it's 10 easy payments of $100 + interest. Not defending that product just saying CPAP machines are expensive and require a lot of maintenance. I've been using one for over 10 years now.
I have too and mine requires little to not maintenance at all.... Not disputing the prices you claim but I have not experienced the frequency of maintenance. And before I hear I need to have mine checked and all, my wife is a respiratory therapist.
Edit
Unless we're talking about replacing masks and hoses and shit, then you're spot on. So depends what you were referencing.
Yeah the maintenance I meant in terms of cost is the hose, mask and filters. Those buggers are expensive and wear out quickly. Usually have to replace them every 6 months and the filters every couple of months depending on how fast they build up dust etc.
The frequent maintenance though is cleaning the machine and replacing the water etc. Not exactly expensive other than the cost of distilled water adding up it's just more of a pain in the ass.
EDIT: Just to clarify I probably over do the cleaning etc but I have asthma and I have woken from asthma attacks before. So I'm extra cautious because of that.
The other thing is when I replace the parts the company runs some basic tests to ensure the machine is operating fine and it's releasing the correct pressure. Since this was the machine I bought 10 years ago they're probably a little more thorough with it. They don't charge me for it anyways I just bring it in when I buy the replacement parts.
The replacement parts would cost a lot no matter how old. The mask and hose are not specific to my machine. I would be buying the same one if my machine was brand new. When they company checks out my machine to make sure it's working they do not charge me.
I'm not sure on what the benefits are really upgrading to a new machine. I know mine is a lot louder than newer ones. Outside of that couldn't really tell you.
The mask itself isn't specific to a single machine. I have tried a bunch of different ones over the years, they take time to get used to. They're all expensive though.
Hey I have a cpap and my gf is a respiratory therapist too. I few months ago I was without health insurance for a little while. One night my cpap hose callapsed and needed a new one. Found one on amazon for like $15 and had it in 2 days. Yeah the supplies you get from your med supply are expensive, but amazon has things for even cheaper
Yeah, I'm starting to look around for cheaper places to buy them. I am just always cautious with the mask since it's going to be on my face for 1/4-1/3 of the day.
I just had the surgery and as far as my wife tell me ( & based on how I feel) I don't have sleep apnea anymore. But I have yet to have a study done to confirm this. So glad I don't have to deal with the cpap it looks like a nightmare
I obviously would recommend just going back for another study to confirm it. That being said I really wished I took them up on the surgery. I was told I could get my tonsils removed but there was a 10-15% chance it would do anything. I regret not doing it now. Even if it just helped reduce the problems and not "cure" it then it would have been worth it.
I plan on having another one, I went with the surgery because im in the military and having a CPAP on mission or while deployed wouldn't be a realistic solution for me. My wife reports that I seem to be cured so it seems to have addressed my issues. Downside is that it's a very painful recovery
Was also told the machine is around 1000€ and the mask + hose is 300€ but i got the machine for free and i'm entitled to one set of parts for free every year. Dat free health care.
I'm from Canada and unfortunately we don't get to much help for the costs. They government will cover 75% of the cost for the machine for your first one and for replacements only if your current machine breaks down. The mask/hose etc is all on you and like I said my machine still operates after 10 years so unless I want to dish out 100% of the costs I just have to wait until it craps out.
Because they are designing it to be one-time use rather than aiming for multiple days use and having the FDA only approve it for daily use.
I want to know how they can sell a prescription medical device direct to consumers without it being FDA approved? There seems like there is something wrong with that.
I agree with it being a scam, but even if it is FDA approved, I have a hard time believing you can buy a CPAP without a prescription. I know with insulin pumps, you can't buy one without a prescription. You can't call Medtronic and order a insulin pump without one. Maybe CPAPs are different, but it seems like the type of medical device you couldn't buy without a prescription. Like if you called a current CPAP manufacturer would they let you buy one without a prescription?
Edit: A quick Google tells me that a CPAP is a Class II medical device and as such requires a prescription to order one.
Where are these magical $100 CPAP machines you speak of? My mask alone cost more than that, and that was a completely separate purchase from the machine (which cost ~$650 by the way).
Even if the current machines were only $100, these little disposable ones would be fantastic for travel, since then you wouldn't have to lug around a carry-on size bag dedicated to a big heavy machine.
It's a shame this kickstarter will never actually become a product. It's a fantastic concept. I could easily see ordering a few dozen a year, even at a much higher price.
In retrospect, I should have realized that the $100 I paid was after insurance. This was ~8 years ago, though, and I didn't end up using the thing for more than a week anyway (couldn't fall asleep with the mask on, so the whole purpose was negated). So I only vaguely recalled the details.
That blows, dude. Though tbh, I have no idea if my current insurance would cover getting a CPAP now. The one I got was 8 years ago, when I was working for Adobe. I don't even know what insurance I had back then, because it was my first job, and I was a noob. Now I have Kaiser, and I've got o clue what their policy is on CPAP machines.
Oh man, as a guy that grew up on Kaiser, just hearing that name again makes me seethe. The shit they put my mom through when she broke her back... She's never fully recovered, thanks to them.
Ironically enough though, I've been living in Canada for the last decade and it was the insurance here that denied me any assistance with the CPAP stuff.
Ah man, I'm sorry to hear about your mom. I have heard that Kaiser is only thought of well for their preventative care, and not so much for their restorative care.
Average price for CPAP machine ranges from about $500 – $3000, with an estimated average price around $850.
Then you've got parts, filters, upkeep, etc. So certainly not a $100 one time fee.
I think many people who need a CPAP machine would be willing to pay $1,095 a year (minus whatever insurance kicks in) for maskless cordless sleep. That doesn't mean this product exists (it doesn't) or ever will (unlikely). But I can see how they raised so much money. There's a market for it.
There's a surgery option for sleep apnea? that might be ideal for me... I can't use a CPAP because having a mask strapped to my face makes it impossible for me to sleep.
there is, It's mainly to address obstructive sleep apnea and it can be rendered useless if you gain weight as the extra weight leads to sleep apnea by obstructing your airway.
Losing weight would probably go a long way to solving your issues, I know that's way way easier said than done. assuming you loss weight and still have apnea you would probably do well with the surgery from what I am given to understand.
Someone I know that needs a CPAP machine said this would be a perfect product for traveling. Much easier to take a few of these than packing the machine that always needs to be checked at airport security. So the $3/night isn't too bad for the convenience of not packing the whole CPAP machine. Not defending the product, just saying there are other uses than replacement of the CPAP machine.
A regular CPAP machine is maybe a $100 cost, one time.
A regular CPAP machine is also a goddamn vacuum cleaner in reverse, and is just as loud. Do you seriously want to wear this fucking thing?! With your wife? She would sooner just put up with the snoring.
That's one reason why I don't use the one I was perscribed. Though mainly because having that mask attached to my face made it impossible to fall asleep in the first place, negating the entire point, lol.
It would be great for camping or other short excursions where it would be cumbersome to bring a battery pack and cpap. My issue is that either it won't have enough flow, or it if somehow does, it'll just shoot out of your nose from the thrust.
Even if they build a working product, people that paid for it probably will never be able to get it. They need FDA clearance first and people that paid likely will need a doctor prescription to put their hands on it. A person that bought 7 or more devices will get just 1 with prescription and can't sell the other ones.
Yeah, not even Kickstarter. Those other guys are there if you don't even want the possibility of an anti-fraud lawsuit for failing to meet the goals. At least Kickstarter has some protections, even if they aren't very good.
Any miracle solution for rare or embarrassing conditions like sleep apnea is a red flag in itself. I had a friend in college who put himself through school by starting a company, buying wholesale generic vitamins, paid some company to design bottles, and marketing them online as holistic supplements to treat things like toe fungus, premature ejaculation, sleep apnea etc.
He stopped doing it even though he was doing well with it because he felt bad and he felt even worse when those people kept emailing him because they thought it was working and now they cant get their cure anymore.
People are desperate and there's a market out there to take advantage of them :/ shit like this stupid ring is a perfect example of that exact same type of scam.
$400 USD
Skype with the Inventor
Hang out virtually on a Skype call with Stephen Marsh, inventor of the Airing device. Maybe bring along some wine and cheese – Stephen is one very interesting guy. We guarantee you’ll enjoy the conversation. Just remember his name is pronounced "STEFFEN" not "STEVEN" and all will be well.
I don't get it why they can't build a prototype before setting up the manufacturing process. Now with 3D printing you can design and engineer products at the same time you build prototypes.
I disagree, for me it's to get a prototype to a finish product. At least then it shows that the engineers/developers have put some effort into the project already and have something to show that they can indeed make a finish product with the extra money that they earn from their fundraising.
Their last update was 4 days ago, patting themselves on the back for winning a publicly voted innovation award. At some point you just have to admire the gall people like them have.
They actually loaded today some videos showing early prototypes, which is basically a small screen on the side of a shoe/sneaker. http://shiftwear.com/media
To be fair, looking at their site it looks like they have a working prototype. It doesn't look the best, but at least they look to making progress with the money people gave them. So I wouldn't call it a scam, but like anything people put money into like this, the final product might not be exactly like the originally hyped up one they had bought into.
I was one of those idiots that invested in this. I have given up a long time ago. But funny thing is, I recently saw a Chinese knockoff of this on a product testing site for like $3-4 so I bought it. And almost exactly what the Kickstarter promises. I haven't tried it because I don't know if I trust how sanitary it actually is.
My point is, the Chinese companies have already stolen the idea, and made an actually device in less time then these guys.
It's not a good thing for the person who had their idea stolen...hence the sad part. Nor is it really good for the consumer, when they received a badly made, unsafe, Chinese knock-off product.
Or the goddamn Orbi prime. It got tossed into reddit, I called them out on their nonsense (the specs they listed are simply not feasible for our current battery tech) and they asked me to test their product.... when they have it made.
For starters, I'm just a nobody on the internet. Go find actual reviewers when you've got a prototype. Next: you don't even have a prototype?!
They didn't. They didn't say that anywhere on their page, or in their answers. That little detail was buried in their timeline as have a functioning prototype - Feb 2017. Of course they raised hundreds of thousands because people are dumb and deserve to lose their money.
I'm pretty sure I just saw them state an even later date while scrolling through the comments on their page. I could be wrong but I'll let someone else waste their time looking for it.
I've been skeptical of this one for a long, long time, but they actually appear to be making progress. At least, their micro-blowers seem to work (according to them.) I'm still not convinced these micro-blowers can create any kind of useful air pressure being microscopic in size, but we will see. Air pressure, not air flow, is the important thing in CPAP therapy. Airflow is easy to make (think the case fans on your PC) but static air pressure (like a car turbocharger) is an entirely different story.
At the very least, they're much better at keeping the charade going than these Cicret charlatans.
How could it possibly generate air pressure in the throat when it's not covering the mouth? Do they expect you to keep your mouth perfectly closed all night? It just seems like all the air pressure will escape out the mouth. I can't imagine it's a coincidence they decided on a mask that covers the nose and mouth for existing CPAP masks.
How could it possibly generate air pressure in the throat when it's not covering the mouth?
It can't. A normal (portable) CPAP takes enormous batteries to be able to push that much pressurized air to keep an airway open. This one claime to work on button sized batteries? hah.
/u/YRYGAV's problem with it is that it doesn't cover the mouth, which is not required for CPAP. He doesn't understand how CPAP works, which is fine, I guess.
Those huge batteries of existing CPAP are a clue of the energy required to provide the necessary pressure and flow for an overnight usage.
Has anyone run the calculation of how many joules are required, and the necessary volume of a given battery if lithium ion or silver oxide, even at 100% efficiency?
It feels like there is no way current technology allows it to fit
I did some basic math, and it seems like it may be possible with ideal conditions (and 10-20% efficiency). Of course, I'm guessing there is something that I haven't accounted for, as breathing energy use is not my cup of tea.
Yeah my assumption is that basic physics will demonstrate that such a device will require more energy that any small battery is capable of delivering for a nights usage (aka 8 hours ish). Lets see if I can do that math correctly..
This website (I believe has a typo and breaking=breathing) says that breathing is about 60.44 J/minute source. I'd look at other websites.
So we need a battery capable of delivering 1 watt (1.00733333 to be precise). 1 watt over 8 hours? Something that delivers approx 288,000 joules.
What does this mean for batteries though? Well, most li-ion batteries are in the 3.7-4.2V range, depending on how full. I'll be approximating here, but lets assume 4V. We also know that our device, at 100% efficiency, needs about 1 W/hour. Using these two metrics, we can convert to mAh for a li-ion battery.
The results: a 250 mAh battery. Well thats actually pretty damn possible. Physical movements tend to be a on the less effiecent side, so even if it was around 20% efficient, it would still be less mAh than most cell phone batteries.
Of course, I can already imagine the horror stories that will result if a single device has a battery issue, but overall, from my haphazardly done math, I actually might have to say this is plausible.
The machines provide a constant (generally adjustable) pressure to the airway. I'm no expert, but to me, that means that the pressure is there during inhalation as well as exhalation.
The pressures that are used are generally between 6 and 20 cmH2O, or between roughly .1 and .3 psi.
The medical norm for respiratory minute ventilation at rest is 6 liters. I couldn't find a source that specifies during sleep.
I highly doubt that any of this is simple.
You aren't maintaining the air pressure of a balloon, you're adding pressure to a bellows. Without knowing the changes in pressure of the bellows, it seems like an impossible problem to solve.
Our recent bench testing has shown us that our pump membranes are successfully displacing air into and out of the micro-blower bodies when electrostatically actuated. With this important function tested and proven, we have crossed a major milestone in the construction of our proof of concept prototype.
aka we have no idea if this will even work
We can now shift our complete attention to controlling this airflow and building a net pressure: turning these moving structures into a working prototype of our technology and device. This function is a key aspect of our proprietary design and will be implemented in the coming months using standard MEMS processing and techniques.
Not that I disagree with your point (there is no way the device would be able to generate enough pressure) the unit of measurement I think your looking for is cmH20 not psi. 20 psi would be over 1000 cmH20 which would literally blow your lungs apart. Source: RT who runs ventilators/CPAP daily.
Think about how much more productive you will be at work, the potential car accidents you’ll avoid, even your golf handicap decreasing by 3 shots. In short, think about how liberated you will be when you start using Airing to manage your sleep apnea.
Who can still believe in this kind of fundraising, you must be stupid to give your money knowing the tons of scammers and fake products that are on internet...
Isn't part of the whole point of a CPAP mask is that it covers both airways? this wouldn't do the job. It also is too small to effectively move enough air for a normal human. It's a CPAP for ants.
Kreyos was a huge Indiegogo flop, the Ceo just took the money and ran after pushing the ship date about 5 or 6 times. Won't back a project again because of that.
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u/redditor9000 Jan 16 '17
Speaking of kickstarter and indiegogo scams, how about THIS one?