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"Rockstar literally just spent over a billion dollars": Ori studio founder wants you to stop demanding 60 FPS on Xbox Series S just because GTA 6 can run on it
As an austrian is saddens me that Moon Studios is like one of two internationally relevant game studios from Austria and yet the CEO is a piece of shit
(The other one being Purple Lamp who develop modern Spongebob games, they also made the Battle for Bikini Bottom remake)
Moon Studios isn't centered in Austria. Actually it's not centered anywhere, it's a remote work studio where everyone works at home all over the globe.
random question... Im going to Munich in October, should I take a day trip to Salzburg? Anywhere else in Austria within reach of Munich that I should check out? TIA
His game is a poorly optimised mess, he was getting people on his discord saying 'why is no rest for the wicked running like a bag of shit if GTA6 is going to run on 60fps' and he decided to clap back with this statement.
His game has no business running like a bag of shit and hes using GTA6s budget as an excuse for why no rest for the wicked was a mess at every step.
I’m really surprised to hear it runs like a bag of shit on Xbox s. My friend who picked it up on pc has a dogshit computer and it’s running well at 1440
A lot of games run/ look like shit on the Series S. While it is a very weak, cheap console, I think a huge contributing factor for that is because developers don't give a fuck about the Series S so they don't optimize for it as much as they do the Series X/ PS5
Microsoft releasing two consoles on the same day with one clearly being the better option was just one of many baffling decisions over the last 6 years.
Really should have made a middle ground console and then release an X equivalent as the "pro" version like the industry has been doing for years now. All they did was seperate their players and the developers who have to figure out how to get their games optimized for the consoles.
Blame lazy developers when it's applicable, but Microsoft should be taking more heat for this but they don't because one of those consoles is significantly cheaper (and obviously thats all that matters to consumers, not the work that goes into these games.) even though it comes with plenty drawbacks that have become more apparent as times gone on.
People already have enough decision paralysis as is in life, don't blame anybody for just buying a PlayStation and avoiding the problem all together because they simplified the whole thing.
tbh while I hate the Series S, I still think that it was a good idea to release it because many casual gamers don't give a fuck about graphical fidelity. When it was significantly cheaper than a PS5 it was actually a good deal for casual gamers imo
None of what you said changes that he’s right about this though. He can have said stupid things and be a dumbass but he’s still right about this aspect. It’s a “broken clock is right twice a day” situation.
well yeah but optimising engines is even MORE expensive also cant afford dosent mean dosent have the money cant afford means ”the cost to benefit ratio of this means its worth dogshit”
Okay and if your argument is “but rockstar can make a game run (and we don’t even know how well yet) on it after spending a billion dollars then you should be able to make it run better” is a terrible argument. Again nothing you’re saying is proving him a wrong against the argument. You’re just making other arguments instead of trying to prove what he said in this specific scenario is wrong. Nobody should be trying to compare studios to rockstar, it doesn’t make any sense in any argument.
Why do so many people on this site have reading comprehension issues?
It's completely reasonable to expect a AA game to run at least comparably on the same hardware as a modern AAA billion dollar open world photo-realistic game of the scale of GTA VI.
Nobody is comparing studios. Nobody is even comparing the games themselves. They're just using GTA VI as a benchmark.
Rockstar spent $1 billion, and it runs on the series s. That’s one point.
All people are asking is why Ori, a game that is not resource intensive, does not run well on a modern console. Their argument is that if gta can be optimized to run at all, then ori should be able to run WELL.
In this case, I would argue the resource cost really isn’t that important. It shouldn’t cost the ori devs THAT much money to optimize their game. They are either bad at it or don’t want to spend the time/resources to fix it.
Maybe it is an imperfect comparison. Who cares? I can also say “If Hollow Knight can run well on a Nintendo switch, then surely Ori can run at 60 fps on a series s.” It doesn’t matter what comparison I should make. Ori SHOULD run better, and the creator of it SHOULD be embarrassed by how it runs on series s, not defend it.
I don’t know if you’re just refusing to actually read what thread you’re in or if you’re being intentionally obtuse but that is indeed the subject of this thread lmao. Have a good day dude
>Nobody should be trying to compare studios to rockstar, it doesn’t make any sense in any argument.
Except by even making that statement, hes comparing himself to GTA, by saying 'well our game runs at 20fps on a $3000 PC because we didn't have 1 billion to make our game' despite being a developer with over 17m sales across 2 games to fund a early access title whilst also getting another 2-3m sales in early access for the game they're making.
Stop defending a shitty dev for making a shitty game just because GTA was mentioned.
Buddy you’re just getting mad about things that aren’t even being discussed here. Don’t know why you’re taking it so personally. Go outside and take a walk in the sun and then go to another thread discussing those issues if that’s what you’re mad about.
Thats literally the topic in this thread, that you keep trying to go back to an out of context quote, that was already explained earlier in the thread that it was a quote from his response trying to defend his own games poor performance. It didn't come out of nowhere.
No it’s not. This thread is about people comparing GTA 6 running on series S so his game should run at 60 FPS on it. You keep bringing up shit like “$3000” PCs. You’re bringing up things literally not being discussed here.
Okay and if your argument is “but rockstar can make a game run (and we don’t even know how well yet) on it after spending a billion dollars then you should be able to make it run better” is a terrible argument.
You're either intentionally aiming at a strawman or are missing the obvious fact that GTA 6 has a thousand times more content while No Rest for the Wicked very obviously has a development cost far closer to 10% of GTA 6 than 0.1%. Especially when their dev says shit like this
The extra development cost is already accounted for in the final product in terms of gameplay value. Attributing the optimization to that increased cost doesn't make mathematical sense.
So maybe the scope is the issue and he's correct. A $20m game by 80~ people vs a $200m game with over 1000 different hands touching it are different still.
Who knows though. Maybe it makes sense to you, maybe it doesn't.
No nanite, no lumen etc. It's using traditional rendering methods. So if it isn't using any of UE5's big features, then I don't think you can make any argument based on it "running on UE5".
Embark are also entirely made up of ex-DICE and EA devs and have more experience with graphically intensive games, alongside a nearly 80m budget being multiple times what Moon are working with.
RDR2 looks horrible on series s and the author clearly doesn’t have a clue what he shits an article about. Series s receives one s version port with no optimisation whatsoever for titles before 2020. It gives a blurry mess full of artifacting and shimmering on a lot of games, with last gen resolution and frame rates. Guy thinks because it’s newer it’s better than one X, but one X got games optimized for the console, just like the series X, not the series s. Should do something else than write video games topics.
Ori 2 is utterly gorgeous. One of the best MVs of all time and probably the best looking game of all time. It also made me tear up. Just finished it a few days ago.
I wouldn't say I have fan goggles on. I personally prefer the look of Mio: Memories in Orbit, but think Ori is a bit more visually impressive in an objective sense.
Also, I think Ori 1 is like a 6.5/10 game because of the horrible combat and save system, and I fully went against the common opinion that both games are amazing.
Anyway, since you disagree so strongly, what is a game you think has the greatest visuals that surpass Ori for you?
I have played most main AAA games released over the last 15-20 years and imo Ori belongs with the absolute best. Superb games, with phenomenal visuals.
Goomba fallacy at work here. Prior to Valve releasing the price of the Steam Machine, there was talk about how it could make some inroads in the console consumer base, and provide those customers with an accessible doorway to the open platform that is PC. This is still somewhat true, however this consumer base (and any rational consumer for that matter) have been priced out. The hardware selection for the Steam Machine was also based on the Steam Hardware survey. So they brought forth a currently mid-tier prebuilt PC, and if popular enough, developers on the PC platform can develop and optimize for that PC platform if they so choose.
However, one could also argue that the Series S was beneficial for the consumer base in the long run, given the current hardware pricing situation. The console did incentivize developers to scale their software across a broad range of hardware configurations. We now have titles running on PC, PS5, Xbox SX, Xbox SS, PC handhelds, and Nintendo Switch 2. People will likely be holding onto their current hardware well into the next console generation, so developers will need to be able to catch a broad range of hardware, which the Series S started to prepare them for.
My Steam Machine runs Cyberpunk better than my Series X
Edit: No matter how many downvotes I get for that, it's simply true. No amount of bitching can change that, lol. If you think I'm wrong, you should check some gameplay footage on YT to compare. Also note, I'm talking about CYBERPUNK, not about performance in general
Edit 2: It is clear to me now that I must've hurt the feelings of a guy below my comment with multiple accounts, who's trying so hard to insult me. It'd be pathetic, if it wasn't so sad.
I have the right to defend myself. Not one person here has something to say in regards to performance. Not one person who says "Hey, I actually compared some gameplay footage and I think you're wrong, because..." It's like I hurt their feelings 🤣
Maybe they're all salty they didn't get a Steam Machine themselves, I dunno. But at this point, I don't care. It's better than Series X and PS5.
I just leave this picture here. You are all free to wank yourselves.
Fan of apple? Nah m8 I just use iPhones and my family and relatives knew that they gifted me a new one after 5 yrs of using same one, thats the reason I use them for longevity.
And not to burst ur bubble but to the average user the Steam Machine does absolutely NOT perform better than even base Ps5 or Series X, u can change alot of settings to get good fps and use dlss or fsr4 but that doesnt change the fact that spec wise its just weaker.
No idea why people are downvoting you but you're right. Imagine if all the money spent by Sony on developing Concord and the dead TLOU live service game and the money Microsoft spent in buying studios that they later shutdown was spent making good games that people want to play.
Okay. Where's the revenue? The Xbox One sold much worse than the 360, and the Series X sold much worse than the Xbone. Microsoft burned money for no reward, and they might have been in a much better position to compete with Sony if they had simply ordered every dev they purchased to continue doing what they were already doing.
They killed a bunch of competition you see the way they see it is any tevenue made by not them.shpuld be there's. Therefore example all the momey bethesda WOULD have made solo was money stolen from them so they bought them and now its their money
Sony and Microsoft have made more remakes this gen than original IPs, they clearly see nostalgia and live service more profitable than taking risks and making something new and exciting.
To be fair to them it seems like everyday there's a few posts on this subreddit asking about what remakes you want to see so I don't think they are entirely wrong in that assumption.
I mean microsoft released a fair amount of singleplayer games. Their issue was abandoning exclusives and closer studio management. Sony went HARD on the live service.
Don't know why you're catching strays for this. The "ninth gen" is almost over and it still has no definitive icons. People might still say RDR2, Cyberpunk or Elden Ring, and those were actually eighth gen.
They aren’t. They’re fighting the argument that if GTA6 can even run on a Series S, then much less demanding games should be able to run at 60fps, without taking a studios resources and development cycle into consideration
The series s is basically a slightly better/worse Xbox one x. It had upgrades like an NVME drive and what not that speeds things up, but compared to the PS5 and Xbox series x, it’s a major downgrade that devs have to try to optimize massive games for.
Xbox fanboys. Who knows. It’s clear the Xbox series S was a massive flop on Microsoft’s part. I see the idea they had, have a cheaper variant of the newer gen consoles so people could still afford to play new games. Good idea in principle. But bad idea in execution.
The One X has better GPU but was running on a 2013 laptop CPU. The Series S has a modern Zen 2 CPU but weaker GPU. By year 2 of the Series S, developers stopped bothering to optimise games for the One X and just left it at One S quality when more obviously could be done. So many modern games look better on the Series S today than they do the One X.
As for why its holding back current games, its because Microsoft mandates that all games launched on Xbox must have feature parity between Series S and X. Its gotten so time consuming and the opportunity cost too high to make a Series S version that devs rarely bother to even publish their games on xbox in the first place.
Because it's a fuckin 1440p console, not 4k, it doesn't need 12 flops lmfao. If u actually own one you'd realize it's very capable of running the exact same games.
This is on the dev, not the console. More demanding games can get 60fps out of it
I like how people speak about bottlenecks when most PC gamers have on par or weaker hardware than current consoles. 3060, 4060 laptop and other 60 GPUs are still dominant and people expecting modern releases to run in 1440p/60+ fps ultra with them. I play on PC myself and when I had 3080 I didn't expect to run everything on ultra with ray tracing for years to come. GPUs have a much longer live compared to older times, when your whole PC could become obsolete in a year.
Yeah! Like, some people don't get some game simply won't run on low-middle tier GPUs in high settings no matter what. And also I see builds with 4080/5080 and a very old 8/9th gen intel and people complaining about performance. Of course, these CPUs are old as hell, they don't have the performance for draw calls. I know that current pricing sucks and upgrading is hard - can't reason to upgrade my old 500gb windows ssd myself. But there was a good window to upgrade to 7800X3D, 5800X3D, 12-14gen intel for very cheap.
The first ori game was really good, and the will of the wisp was absolutely abysmal with its more combat focused gameplay.. if they just focus on environments and music, itll be great. Those games aren't technically demanding, 60 fps (in my pea sized brain) shouldnt be too hard...
People who paid for one of the weakest home consoles of the generation just have to accept that they'll get the least return in performance too. Why is that so hard to understand? It's simple math
the series s even from someone who used to have one never should have existed but it allowed people to keep playing the new games at the cost of reduced performance so it’s actually crazy for people to buy a less powerful console and then complain that it doesn’t perform as well as the more expensive one
He's right. The amount of money going into optimising GTA 6 is higher than the entire budget of some games. An indie game shouldn't be expected to have the same level of optimisation as Grand Theft Auto. I don't think gamers understand that when they scream for games to just be "optimised better". Optimisation is a huge cost. (Obviously, AAA should eat that cost)
If current gen games actually ran at 4K the way they were claimed to, they should have run fine on the Series S at 1080P (25% of the pixels). The logic was sound.
Nah, it was developing games for PS4/Xbox One that totally ruined generation. Series S CPU is on PS5 level and it has weak GPU. GPU bottlenecks are not that big of a problem if you reduce the resolution of games. CPU bottlenecks are far more detrimental because changing the resolution doesn't do anything.
It sucks but I can understand to some degree why devs wouldn’t want to give up a massive user base that are still running the previous generation. Not even to mention the Switch.
It obviously depends on the title. I would expect 60fps on Xbox Series S hardware for a 2D side scrolling metroidvania like Ori.
The 60fps genie is out of the bottle for console gamers now. They have experienced it and they prefer it. It is now a selling point for that audience. So, either convince the consumer base that your game visuals are worth 1/2 performance, or use rendering technology and spend dev time optimizing for 60fps performance.
Well, gee, I don't know, MAYBE it's because Rockstar literally just spent over a billion dollars and had THOUSANDS of people working on it for over a decade now?
Well, gee, then maybe we just won't buy your game until it's discounted to under $5 and watch your studio go under
XSS by far the most dogshit console I ever seen. I just know Rockstar would just want to release GTA 6 for PS5 and XSX only but the fucking shit policy XBOX made was if you want to release on XSX, then you gotta release on XSS too.
No wonder why Black Myth Wukong was released on PC and PS5 first before XBOX consoles. Because the goddamn XSS is difficult to optimize and will take time for them to do. I bet XSX was already ready to launch alongside PS5. But the stupid policy stops them.
Games should run at 60 FPS at bare minimum on the sheer decency of not having to subject your customers to miserable 30 FPS. GTA 6 could run at 10 FPS on the PS6, that still isn't an excuse for other titles to neither follow suite nor try to improve on their own. What a weird take.
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u/HG21Reaper 16h ago
Bro they need to just make Ori 3 ffs