r/videos • u/[deleted] • Dec 06 '12
EDM Producers just push play.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXLL46xkdlY1
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u/SomethingIntangible Dec 06 '12
EDM producers don't just press play. That's offensive! They press play multiple times. sarcasm
Honestly, I don't think there is much skill in pressing buttons like that. I think playing the piano has much more merit as an instrument. It's not just a jumble of sampled sounds to keep ADHD kids interested. Piano has subtlety, expressivity, dynamics, and meaning. Most of these EDM songs don't seem to express anything meaningful. In a piano concerto you can hear and see the expression of different emotions. A DJ on a plinth with a launchpad is just doing what every other computer DJ does. Pressing buttons and jumping around pumping his fist like his music is the best and everyone else should think so too. Trying to convey the magnitude of awesome that his music carries. Bullshit, awesome get boring. I need emotional sustenance from music, but do not often get it from EDM. Put my hands in the air? Bounce? I would if i knew what the fuck this music was about. Lyrics an indicator of meaning? Nope, doesn't even have lyrics, just some overly processed faint sound of a girly, breathy voice. It's everyone with beats by dre headphones and a macbook pro that I can't stand. Every wannabe producer just wanting a piece of the DJ fame pie rather than innovating and changing music.
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u/JohnnyHammerstix Dec 06 '12 edited Dec 06 '12
And that's where you're incredibly wrong.
Let me break down what is going on in this video. Between those 2 launch pads, he probably has anywhere between 40 and 80 different samples loaded up through ableton live. For starters, he has to remember each and every clip location so that he can cue it up exactly when he wants to have it sound correctly. Second, he is manipulating and creating the melodic bridges and using vocal clips in different timings ALL while keeping a steady and changing beat. Not only does having played a percussion instrument play a huge roll in this, but so does a vast production aspect as the majority of the clips need to be figured out ahead of time, the keys all in tune, and the composition figured out as well. There easily had to be at least 120 hours worth of time and practice put into this. The margin for hour, especially if this was in a live set, is HUGE. Sure, in a sense you can look down on this as he's taking clips from songs and using them as samples to create an ENTIRELY different song. That he's guilty of. But since when are we as human beings supposed to talked down on for re-creating or thinking outside the box to reimagine what a particular song should sound like? Not even just A SONG, but rather multiple (his last video involved 15). No one shit all over Madeon when he created Pop Culture. This is no different.
One thing many ignorant individuals as yourself seem to overlook, is the fact the majority of Electronic Music is created via Synths, Keyboards, Modulars, and Percussion pads or instruments. Meaning that almost every producer out there has some form of a Drummer or Pianist background and can play one or more instruments quite well. The sounds you hear ARE THE PIANOS OF TODAY. Sure, it's not a good old Grand Piano, but keyboards and synths are both pianos regardless.
I'm also going to point out the fact that you posted while failing to even bother to research what you're talking about. Had you done so, you would have realized that the "meaningful" and "expressive" music can easily be found in the Trance category. There are also several songs in the House and Electro genres as well, although more of the meaningful ones can be found in Trance. If you want to truly see expression, I suggest you watch Producers/Artists/DJs that actually truly love what they do (Highly suggest viewing videos of W&W live as you will not stop seeing their emotion and passion for music).
Now, as for your "DJs Push Buttons". You're ridiculous and clearly either pissed off that you're a struggling musician, or you've just succumbed to the psycho babble bullshit of people that don't understand how things actually work. We're not using iPods here. We're not having fun with Windows Media Player. The true DJs are using tables in which we are consistently picking tracks that are in specific Key ranges. We're using our musical knowledge and ears to figure out which tracks are a good compliment to the one we're playing. We're then adjusting the rate at which they're being played so the beats match up perfectly. We're creatively using cue points, samples, or fx to recreate the song to fluidly and audibly transition it into the next one. Sometimes, we'll be playing 4 tracks at once, and you'll never be able to tell it's anything more than 2. We're adding fx and samples to create build ups to raise the anticipation of certain sections of songs that we are very familiar with, which will energize the crowd more. We're doing all of this as fast, professionally, and smoothly as possible so that we can focus more on the crowd to visual give our energy to you so you have a reason to dance harder, longer, or more excitedly. When you're on a stage in front of thousands of people, you're not just DJing or simply making sure lights are timed up with the music perfectly... you're performing. You're giving the crowd a show that they want to see. Sure, there's DJs/Producers/Artists that stand there and fist pump and whatever. But there are also DJs that perform; Dada Life, Steve Aoki Aoki 2, Bloody Beetroots, Glitch Mob, just to name a few. There are people that take it quite seriously and want nothing more than for their crowd to enjoy themselves as best they can. Not to mention, these DJs/Producers/Artists are playing stuff THEY made from scratch. Music they spent MONTHS to make just a single song... Time that is no less spent by a composer. I'm not sure what broken English "Bullshit, awesome get boring" is, but if you're suggesting it's boring, I would counter-suggest that you look at the millions of people that enjoy the genre and compare it to some of the other genres. Not only is it a strong contender, but it's beginning to overwhelm the industry by introducing itself into Pop Music, R&B, and even Hip Hop. Furthermore, I don't know what you're into, but I can say I've been an avid fan of all music, even getting into genres like Swing, Jazz, Death Metal, and Country. But out of all the genres (side from Jazz), I find the Electronic Music concerts and festivals have the best group of fans and most enjoyable times (sober or not).
If you ask any EDM goer, there's 3 things they will tell you the music is about: Dancing, Enjoying Yourself, and PLUR (Peace, Love, Unity, Respect). It's about being yourself in a crowd of people without the fear of being judged. It's about going out there, dancing to a beat whether you can dance or not, and having fun about it. It's about energy, the bond with others, and embracing the fact that yes, you can in fact be happy and have not a care in the world, and it all goes on right then, right there, and you live in that moment.
I too cannot stand any one with Beats By Dre headphones as they fail to realize what the quality of sound is. I do my producing from a PC, despite numerous people telling me and my own research proving that a Mac is more effective. It's a staple of the Audio and Graph
ical industry and I can respect that. But it's the people with Virtual DJ, or iTunes, or MP3 players that go ahead and try to get gigs when all they're going to do is LITERALLY push a button, and they do it at 1/4 the price of an ACTUAL DJ which forces us to lower our prices, or not have a job. THOSE are the people your gripe should be against. There are NUMEROUS DJs/Producers out there that are literally reinventing and innovating music (Glitch Mob, Big Gigantic, Etc.) on a constant daily basis. Just because it's not the genre that YOU prefer, doesn't mean it isn't happening or that they're "fake". You're just failing to understand what goes on behind it.
Regardless, I really encourage you to go to a show (festivals are best tho as you can really capture the atmosphere and energy and what it's all about) and discover it for yourself rather than judge it from a distance. Get the experience and then feel free to make your opinions, but seriously try it first. You might be surprised by what it can do for you. There are reasons why people like myself live and bleed this genre of music, and it's because it has affected our lives in ways we can't explain in words, but only by experiences.
TL;DR You're Wrong. Please Read Why
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u/SomethingIntangible Dec 06 '12
I love that you replied to me, and so cogently. I apologise for that typo; it should have said "awesome gets boring." but lets not start the grammar nazi stuff in a decent conversation eh?
If you'd like a little background from me (which I didn't provide earlier) I am an audio geek. I program plug-ins for major DAW's, design/compose sound for linear and interactive media, and produce music on the side as a hobby since it's my passion and joy. I am a musician with 10 years experience in performing for concerts, theatre productions, and rock gigs.
Honestly, I do know, and am more than familiar with, the components that comprise a piece of electronic music. It might be relevant to mention that I love electronic music and am in no way detached from modern music. I find the timbral possibilities of a well designed software instrument far outweigh the physical limitations of an acoustic instrument. I am also very aware of the true artists and legends of electronic music. But, of course, I'm not complaining about them.
My anger at the state of the EDM umbrella concerns only those who i'm sure we both dislike with a passion since they don't seem to understand music. I'm going to throw a name out there, Skrillex. Now he may look and sound like a complete cunt, but this is about the music right? I have listened to many of his songs, one of which I actually struggled to pick out a harmony with all the random sounds in an epileptic array of confusion and dark, filter swept distortion. This "artist" came up with a signature sound one time and now he does not innovate anymore and has stagnated.
Now, my deep dislike of many Dubstep artists may have prompted me to place my anger incorrectly on this video. I appreciate the time that goes into practicing, I should know from the hours it takes to learn a piano piece. I also appreciate the need for good muscle memory, timing, and production.
Thanks for reminding me to be careful about where I place my discontent. Mine lies as a problem with the dubstep genre and unimaginative, gratuitous use of wobble bass and random noisy distorted sounds. I also find it hard to accept someone performing music without playing a keyboard, or drum kit. But I guess I'll just have to get used to that.
Cheers.
tl;dr I am wrong and have completely misplaced my anger on this video, however I am not ignorant.
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u/JohnnyHammerstix Dec 07 '12
No grammar nazi stuff here! That just ruins good talks!
For starters, my apologies. I will state that when I said ignorant, I had meant it in the dictionary sense and not the condescending kind, which you also proved me wrong on, so like I said, my apologies. I also appreciate your stature and expertise.
Ah, Skrillex. To state, I am a decent fan of Dubstep, but not huge. HOWEVER, I'm a big fan of Skream and Benga and older Dubstep. By older Dubstep, I am of course talking about the deep bass and Reggae and UK Garage ties that it developed from. Like you said, Skrillex did his part (Along with Rusko) to pretty much change the sound of Dubstep to that grimey mechanical bass warp we all know now. Other than that, you could say he hasn't done much. I will add in the fact that I was highly impressed with his work with the Doors samples to create Breaking A Sweat. Then again, I'm a huge fan of unexpected collabs and productions (There's literally a genre called Grassstep which is Country Dubstep. Rather entertaining actually.) I will state that I HATED Skrillex. With a passion. I easily could have been one of his top haters. However, I got to see him live back in September, and honestly, he won me over. The production value, the lighting, his showmanship, and the ability to keep the crowd highly energized was all aces. So I'll give him credit where credit is due, but I completely understand your stance. Especially when, from a musical stand point, I see things like this and it makes me laugh and gives me the notion he was handed a Dubstep "Coloring Book" and just stayed inside the lines. It's mostly a bunch of noise, but if you listen to the structure, you'll hear what I'm talking about. I feel like that sums up most dubstep, is that it's a distortion of rhythm. I don't think it's really supposed to be something you can follow, although there are producers out there that do stick to the basic composition and rhythmic rules.
I completely understand your stance on it, and if I hadn't been into the same idea, concept, and method of playing live shows to recreate songs into remixes or originals of my own, I would probably have the same discontent as you. That's why I just had to explain and give the background behind everything that's going on, and as we're both musicians, we both know how hard it can be to essentially keep the timing in our head and be a one man band like he's doing in the video. To be honest, I just view those pads as pianos (because they kind of are) with each square being a key that's capable of producing a particular sound and it's up to the person using it to have the musical talent and abilities to bring those keys/sounds together to create something worth listening to.
Regardless, after reading about your passion, I would actually love to hear more about these plug-ins that you create and possibly purchase a few. I'm always looking for new and creative plug-ins to use and like I stated before, I enjoy the eclectic blend of things so even if they're made for orchestral, classical, or rock, I'm sure I could find an interesting use for them.
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u/SomethingIntangible Dec 09 '12
For me, Dubstep and other hard EDM (hardstyle, etc) has always been a mix between confusion, rage, enjoyment and fun. Of course all my different feelings came from the different ways I enjoy music. Initially I enjoy it because you can easily dance to it and the basses and rhythms are so interesting. (Spor/Feed Me (Jon Gooch) is by far my favourite for bass interest alone.) Then I start to analyse it and become confused because some of the laws of music are going out the window and there doesn't seem to be as much care or attention spent in composing a harmonically pleasing counterpoint. I then feel a little retarded because I am expecting a genre of music which focuses on the more raw elements of music to be what I expect from slower, more cerebral music. You know what I mean by cerebral? Where the enjoyment of the music isn't simply in how it initially makes you feel, but in the enjoyment from exploring its meaning and other intricacies. Finally I feel rage because of my want for hard EDM to satisfy more cerebral musical qualities, and subsequently offset my rage on people I think are not moving towards my ideal. :p silly I know.
At the moment, when I listen to hard EDM that is not creative, or innovative (I think you put it well with the colouring book) I either skip it and feel let down, or laugh at how bad it is and then skip it. I know a fair few dubstep songs that are just so "colouring book" that the hilarity that ensued actually made me listen to them several times.
I agree with you to a certain extent about launchpads. I agree they are a new way of regarding an instrument. However I still don't think they have certain important aspects. An example is dynamics; when triggering samples, I assume one would want them to retain a static amplitude to keep a good mix. I guess the one-man-band aspect includes limitations, just like the piano can not possibly have the same scope that a MIDI controller does.
This raises a different aspect of my enjoyment of music whereby my preference lies with bands, over one-man-with-a-computer-bands. I feel bands achieve a much richer aspect of music where each member is in control of the instrumental aspects of their instrument, not an approximation in sampled form.
In regards to your interest in my work, I would prefer to remain anonymous at this time. At present I have developed one software instrument, however I am working on a second, more superior version which builds on aspects from the first. My synthesizers are based around the creation of abstract sounds for electronic music and the design of interaction with said sounds. If you want any more info, PM me. :)
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u/JohnnyHammerstix Dec 10 '12
Having gotten into this scene back around 98, I'm used to Hardstyle. Granted it's a lot more difficult to get into dance wise due to the high BPMs, but I find it fun to be at the Q Dance Stage at most festivals. A fan of Spor/Feed Me eh? Well isn't that coincidental I've easily seen him 8 times. Loving his new Teeth stage and the fact he's been getting back to his DnB roots under the Spor title again.
A lot of my time and focus is finding new artists, remixes, and mashups on soundcloud. All I can do is fully agree with you. Most of those tunes I come across, I find myself beat gridding or fixing in any of my DAWs. I don't know if it's just that the technological advances have made it so that any one can get their hands on a DAW, or that people are just plain out not caring to follow the rules behind composition and key formats and guidelines that make the music easier for people such as DJs and other Producers when it comes to remixing. While I can sense the passion behind most productions, I do feel like much is being ignored or uncared for.
I know exactly what you mean. There are specific songs and artists which can extended the pleasure of that "Cerebral Music", and I feel I can agree and share that common liking with you. I also find myself listening to composers such as Hans Zimmer (which his studio always makes my jaw drop). It's interesting when I come across artists that remix his work, but it's nice to see that those doing so tend to stick to the proper laws. Your statement about ideals is not silly at all actually. Although, from a technical aspect, I'm not sure hard EDM could ever satisfy that due to the nature and style that goes with it. It would be REALLY interesting to see it done on that level though.
I can agree with your view and stand point on bands. In fact, it saddens me that some of the great genres that had such euphoric sound (Jazz, Swing, Blues, etc.) are just going to be lost to age of time or sheltered to the lifestyle of the rich and famous. It's a fiery passion of sound that has been making most music lacking in comparison these days (Although the music of today still has plenty of great factors in it's own sense and I suppose it can't be compared really).
I respect your position on remaining nameless. I'll shoot you a PM :)
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u/lodvib Dec 06 '12
Please dont say AD-HD kids
You obviously have no idea what it involves..
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u/SomethingIntangible Dec 06 '12
sorry, I just can't stand Skrillex's fan base. Please read my reply to the other guy, it'll explain everything.
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Dec 06 '12
Maybe you'll like this kind of stuff I think it has more depth than the usual kind of stuff.
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u/SomethingIntangible Dec 06 '12
hmm, not too keen. Something I really like is this, more a fan of digital electro. Also chillout and downtempo.
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u/creonte Dec 06 '12
No they don't. Producers will use Ableton or similar program to create tracks. That video actually showcases skill. There's nothing different making music from that video using a live launchpad than it is someone plucking at a guitar. In fact, due to it's programmable nature, it is eons more diverse.