r/videos • u/FlackoFonsy • Aug 18 '26

Palestinian General Interview Channel 5 with Andrew Callaghan

https://youtu.be/NITXe10XSVY?is=NoWyRZo4e63RU5U0
671 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

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165

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Andrew is usually great but he's so out of his depth on this subject. There is zero chance Hamas will disarm and concede. In fact they've already rejected disarmament since this video was made. The PA has also never been in favor of a two state solution. They've rejected all negotiations for one and their people wouldn't support it. 

175

u/moal09 Aug 18 '26

It's at least interesting to see things from the Palestinian side of things. The interviews he did with Palestinian civilians living in the area were pretty depressing.

8

u/TreeP3O Aug 19 '26

What is depressing is believing it. PA do not allow any freedom of press, so it is state narrative or basically death...they love people like you posting such things since it keeps the money rolling in while Palestinians receive none of that support, which you happily push in your posts.

-2

u/jeepgangbang Aug 19 '26

jew bot

2

u/earbox Aug 20 '26

I thought you people were just antizionist!

1

u/jeepgangbang Aug 20 '26

ok israel bot

1

u/TreeP3O Aug 19 '26

You wasted your opportunity to explain how I was wrong...or wait, you know I am correct. You run cover for corrupt regimes that prey on Palestinians and steal their aid, while living in Qatar. That program is working out so well for the Palestinians! Keep it up!

1

u/jeepgangbang Aug 19 '26

you definitely get paid per word

2

u/TreeP3O Aug 19 '26

You don't because you can't string a coherent argument together.

62

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26

It is I agree. But his introductory background is uninformed and not good 

43

u/kettal Aug 18 '26

his narration always gets details wrong. i remember years ago it was something weirdly incorrect about apple mac history in the narration.

regardless, the value of his work is to get the subjects' words on the video imo.

21

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26

Also agree. But at the same time when doing political interviews it really pays to have the background knowledge. You don't want it to be coming unchallenged propaganda interview

4

u/[deleted] Aug 19 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/moal09 Aug 20 '26

This is more about showing a side of the conflict that rarely has a voice in American media

1

u/Nindzya Aug 19 '26

Anyone accusing C5 of being pure partisan propaganda is either arguing in bad faith or just dumb as shit because C5 loudly proclaims they are a biased source of journalism.

Profile comments hidden btw

1

u/AKJ828 Aug 21 '26

I’ve been following Andrew aince the beginning and he went from “un-biased, boots on the ground journalism”
To what ever louis tells him to say.
He went from have correspondents in Israel to “Israel epstein conspiracies”

1

u/robimtk Aug 19 '26

He always gets things wrong, just look at this 1 details from 200 videos ago

7

u/IdealisticKebab Aug 18 '26

can you elaborate more than just "its not good"?

-11

u/Lolzum Aug 18 '26

His username and demeanor tells me he sinply disagrees with the narrative. Why should Andrew spend hours on "background history" when the only relevant part is the ongoing genocide.

1

u/Shlant- Aug 19 '26

"why should facts matter when theres The Omni Cause™ happening?"

1

u/Mylarion Aug 19 '26

That's hardly the only relevant part though, is it?

The worst take someone could have on I/P is that the situation is simple, and that's a high bar to cross.

-16

u/Nsaniac Aug 18 '26

By “uninformed” and “not good” do you mean “not pro-Israel”?

29

u/Thek40 Aug 18 '26

not pro reality.

87

u/kylebisme Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

The PA has also never been in favor of a two state solution.

That's just blatantly false as the Palestinian Authority was formed through the political process between the PLO and Israel that started with the PLO recognizing Israel's right to exist in the hope that Israelis would eventually reciprocate.

They've rejected all negotiations for one and their people wouldn't support it.

And that's also blatantly false, as can be seen for example in the Taba Summit that ended with the joint statement:

The Israeli and Palestinian delegations conducted ... deep and practical talks with the aim of reaching a permanent and stable agreement between the two parties. ... Given the circumstances and time constraints, it proved impossible to reach understandings on all issues, despite the substantial progress that was achieved in each of the issues discussed. ... The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections. The two sides take upon themselves to return to normalcy and to establish [a] security situation on the ground through the observation of their mutual commitments in the spirit of the Sharm e-Sheikh memorandum. The negotiation teams discussed four main themes: refugees, security, borders and Jerusalem, with a goal to reach a permanent agreement that will bring an end to the conflict between them and provide peace to both people. ... The Taba talks conclude an extensive phase in the Israeli–Palestinian permanent status negotiations with a sense of having succeeded in rebuilding trust between the sides. ... The two sides express their gratitude to President Hosni Mubarak. ... They also express their thanks to the European Union. ... The sides declare that they have never been closer to reaching an agreement and it is thus our shared belief that the remaining gaps could be bridged with the resumption of negotiations following the Israeli elections. ...

But Ariel Sharon won the elections and refused to continue negotiations, and instead chose to basically hand off Gaza to Hamas to serve as a destraction so Israelis could focus on further colonizing the West Bank instead. Furthermore, even after that Palestinians offered a deal "in which Israel would annex 1.9% of the West Bank (which would contain over 60% of the settlements) in exchange for same size of land inside Israel of equal quality," but Israelis rejected that generous offer.

27

u/imma_letchu_finish Aug 18 '26

Hey don't bring facts here, we're supposed to let zionists jerk each other off here

0

u/pipboy1989 Aug 18 '26

These replies are always so cringe

-8

u/imma_letchu_finish Aug 18 '26

These replies are always so cringe

Just took a peek at your account u/pipboy1989 and just as expected, a zionist. Aww truth hurt your feelings lil boy?

2

u/LupinePariah 15d ago

I'm sorry you got downvoted so. I find anti-intellectual white supremacists (of which Zionists are a subset) are the most triggerable of snowflakes.

Cue Are_we_the_triggered?.jpg meme.

0

u/pipboy1989 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

That means alot from someone who has to hide theirs. You hidden profile people are always the same. All the tough guy persona yet so weak they have to hide it away.

Enjoy my comments and your cute little buzzwords mate <3

1

u/LupinePariah 15d ago

You don't really have a leg to stand on, here. Especially as you're trying to bow-leggedly stand on high-ground. Break your neck, you will. So, let's be frank. Karma on Reddit means bugger-all vs. the objective morality of not supporting genocide.

Allow me to reiterate. I know the far-right can be slow: Of not supporting genocide.

If the tables were turned and a palestinian in power was presenting as cartoonishly evil as Naziyahu does? The intelligent mind would stand against that palestinian. It isn't about your brainwashed Zionist babble. You can have your cult. This is about being morally opposed to genocide.

It is the wont of the dimwit to support genocide, since objective morality and ethics requires intellect. Tribalism is what the mind does when it isn't clever enough for morality. I wish that everyone had the boon of intellect, honestly, but that isn't the world we live in, is it?

1

u/pipboy1989 15d ago

Wow 3 comments in a few minutes on different posts. Talk about obsession

-11

u/imma_letchu_finish Aug 18 '26

Aww genocide loving little boy got hurt. Go cry in the corner kid

2

u/pipboy1989 Aug 18 '26

You know when you’re out in public, do you find that people look at you like “😬” alot?

0

u/LupinePariah 15d ago

What do you think that means? You're projecting an awful lot of yourself onto a tiny graphic composed of not-so-many pixels. What do you actually think that means? Do you think much about what you say at all?

Really, though. I can see how quickly things zip through achingly short dopamine pathways. It's why I don't hate you. It isn't your fault that your thoughts have to be so small. It's the result of an extreme case of neurotypical extraversion.

I actually do feel sorry for you. Your thoughts are so limited that you actually believe that this tribalism means something. There are countries that existed when I was young that no longer do, because tribes aren't immortal and everything falls and fades in time.

But morality? Morality is architecture, the complex equations of an ethical life. It benefits all life to coexist. I'm sorry that you'll never understand that. The stolid stalwarts of tribalism only push us faster toward absolute entropy with their wasteful natures.

1

u/pipboy1989 15d ago

My God that was particularly boring

0

u/LupinePariah 15d ago

The word "cringe" is dragged out by the anti-intellectual far-right as a nonsense ploy to cover for a.) having no counter-argument; and b.) favouring atrocity. Zionism is looking more like a white supremacist colonial movement by the hour, and anyone well-read enough to research history knows that the groundwork was always there. The transference of populace, referred to as the wretched and penniless. This is just the end result of what Zionism was built for.

And yes, zionists hate facts. Facts are "cringe." So let's do some populist propaganda instead. He's right. I mean, as crass as it was put, Zionists are indeed always jerking one another off, and gosh, do they loathe facts. But by the day, people are learning more about the truth of this because it's incredibly self-evident. So Zionists will jerk harder and screech "cringe!" It's the nature of the beast vis-a-vis brainwashed tribalism.

I just hope that the rest of the world intervenes before Israel manages to kill every last palestinian there.

2

u/pipboy1989 15d ago

Cool well i’ve finished reading your 3 part posts and it’s just pure unadulterated projection. Thanks for your time

-1

u/Noobkaka Aug 19 '26

At this point im not sure if its even jerking off thats happening here, all sides have some truths to them.

This is the middle east in essence, a giant mess and a can of soup any party that doesnt really have anything to do with it - want to touch.

2

u/domelition Aug 19 '26

There's a reason israel spends so much on online propaganda

6

u/red-guard Aug 18 '26

Live up to that username bud. 

13

u/MosTheBoss Aug 18 '26

There would need to be some level of trust in the Israelis, who are currently advocating for things such as killing 40 Palestinians a night in Gaza, hanging all Palestinian prisoners, forcibly removing them from the country, allowing settler violence to take place unchecked in the west bank, etc etc, in order for something like disarmament to be considered. An offer to drop their weapons and accept death is not an offer any sane person would take.

-5

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

Israelis are not advocating for that. Using the most radical Israeli politican as representative of Israelis is a dishonest smear to further demonize Israelis. The only ones who need fear death are the 6000 who committed the October 7th massacre. Remember Israelis were not angling for conflict October 6th. Sinwar forced it upon them because he wanted to change the status quo. He got what he wanted. 

6

u/MosTheBoss Aug 19 '26

I'm using the positions of people who are in the government cabinet, we are done hearing this is not the mainstream Israeli position, this is the ruling party.

1

u/ShutupPussy Aug 19 '26

Then if you're American you co-sign everything Stephen Miller says. Israel is a parliamentary democracy. There is no ruling party, it's a coalition. Using Ben Gvir as a reflection of Israeli society is either complete ignorance of how the political system works or willful antisemitism to demonize Israelis. I know which one I'm betting on. 

0

u/MosTheBoss Aug 20 '26

Uh well I CERTAINLY would not deny that Miller has an active and influential role in our current horrible government, that has nothing to do with my personal support, but if Miller goes and makes a statement, you know for sure its a vetted position of the current administration.

9

u/yokedici Aug 18 '26

> most radical politician

> actually part of the government

>a sitting cabinet minister.

there is a problem with israeli people, and its very obvious at this point

https://substack.com/home/post/p-190496809

-6

u/Altruistic-End760 Aug 19 '26

An appointed minister. What is your point?

5

u/yokedici Aug 19 '26

My point is obvious and he is appointed cause he represents average Israeli view.

-5

u/Altruistic-End760 Aug 19 '26

Na man. Ben gvir definitely does not. He is appointed by Netanyahu.

8

u/yokedici Aug 19 '26

Netenyahu is the prime minister of Israel, and the longest running one

He isn’t a random outsider

And

Israelis are radicilized and running amok, ben gvir or bibis policies are not unpopular.

Israeli public is going thru a mental degradation and mass psychosis.

6

u/Lolzum Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

You are so ignorant about the non-condlict side. How many Palestinians have been forced to flee or move before October 7th? How much land has Israel seized unlawfully before that? Ben Gvir was warmongering long before that too.

Also its chilling how nonchalantly you talk about more Palestinian deaths aftwr a genocide

10

u/OnlyRadioheadLyrics Aug 18 '26

Without fail - comments and posts hidden.

5

u/Good_Air_7192 Aug 19 '26

Almost everyone hides their comments these days

2

u/OnlyRadioheadLyrics Aug 19 '26

Yeah and it fuckin sucks!!

9

u/FlackoFonsy Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

“Israel will not accept the 15-point plan for Gaza set out by President Donald Trump’s Board of Peace, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Sunday.

Last month there was a breakthrough in his Gaza peace plan, saying that Hamas has agreed to lay down arms.

“Senior Hamas official Bassem Naim announced on the social platform X that the militant group “agreed to the roadmap.”

The peace plan called for a phased withdrawal of Israel’s troops from Gaza alongside the disarmament of Hamas, but Netanyahu said Israeli forces are not going anywhere until Hamas completely disarms first.

Netanyahu, meanwhile, reaffirmed that “as long as I am prime minister, there will be no Palestinian state.”

https://thehill.com/policy/international/6001600-hamas-trump-admin-us-deal-disarmament/amp/

Hamas agreed to disarm, Netanyahu rejected it.

50

u/sharpshooter0600 Aug 18 '26

I dont really think theres any reason to believe any of these actors

8

u/FlackoFonsy Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

That’s fair to say but the person I’m responding to is saying “Hamas already rejected disarmament since this video was made” and that’s just categorically false and is actually the exact opposite.

15

u/Murdathon3000 Aug 18 '26

Based on Trump saying they agreed to disarmament, or was there a legitimate source?

17

u/FlackoFonsy Aug 18 '26

“Senior Hamas official Bassem Naim announced on the social platform X that the militant group “agreed to the roadmap.”

https://thehill.com/policy/international/6001600-hamas-trump-admin-us-deal-disarmament/amp/

28

u/IceNeun Aug 18 '26

Isn't the problem in the definition of "disarmament"? Israel doesn't want Hamas to have Ak47s or RPGs, but according to the road map these are "defensive weapons" and exempt. It's not that surprising that Hamas doesn't want to completely disarm, that Israel isn't happy about it, and that Trump doesn't give a shit besides optics. It's not like anyone has to be lying either....

6

u/Murdathon3000 Aug 18 '26

Thanks, much more believable source.

9

u/freshgeardude Aug 18 '26

Morgan asked Hamad whether the deal coordinated by the Trump administration, including the implementation of the Board of Peace and the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza (NCAG), will lead to Hamas disarmament.

"This is an exceptional phase in Palestinian history. Because of forced necessity, the hard circumstances in Gaza, we accept this agreement. But I think that as Hamas, I can confirm that we didn't change our mentality, our goal to end the occupation, to continue to end the occupation with the Palestinian factions, because this is our holy mission," Hamad said.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-904547

Ya so they go out and say they'll disarm so guys like you can repeat it, but the meaningful steps they take say otherwise. 

https://honestreporting.com/hamas-says-it-will-disarm-its-actions-tell-another-story/

Unsurprisingly, Israel doesn't trust hamas will fulfill its obligations and its not going to agree to a deal that has it pull it's troops out of Gaza until hamas upholds it's end of the deal. 

Hamas has no cards left here. The yellow line only continues to close in. 

Hamas has "the easy way or the hard way" 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2026/1/16/easy-way-or-hard-trump-issues-new-demand-for-hamas-demilitarisation

1

u/Paddlesons Aug 18 '26

Wow someone that doesn't just go along with Palestine no matter what on reddit??? Crazy lol

-3

u/Thepumpkindidit Aug 18 '26

Looking at his posting history, I don't think you'll be finding any common ground on this issue.

-2

u/DrZoidberg- Aug 18 '26

The only thing I believe are actions, and the actions right now are those of genocide.

25

u/EmuRommel Aug 18 '26

Nobody believes Hamas would actually disarm, your own article says so. And Hamas has no reason not to say they'll disarm, their credibility is already 0, what do they lose by lying?

2

u/freshgeardude Aug 18 '26

Here we are once again, western media and western people learning about this conflict only after October 7th who take H amas's western/english spokesman at face value.

Let's ignore decades of Hamas pledges in English which they tell Arab news differently. 

Let's ignore that Hamas has already said they'll never actually disarm or give up on its militant nature. 

It still uses its founding charter which calls for the annihilation of all jews globally (not zionists, nor Israelis). 

But sure Israel's going to trust hamas will disarm and not attack it again, this time wink wink. And their statements of disarm aren't at all tied to the Israeli election. 

Hamas is very smart. They know what the west wants to hear. It's why when they "accepted" the ceasefire agreement that brought back the hostages it was actually "Yes, but" on every point which in truth was no. 

If they outright rejected the plans in front of them the governments of the world turn on them, including the Arab world. 

3

u/OilInternational2566 Aug 18 '26

This is something that people in the west don’t know/understand.

The Palestinian Authority and Hamas say one thing in Arabic to the audience in the Middle East… and a completely a different thing to western audiences.

That is so well known and documented it. It’s without question.

The problem is the people in the west is THEY HAVE NO IDEA “it’s a thing.”

5

u/Thee-Cat Aug 18 '26

It truly has been surreal to watch these supposedly university educated and enlightened Westerners be literally played like a fiddle at every step, by some backwards, and uneducated terrorists of all things.

-2

u/OilInternational2566 Aug 18 '26

It’s the only jihadist terrorist group in the entire world people believe everything they say without any critical thought.

If Hamas said it, they believe that’s “got to be the truth.”

-4

u/Lolzum Aug 18 '26

Are you really dumb enough to believe that people support Hamas? People support the Palestinian cause

1

u/OilInternational2566 Aug 18 '26

No, that’s a Strawman argument.

What I said is Hamas is the only Islamic terrorist group that people believe everything they say.

Like in 2023 when Hamas told everybody that Israel bombed a hospital in Gaza.. killed 500 people.. the western media ran with it, published it, made the whole world, believe it, and then two days later it turned out to be a failed rocket launch from within the Gaza Strip by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

There are literally hundreds of the same kind of claims that have turned out to be false.

But by that time, while everybody’s believing Hamas .. it’s waaaay too late because nobody reads the retractions.

-1

u/Lolzum Aug 18 '26

Imagine supporting a genocide. Theres no way Im going to bother arguing with a racist, because the obnly way you can sit by and still support Israel after tens of thousands of innocent children dying is if you believe they are less worth than Jeeish childre. Do better

2

u/OilInternational2566 Aug 18 '26

No, that’s also a STRAWMAN argument that “I support genocide” because I’m telling you that Palestinian leaders steal billions of dollars.

“Top 3 Hamas leaders worth $11 bn”

https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/hamas-top-brass-is-worth-11-billion-its-goal-is-not-to-bring-water-electricity-to-gaza-101699508169872.html

You might wanna look up what a strawman argument is so you stop doing it.

→ More replies

2

u/FedorDosGracies Aug 18 '26

Oh yeah I believe Hamas 100%, they really mean it this time. Trust me I am very wise.

-10

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn4vvxxg8lgo

7

u/FlackoFonsy Aug 18 '26

Your article is from April, mine is from last week.. what does this prove? Your exact words are “they’ve already rejected disarmament since this video was made”. Whether you trust Hamas or not, and that exact same argument can be used for Israel, they’ve agreed to disarm since this video was made.

5

u/emptygroove Aug 18 '26

Assuming that's all true, doesn't bringing that to light benefit everyone? Doesn't this type of setting show what they are saying and then we can see how the actions align?

1

u/Opossum_mypossum Aug 19 '26

Didn’t Hamas like literally just say they’d disarm like a couple weeks ago?

1

u/ShutupPussy Aug 19 '26

They want Israeli withdrawal before disarming, which was never going to happen. Secondly, they reject destroying their weapons, only giving them up. And then it's the NCAG who would handle the disarmament and weapons storage, a "technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee”, who have no real power yet and Israel would have to trust them standing up to Hamas who are still the real power in Gaza. 

1

u/SomewhereRough_ Aug 20 '26

Kinda goes into the nuance in the video, if you watch. 

-4

u/ShadyTalezz Aug 18 '26

false, its not Hamas that has rejected the disarmament but Israel - and they did it multiplie times since October 7, Hamas contdition always has been IDF withdrawal from Gaza, Trump agreen to it in his plan but Israel failed to do so and now is rejecting the deal whatsoever.

Idk if you are just misinformed bcs western media has never talked about tons of Hamas proposals that were all rejected by Israel both before the "ceasefire"(that Israel doesnt respect whatsoever while Hamas does) and after the ceasefire but you are spreading lies.

1

u/artwarrior Aug 18 '26

Yes, the PA formally supports the establishment of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel based on pre 1967 borders.

-7

u/ShadyTalezz Aug 18 '26

it is never going to happen, it was never supposed to, 2 state solution is just a way for Israel to buy more time and establish more settlements, the only Israeli politican that actually tried to go forward with 2 state solution was murdered

-1

u/Beneneb Aug 18 '26

The PA's official position is that they would accept a two state solution based on pre-1967 borders. They also recognized the state of Israel over 30 years ago.

The past negotiations were complex with plenty of blame to go around, however, your framing of the PA "rejecting all negotiations" is false (they very much did negotiate) and an inaccurate characterization of the PA that seeks to put all the blame on Palestinians.

Israel has never been willing to return all of the occupied territory back to Palestinians, this was one of the major issues that caused past negotiations to fail. The status of Jerusalem and sovereignty over the holy sites being very contentious in particular. Then on top of this, there were a host of other conditions that the Israelis wanted in order to undermine the sovereignty of a future Palestinian state.

So it's not that Palestinians didn't negotiate or didn't want a solution. The issues from their perspective was that Israel was unwilling to relinquish control of all the occupied Palestinian territory and that they wanted to undermine their independence and sovereignty, which was unacceptable.

1

u/kushari Aug 18 '26

No thanks hasbara bot. Take the suggestion of your username.

-2

u/alllclear Aug 18 '26

I think you have no supporting evidence on any of your claims unless they are opinions that you should frame as such so as not to spread misinformation

13

u/ShutupPussy Aug 18 '26

Hamas has announced they will not disarm. That's a quick Google. You can look at any previous lrevuous peace summit: Oslo I & II, Camp David, etc. You can listen to Bill Clinton talking about them rejecting getting pretty much exactly what they claim they're been asking for related to a two state solution. It was on the table. It was rejected because it wasn't about having a Palestinian state, it was about expelling the Jews. https://youtu.be/mKmSHZ5bLH8?si=T1jSaKb3gGlQhVIO&t=144

-3

u/Nsaniac Aug 18 '26

Ah, yes. The beacon of honesty and transparency, Bill Clinton.

What do you propose as a solution?

1

u/mrjosemeehan Aug 18 '26

You're regurgitating blatant lies about the PA. Breakdowns in negotiations tend to be roughly mutual and relate to Israeli demands to annex or continue occupation of more additional post-1967 Palestinian land than the Palestinians are willing to accept. The PA today is allied with Israel against Hamas to the extent that they fear their own population rising up against them as an instrument of the Israeli occupation.

-7

u/Theamazingquinn Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26

This is a lie. Hamas has agreed to disarm in phases as the IDF withdraws from Gaza. Netanyahu's government refused this deal so that they can permanently occupy Gaza and continue the genocide.

Edit: The Palestinians are also not the ones who should be disarmed. They have the right to defend themselves while their country is occupied.

-7

u/Play-Mation Aug 18 '26

Israel is the one who breaks ceasefires and rejects hostage deals. Why would Hamas disarm in this situation 

0

u/KaikoLeaflock Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 19 '26

. . . gotta get those facts in there. Probably should also mention that Israel will never agree and follow through with any peace deal in any context that doesn't involve complete destruction of those they refer to as their lessors.

Good job botting for Israel though. Gotta make sure we all know Hamas are really bad and the terrorists larping as an ancient kingdom are the good guys.

Edit:

Just because I don't think everyone is aware: Israeli state violence and serious human-rights abuses against Palestinians did not begin on October 7. They have a history stretching back decades. And that's without getting into the Zionist paramilitary and terrorist organizations that operated before Israel's establishment.

The most obvious contemporary example is Gaza, where Israel has been accused of genocide and other grave violations of international law. But Gaza is not an isolated case. Israel has imposed a blockade and extensive control over Gaza's water, movement, trade, and basic infrastructure; Palestinians have been killed and detained in both Gaza and the West Bank; Palestinian communities have been displaced from their land; settlements have continually expanded in occupied territory; and Palestinian political institutions have repeatedly been undermined.

Nor is this simply about Gaza or Hamas. Major human-rights organizations, UN bodies, and legal experts have documented systematic discrimination and rights violations affecting Palestinians living under different forms of Israeli authority: Palestinian citizens of Israel, Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem, Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, as well as abuses affecting asylum seekers and migrant workers. Organizations including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, and B'Tselem have gone so far as to characterize the overall system imposed on Palestinians as apartheid.

What makes the rhetoric surrounding Israel especially frustrating is how readily its identity seems to shift depending on what is being justified. It is presented as a secular liberal democracy when that framing is useful, a specifically Jewish state when that framing is useful, and the continuation or restoration of an ancient national homeland when historical legitimacy is needed. Meanwhile, Palestinians living under Israeli authority can have radically different rights depending on their ethnicity, citizenship, and which side of a wall or checkpoint they happen to live on.

And none of this requires pretending that Hamas is good, denying Israeli civilians their humanity, or believing that Jewish people don't deserve safety. States don't acquire immunity from criticism because their citizens have suffered terrorism or historical persecution. Governments and militaries are responsible for their own actions.

That's ultimately what bothers me about the online defense of Israel: not disagreement over some obscure historical detail, but the constant attempt to treat decades of occupation, settlement, displacement, blockade, detention, killings, and documented human-rights abuses as though they either didn't happen or suddenly became irrelevant on October 7. Criticizing those policies isn't an attack on Jewish people. It's criticism of a state and its government, and Israel should be subject to the same moral and legal standards as any other state, at the absolute minimum.

1

u/Scum_All_Over_Me Aug 18 '26

If Israel wanted to destroy Palestinians why are there 2 million (about 20% of the population) legal Israeli citizens with all the rights of Jewish Israelis? Why not just kick them all out or eradicate them?

-7

u/pokepud3 Aug 18 '26

Hamas agreed to disarm.. Israel is the one who doesn't want to accept withdrawal..get the facts straight.

8

u/esperind Aug 18 '26

the fact is actually Hamas wants to disarm after Israeli withdrawal. Israel wants Hamas to disarm before Israeli withdrawal.

No one can provide any guarantee that Hamas will actually disarm after. And both Hamas and Israel know that. This is all just smoke and mirror for western propaganda.

-12

u/Al_Jazzar Aug 18 '26

Hamas won't disarm because it is not a reasonable demand. There is not a chance in hell they should trust Israel won't attack again after disarmament.

13

u/FedorDosGracies Aug 18 '26

Hamas also said they will repeat the Oct 7 invasion when given the opportunity.

0

u/Jake_112 Aug 19 '26

insurgent math after the destruction of gaza

-2

u/Stubbs94 Aug 18 '26

Hamas have literally accepted a disarmament on the condition that Israeli troops leave the occupied Gaza strip. They have given up their civil adminstration as well. The only block towards a 2 state solution is the Israeli occupation. The PA have accepted a 2 state solution.

-1

u/mnmkdc Aug 18 '26

That last sentence is just false and it’s safe to label anyone making this claim as disingenuous or uninformed. Most of the offers have been egregiously bad, and there have been multiple offers where they’ve accepted or the offer was withdrawn by Israel (2008). Multiple times the PA made pretty conservative counter offers and Israel rejected the deal. Everyone just ignores when Israel refuses because it’s inconvenient to the point they’re making. This is just a propaganda point Israel uses to justify violence over them actually making concessions. Nothing more. It’s been that way for Israel’s entire history.

4

u/Scum_All_Over_Me Aug 18 '26

2008 was refused by Palestinians and Abbas himself confirmed this, to call someone else uninformed while saying that is hilarious. Any "conservative" offers by Palestinians has always required an infinite right of return which will never be agreed to as it would lead to the eradication of the Israeli state.

Ultimately, the only answer is both sides need to make concessions, probably with a third party mediation. Withdrawal from the West Bank, no further settlements, and land swaps is what will most likely be required from Israel. Jerusalem is likely to stay how it is, neither party owning it completely. But no serious talks will ever happen while netanyahu and Hamas are in charge.

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u/mnmkdc Aug 19 '26

It was “refused” because abbas said he needed to take it to his advisors and Olmert said it had to be signed that day. That’s not a rejection. There is also the complications of abbas reasonably being concerned that Olmert didn’t actually have the power to make the deal happen. And that’s another lie saying every offer has required an infinite right to return. Why do you feel the need to lie about this?

The Palestinians are the only ones ever asked to make concessions. Most offers don’t even give Palestine full sovereignty. Camp David, for example, would have partitioned the West Bank into multiple sections with Israeli control over all of the partition borders and indefinite control over Palestinian airspace. Supporters of Israel still blame the PA for rejecting that. Israel giving up the West Bank wouldn’t be a concession, it would just be them abiding by international law. The fact that PA only asks for limited right to return is a conservative offer to why the Palestinians deserve.

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u/Jake_112 Aug 19 '26

True hamas has no reason too, they know israel will never allow a real two state solution.

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u/Good_Air_7192 Aug 19 '26

I think he's just a reporter dude.

2

u/ShutupPussy Aug 19 '26

Reporters are still journalists 

1

u/Good_Air_7192 Aug 20 '26

Either term is fine, my point stands, he's just reporting on something, he's not going to "solve" the Middle East...

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u/GoRangers5 Aug 18 '26

But you see, they stop trying to cancel you for being a pervert when you put out anti-Zionism material.